. . .in drinking death.

Rider University Dean of Students Was Among Those Indicted on Friday

Quote :

"TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- Two Rider University officials, including the dean of students, and three students were indicted Friday in the death of a freshman after a drinking binge at a campus fraternity house. The school dissolved the Phi Kappa Tau chapter Friday, and authorities said the charges should send a message to students and administrators alike."

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=3445378&page=1

This is just about the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever seen! This is fucking ridiculous! I hope this stupid fucking DA gets Nifong-ed over this shit, the overzealous motherfucker! What happened to personal responsibility in America?

PS: You fraternity members should be pissed, too--unless you agree with these numbers:

Quote :

"One study reports that 75 percent of male fraternity members are binge drinkers, compared to 45 percent of other male students."

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3134239n

[Edited on August 5, 2007 at 5:45 AM. Reason : .]

8/5/2007 5:26:15 AM

Seriously, if this is how far "acceptable behavior" for DAs has come, what's preventing people from going over their heads and having higher officials charging them with not being 'vigilant' enough in their prosecution and "prevention" policies?

8/5/2007 7:40:02 AM

hmmm, a hooksaw thread I can agree with, must be a lukewarm day in hell.

8/5/2007 2:05:37 PM

^ Many of you'd probably be surprised at how much we agree on. In any event, yeah, this shit's fucked up.

8/5/2007 2:23:53 PM

this is one of those things that doesnt really matter to me

[Edited on August 5, 2007 at 2:51 PM. Reason : like one of those issues i'd hear on the news and just say "whatever" or something]

8/5/2007 2:51:19 PM

^Thank you for your contribution.

And yeah, maybe I agree with hooksaw on some things, but rarely when it's posted here on TWW.

8/5/2007 4:45:15 PM

^^ why's that?

8/5/2007 4:58:04 PM

i dont really care for any alcohol related news honestly

now of course thats not EVERY alcohol related story, but i could care less about stuff like this(i'd rather hear about a celebrity driving drunk than some people getting sued cause some guy drank too much)

like who gives a fuck about some lawyers suing some people over drinking...there are more important things to worry about, but thats just me and why i say i could care less for stories like these

anyways...carry on thread...

8/5/2007 5:31:33 PM

^ This story is less about alcohol and more about government overreach, dnl. That's why it's important.

8/5/2007 9:17:49 PM

maybe the DA is right, the dean is supposed to monitor these fraternaties, and if they had a history of drunken driivng without punishmen then he should be fired

8/5/2007 10:51:11 PM

^ You're fucking kidding, right? First, what's the dean supposed to do, be physically present at every fraternity, sorority, and other on-campus area where students could possibly consume alcohol? There was a law and a policy against what this stupid freshman did, but he did it anyway! How in hell is that the dean's fault or anybody else's fault?

Second, if you had bothered to read the article I posted--or even the thread title--you would have seen that firing is not the issue here. The Trenton DA has INDICTED two Rider University officials and three students for the death of this kid, for alcohol that he put down his own throat. These indictments are a truckload of horseshit and there are no two ways about it!

[Edited on August 5, 2007 at 11:03 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2007 11:01:48 PM

Get pissed.

8/5/2007 11:04:37 PM

you guys go to the police state that is ncsu

and you wonder why the administration here is so strict about things like this

and this is exactly the reason why

nc state's going to cover themselves whenever possible to protect the university, even if that means violating the rights of the students and taking the "fun" out of the college experience

8/5/2007 11:10:10 PM

^ It's true. But the students don't raise enough hell about their traditions being taken away.

8/5/2007 11:12:38 PM

^ not to mention Constitutionally "protected" rights

Quote :

"i dont really care for any alcohol related news honestly"

the fact that it's alcohol related is just incidental.

that's not at all the point of the story.

8/5/2007 11:27:37 PM

Quote :

"What happened to personal responsibility in America? "

lawyers happened

8/6/2007 12:04:10 AM

Quote :

"hmmm, a hooksaw thread I can agree with, must be a lukewarm day in hell."

this bit right here is worth the daily admission price, alone:

Quote :

"Nifonged"

[Edited on August 6, 2007 at 2:07 AM. Reason : ]

8/6/2007 2:06:13 AM

after living in america the past 7 years i could care less about "government overreach"

especially if its only being discussed because alcohol

8/6/2007 2:54:00 AM

the fact that it's alcohol related is more or less a trivial footnote, not at all central to the greater concerns surrounding the issue.

Quote :

"after living in america the past 7 years i could care less about "government overreach""

??

after living in america for the past 7 years, how could you not be more concerned than ever about "government overreach"?

