http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8RIRI600&show_article=1

I did a search on the front page for 'salt' and 'water' and didnt find any hits. If it has already been posted, sorry.

This sounds pretty amazing....

9/11/2007 2:21:38 PM

damn

9/11/2007 2:28:08 PM

I could have sworn I read something similar to this a few months ago. So what is the "exhaust" byproduct from this? Hydrogen?

9/11/2007 2:32:28 PM

i guess my question is

how much power is required to power the radio waves?

9/11/2007 2:34:39 PM

Quote :

"Seeing it burn gives me the chills."

haha

9/11/2007 2:39:49 PM

Quote :

"I could have sworn I read something similar to this a few months ago. So what is the "exhaust" byproduct from this? Hydrogen?"

Cyanide

9/11/2007 2:43:04 PM

yeah, this was in the Lounge or TSB a while ago. i think there was a link to a local TV Station that picked up on the story and butchered the actual science.

the main question is how much energy is needed to generate the radio waves to activate the salt-water vs. how much energy you would get out of the reaction. The article (and the news report) implies that this is "free energy" because we have all the salt water we could ever want, but it does not address how much or from where the power to start the reaction is needed.

9/11/2007 2:53:36 PM

Quote :

"There is no amount of money that can buy me off."

Hopefully he keeps that attitude. I can only imagine the offers he'll get.

9/11/2007 2:57:36 PM

^Yea, his comment is loosely translated as, "The offers so far do not satisfy me, go higher!"

9/11/2007 3:15:35 PM

How about the

"I need foolish investors to buy my snake oil"


So basically hes doing elecrolysis using radio waves, but instead of storing the released hydrogen and oxygen its instantly igniting because of the RF.

This may also be warming the water which boosts the efficency (the higher the temperature of the water the more efficenet elecrolysis)

Also note when doign standard elecrolysis sodium (salt) is very often used.

Which means hes gatta be pumping a FUCKLOAD of rf power into that, which means its efficency is probably low.

Nothing really to see here guys except a bunch of idiot reporters doing a drive by on an over excited scientist (notice how it says he was reserchign cancer) who is willing to take peoples money




[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : dd]

9/11/2007 3:17:40 PM

Yes this is old,

Yes it's not viable because the RF input power is insane,

Yes it's still cool anyway

9/11/2007 3:36:02 PM

Honestly,

I bet if you microwaved salt water long enough you mgiht get a flame... If you had a boss microwave.

9/11/2007 3:42:27 PM

^^forget about the RF for a second.

it is not viable because the fuel input is water... and the output is water. it therefore contains exactly as much energy as it started out with, i.e. the water outputs no energy whatsoever. the entirety of the heat output is a result of the energy input.

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 3:44 PM. Reason : ]

9/11/2007 3:44:42 PM

dumb question, then:

does the salt simply speed up the process by increasing conductivity or does it improve the system in any way?

i only took physics for dummies and organic while at state...best classes of my life, but very simplistic

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 4:00 PM. Reason : .]

9/11/2007 3:53:01 PM

^^ .... i don't think so
The input is RF Waves + Water. The output is Energy (Hydrogen being burned) + Oxygen (released from the burned H2)
The question is: how much RF is needed to start the reaction vs. how much energy is released from the burning H2.

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 3:53 PM. Reason : ./]

9/11/2007 3:53:35 PM

Last I heard, water cracking is more energy-costly than burning hydrogen is energy-producing. A process that cracked water for less energy than was produced in burning the resulting hydrogen would kind of be the ultimate energy source.

Even if this were a more efficient means of cracking water, I'm pretty sure he still hasn't overcome the fact that bond energies are what they are.

9/11/2007 4:01:39 PM

All this arguing applies to the possibility of using this as an energy source, right?


I thought this dude wanted to sure cure cancer. Seems like energy input/output wouldn't matter for that application.

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 4:10 PM. Reason : sure != cure]

9/11/2007 4:04:54 PM

Yes, and true

9/11/2007 4:06:52 PM

"All" he needs is a delivery method. They need to figure out how to target just cancer cells with this thing.




What kind of award goes to a guy that cures cancer? lol

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 4:13 PM. Reason : lol]

9/11/2007 4:13:46 PM

Hes heating the water, which using microwaves you can do to very high temperature. (increases efficency of electorlysis)

The Salt (sodium) incrases the conductivity of the water

The water breaks into hydrogen and oxygen, which burn and create....Water (the exact same amount you started with)

This may be a way to break water into hydrogen cheaper than current methods (right now I beleive the most effeective method is thorugh high temperature electroylsis)

RF can be tuned to heat certain items (microwaves are very good at heating H20)

However,

You need more power to break the H20 bond than you get re combining it becuase of losses (nothing is 100% efficent)

Frankly i would be suprised if this was 10-15 percent.