8/6/2007 3:02:49 AM

i guess the bush administration made me immune to government overreach

seriously how is this a big deal? a few people are being sued over some alcohol related deaths...i say that to myself and think "big deal"....maybe its because i dont have to worry about it, idk

8/6/2007 3:04:26 AM

^ These are not civil cases, dnl, they are criminal cases. These people aren't being sued--yet. Ada Badgley, 31, the university’s director of Greek life; Anthony Campbell, 51, the dean of students; Adriano DiDonato, 22, a student who was also the residence director and house master of the Phi Kappa Tau fraternity house; Dominic Olsen, 21, pledge master of Spring 2007 Phi Kappa Tau pledge class; and Michael J. Torney, 21, the chapter president have been indicted on criminal charges of "aggravated hazing" and are facing maximum penalties of 18 months in prison and fines of up to $10,000.

Are you really this thick or are you just tying to be thick about this?

[Edited on August 6, 2007 at 8:57 AM. Reason : .]

8/6/2007 8:56:26 AM

Well the three frat boys do deserve to be charged with aggravated hazing. Seems logical to me. If they said, you have to do what we say to join our frat, and then told them to drink a bottle of vodka.... well that is hazing and they are fucked. (I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that is probably what occurred)

And if there is a culture of underage drinking/hazing at a college and a blind eye is turned, that is negligent. I have no clue about Rider, maybe the administration did nothing to enforce the law.

8/6/2007 9:34:54 AM

I can see the chapter president and house manager getting in trouble. If they were present. Tis stupid if you believe that the dean of students is at fault. I am just sick of stupid people blaming their problems and mistakes on others. Do I feel sorry for the kid and family I sure do. But he drank it all on his own and wasn't secure enough to say no or to pick better friends.

8/6/2007 9:35:51 AM

^^ Isn't that position more about your obvious dislike for "frat boys"?

8/6/2007 10:49:16 AM

You realize that a DA doesn't indict people, a grand jury does. So before we jump on the OMG NIFONG scare wagon, wait for the facts to come out.

8/6/2007 11:44:07 AM

must be an election issue for the current DA

everyone will be getting sued as well

so lawyers for criminal defense and civil defense will get paid - as long as the lawyers win its all good.

Quote :

"You realize that a DA doesn't indict people, a grand jury does. So before we jump on the OMG NIFONG scare wagon, wait for the facts to come out."

true - but you can get a grand jury to indict a can of tomato soup if you needed to....
its really just a formality (pointless). The only "use" for a GJ is to lock witnesses into testimony prior to the trial (use to impeach if they change their story on the stand).

8/6/2007 1:45:54 PM

^^ Man, please STFU! A DA takes the information from law enforcement and decides whether to present the case to a grand jury. Now why don't you stop acting like you have some special knowledge and address the topic, okay?

8/6/2007 4:52:40 PM

Fact of the matter is the DA doesn't indict someone. A Grand Jury does. If the evidence is not there and indictment does not come down (ie Jean Bennet Ramsey case).

Now quit engaging in a regime of obfuscation. We don't know what the Administrators were charged with or the situation that lead up to the charges being filed.

8/6/2007 4:54:41 PM

^ WTF are you talking about? You are wrong, as usual. Can you read?

According to the reports that I posted, the individuals--who were not all administrators--have been charged with "aggravated hazing." And the point is not who does the indicting but that indictments were brought. Now stop splitting hairs and address the fucking issue or get out of the thread.

God damn! You're pulling a dnl on this one.

[Edited on August 6, 2007 at 5:08 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2007 5:04:29 PM

^ you mean the NEWS reports?????


those are unlikely to be the full story - thats probably what nutsmakr is referring to

8/6/2007 5:33:19 PM

^ Um. . .I never said that the articles were the "full story"--the reports do include the charges, though, which he didn't bother to read even though he accused me of "obfuscation." I doubt that the news agencies involved made up the charges in question, which are public record.





[Edited on August 6, 2007 at 5:43 PM. Reason : .]

8/6/2007 5:40:15 PM

I read the article you initially posted. But without any of the evidence being listed in the article you jumped on the niffong bandwagon. That's the obfuscation I'm talking about.

For someone who claims to have been an LEO you are awfully ignorant of the criminal justice system. Grand juries just don't indict without some sort of evidence. Whether or not that evidence will carry the day is another matter, but I would suggest that before you abuse your keyboard anymore you wait for the facts to come out.

Quote :

"which are public record."

a majority of the time they are not easily accessible.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 10:04 AM. Reason : .]

8/7/2007 10:04:05 AM

^ Who the fuck is "niffong"? And police reports of charges are easily obtained.