Meaning that if you use 1000 watts or RF energy, the resulting fire if powering a 100% efficent heat engine (which dosnt exist) would produce 100watts of power

there isnt anythign amazing here folks, it looks cool. The reason why no compaines are jumping on thsi shit isnt to repress the idea, its because there are better ways.

[Edited on September 11, 2007 at 4:15 PM. Reason : dd]

9/11/2007 4:14:59 PM

Quote :

"there isnt anythign amazing here folks, it looks cool. "

Would you say that about the flip-side of this research, too? The cancer part.

9/11/2007 4:21:15 PM

Quote :

"^^ .... i don't think so The input is RF Waves + Water. The output is Energy (Hydrogen being burned) + Oxygen (released from the burned H2) The question is: how much RF is needed to start the reaction vs. how much energy is released from the burning H2."

You don't understand the process.

• He's using radiolysis to break the chemical bond between hydrogen and oxygen, producing H⁺, H₂, O₂, and HO^- (hydroxyl). the type of radical produced in each interaction depends on the amount of energy absorbed by the water molecule
• The RF also imparts energy on the radicals (i.e. makes them hot)
• The hot particles are to energetic to recombine (i.e. they are too hot to burn). As they release energy to their surroundings the radicals recombine into water: 2 H₂ + O₂   > 2 H₂O (the fire). The H⁺ and HO^- radicals recombine into water as well (though this doesn't contribute substantially to the fire as the reaction releases little energy).

9/11/2007 5:15:14 PM

There is salt in the water, perhaps this has something to do with it, not just the fact that it's H20.

9/11/2007 8:34:13 PM

The sea salt that exists in the water is dissolved, meaning the ions composing the salt are dissociated (instead of NaCl, you have sodium ions and chlorine ions floating around.

Sea salt also contains chlorides of potassium, calcium, and magnesium (a very small part). When the water is removed, you'll be left with salt crystals. While the other ions make the formation of other compounds possible, the reactions will absorb energy rather than give it off.

9/11/2007 9:57:09 PM

Graniteballs,

I dont see how this technology is applicable to cancer research.

My guess is the researcher was trying to find some RF that specifically acted on cancer cells.

He probalby manged to get this effect because he blasted some saline (which is baiscally salt water) with the right RF frequency that the water heated up to the point that it started breaking down the h20 ^process above. and then ignted.

He said O wow water caught fire this is amazing, and called the news crew before he contacted a chemist who could probably tell him what the hell was going on.

The news crew probalby picked up the story pressed it up, and then rolled it out, which was picked up by the ap.

The guy who made the Discovery probably has enough venture capital fowling at him from retards that he will continue to promote his "invention" because he might actuallyb e able to use the money towards cancer research

Cancer research is worth funding.

[Edited on September 12, 2007 at 10:13 AM. Reason : dd]

9/12/2007 10:09:10 AM

Since when was generating RF waves an energy expensive proposition?

I

9/12/2007 11:37:54 AM

Very expensive apparently, looked into it more and I agree with Noen's sentiment.

9/12/2007 1:11:08 PM

Quote :

"i guess my question is how much power is required to power the radio waves?"

Between 200 and 600 Watts, according to an image from a local news video.

9/12/2007 8:59:54 PM

Anyone find it interesting that whatever radio frequency he's using isn't imparting much energy to his hand? If it were radar frequencies, or most microwaves, his hand would be more than a little warm after a few seconds when in a field of hundred of watts.

12/10/2007 4:22:05 AM

i say no.

12/10/2007 5:05:56 AM

RADIO WAVES ARE NOT EXPENSIVE TO GENERATE

WE CAN JUST PUT THE GLASS OF WATER NEXT TO A RADIO

BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF RADIO WAVES OVER THERE

TO GO INTO THE ANTENNA

12/10/2007 7:51:19 AM

I STILL SAY NO, WANNA FIGHT ABOUT IT?!?1!?!?1!?

12/10/2007 8:19:30 AM

Quote :

"You need more power to break the H20 bond than you get re combining it becuase of losses (nothing is 100% efficent)"

it always takes more energy (in any form) to break bonds than to make them.

12/10/2007 8:56:03 AM