8/7/2007 12:09:33 PM

8/7/2007 12:21:13 PM

^^In many places you can only get the report if you go to the court house to get them. Furthermore, much of the stuff brought up before a grand jury are not in police reports. DAs don't rely solely on the police reports. they have their own investigators.

So why don't we wait for the evidence before we say the DA is creating false charges on these people.

Who knows. Maybe the Dean of Students was present, maybe he knew about it, maybe he condoned it. We don't know all the information about it right now.

For being an adult, you sure have the mental reasoning of a retarded 5 year old.

8/7/2007 12:44:21 PM

^ Man, you are fucking stupid, and you call other people "retarded" to hide your own stupidity. First, hell's bells! I wouldn't want anybody to have to walk his or her fat ass to the courthouse to get a copy of the bill of indictment. How inconvenient!

Second, I never said the charges had to be brought by police, and everyone knows that DAs sometimes use their own investigators. Could you state the obvious a little more?

Third, why don't we call these charges what they are for the most part: fucking ridiculous. Maybe the dean was not present, which is very likely the case, and did not condone the illegal activities in question, which is very likely the case. Ever heard of the presumption of innocence, asshole? And whether these people knew about this situation or not is irrelevant to me--I am objecting to these bullshit charges that fly in the face of personal responsibility.

Fourth, piss off. If there's any retardation here, you are the one suffering from it. Now go fetch; your superiors at the GA need their hot dogs for lunch.

8/7/2007 1:47:17 PM

Quote :

"whether these people knew about this situation or not is irrelevant to me"

Ok, it is pretty fucking relevant. A Dean of Students is suppose to look after the welfare of the student body. If he knew there was dangerous hazing going on and did nothing to try and stop it, then he is shirking his responsibility to the student body by not doing something to stop it. So if he was informed that there was going to be a weekend of student hazing and did nothing to keep tabs on it, that is pretty fucking negligent on his part.

8/7/2007 1:57:44 PM

How can you say the charges are bullshit if you don't know all the facts behind them? And of course I'm going to jump into my quick travel machine to go to the courthouse in Trenton New Jersey so I can have a copy of the police report.

You are the one that has jumped to a conclusion without knowing all the facts and yet I'm the close-minded one?

Come on Special-Ed. Dan. Get with the program.

Quote :

"Now go fetch; your superiors at the GA need their hot dogs for lunch."

Come on Mr. Intelligent. If you were that smart, you'd know the General Assembly is in Recess until Next May.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2007 2:21:24 PM

1. The drinking by this stupid freshman was illegal.

2. The drinking was against university policy.

3. The drinking was against Phi Kappa Tau policy.

4. The dean did not pour the alcohol down the guy's throat.

5. The guy poured the alcohol down his own 18-year-old throat.

Believe it or not, I, too, was once 18. And I was smart enough to know that if I drank too much, I might die. If I had drank too much and died, I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted my death blamed on anyone else. In addition, would you have underage college students on 24-hour surveillance so that they don't hurt themselves? Be careful what you wish for.

New Jersey law and Rider University alcohol policy:

http://www.rider.edu/files/Greek_Alcohol_Policy.pdf

Phi Kappa Tau alcohol policy:

http://www.phikappatau.org:81/about/faq/faq.asp#20

^ NB: Duh! I didn't post lawmakers, I posted your "superiors," which is everybody else.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 2:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/7/2007 2:37:05 PM

I'm mad at myself that Hooksaw is actually of the same opinion as me on this

8/7/2007 2:48:17 PM

Quote :

"4. The dean did not pour the alcohol down the guy's throat."

That doesn't mean that the Dean couldn't have violated a law on the subject

Quote :

"Believe it or not, I, too, was once 18. And I was smart enough to know that if I drank too much, I might die. If I had drank too much and died, I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted my death blamed on anyone else. In addition, would you have underage college students on 24-hour surveillance so that they don't hurt themselves? Be careful what you wish for."

You don't know what the hell happened in the situation. Quit acting like you were there and you know precisely what it was that happened.

Oh, and I have one superior Baldylocks (my legislator).



[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 3:01 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2007 3:01:07 PM

Police reports - not public record (generally)
Criminal charges - public record

Grand Jury - Nustmackr, ever appeared before one? Do you know how they work - its a standing joke in law enforcement that you could indict a ham sandwich before the GJ (I just prefer to use 'canned tomato soup').

I know w/ federal GJ's that it is so rare that a true bill isn't returned, that the AUSA assigned to a case were a TB isn't received has to do some SERIOUS 'splaining all the way to the AG's office (ie, less than a handful nationwide per year fail to get a TB). I don't know if actual numbers are public record, but thats pretty amazing considering all the GJ's nationwide - I'm personally unaware of a case that hasn't gotten an indictment, mine or anyone else's.

So now, smartass - illuminate us on how GJ's work, what can be presented, who can be present, what can be done w/ the testimony, what cannot be done with the testimony... and why have some states done away w/ the GJ all together for state charges.

Quote :

"Furthermore, much of the stuff brought up before a grand jury are not in police reports"

and why is that smart guy?

8/7/2007 3:05:37 PM

Quote :

"and why is that smart guy? "

I was merely stating that the DA's office does investigations after the police reports are turned over to the DAs office and the DAs office will more than likely turn up evidence that wasn't in the police report and present it to a grand jury.

Quote :

"So now, smartass - illuminate us on how GJ's work, what can be presented, who can be present, what can be done w/ the testimony, what cannot be done with the testimony... and why have some states done away w/ the GJ all together for state charges."

Yes wiseguy, I know that only the State gets to provide evidence, I know that no counter evidence is provided. I know the ins and outs. Likewise, evidence from a grand jury can later be thrown out in trial. So instead of getting high and mighty about my statement when I said much of the stuff in grand jury evidence does not come from a police report I suggest you calm down and relax.

As for a grand jury that didn't return an indictment, look no further than the Jean Bennet Ramsey Case.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 3:17 PM. Reason : . ]

8/7/2007 3:13:58 PM

You, I, and Hooksaw do not have the evidence of what happened, etc. So it is premature for us to claim someone is innocent or guilty of the charges. I'm suggesting we take a wait and see route, where as Hooksaw has automatically jumped to innocence.

8/7/2007 3:19:46 PM

^^ Translation:

Quote :

"I was merely splitting hairs concerning the semantics of this notion that I may not have bothered to educate myself about the issues in question and that I likely have no direct knowledge of those issues, and I will continue to do so--perhaps--considering the possible introduction of as yet unknown mitigating factors."

Yeah, you work at the GA.

^ You are a fucking idiot! I don't give a fuck about "innocence." I have been crystal clear: I am against these charges being brought--period.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2007 3:25:46 PM

Quote :

"^ You are a fucking idiot! I don't give a fuck about "innocence." I have been crystal clear: I am against these charges being brought--period. "

What if the administrators were present at the party? What if the administrators had a hand in purchasing the alcohol. We don't know what hand they played, so it is entirely premature to be against the charges or to profess their innocence.

You have to be the most retarded person ever.

[Edited on August 7, 2007 at 3:35 PM. Reason : .]

8/7/2007 3:34:56 PM

^ What if they weren't? What if they didn't? And it wouldn't matter to me anyway (see my previous post).

Quote :

"1. The drinking by this stupid freshman was illegal. 2. The drinking was against university policy. 3. The drinking was against Phi Kappa Tau policy. 4. The dean did not pour the alcohol down the guy's throat. 5. The guy poured the alcohol down his own 18-year-old throat. Believe it or not, I, too, was once 18. And I was smart enough to know that if I drank too much, I might die. If I had drank too much and died, I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted my death blamed on anyone else. In addition, would you have underage college students on 24-hour surveillance so that they don't hurt themselves? Be careful what you wish for. New Jersey law and Rider University alcohol policy: http://www.rider.edu/files/Greek_Alcohol_Policy.pdf Phi Kappa Tau alcohol policy: http://www.phikappatau.org:81/about/faq/faq.asp#20"

BTW, something's either premature or it isn't--"entirely premature" (sic). Who's the retard again? STFU.

8/7/2007 4:04:14 PM

look, baldsaw has gone to the grammar argument again.

here is a hypothetical for you mongoloidsaw

Person X is a felon

Person Y knows they are a felon

Person Y gives person X a gun

Should Person Y be charge with crimes Person X committed with the gun Person Y gave Person X?

8/7/2007 4:07:32 PM

^ First, this is nothing more than sophistry. And the sentence should read Person Y knows that Person X is a felon, not "Person Y knows they are a felon" (sic). Is "Person X" more than one person?

Second, this proves that you have never met me, as you have claimed here. If you had, you would know that I am not bald--not even close. QED.

Third, "Hey, guys, there's a dean at the party! Now I can drink myself to death and blame it on him. PROFIT!" STFU.

8/7/2007 4:39:50 PM

Quote :

"For someone who claims to have been an LEO you are awfully ignorant of the criminal justice system."

Quote :

"So instead of getting high and mighty about my statement when I said much of the stuff in grand jury evidence does not come from a police report I suggest you calm down and relax. "

gg, you both win

oh wait, never mind - only the lawyers win, so if you are a lawyer you win

8/7/2007 8:37:37 PM