I am sick of seeing what looks like lousy crowds on TV (I live out of state, or I would be there). It's pretty disappointing when you have so many donors, especially companies tieing up the lower level sideline seats that only get used for big games. This pushes our attendance way down. Worse yet, since the Gale Force Nazis won't let people move down from the upper deck to fill vacant seats (unlike almost every school in the country), the situation looks even worse on TV. I hate seeing State play on TV and it looks like a Miami game, even if the game is sold out and the upper deck is full.

Several things need to happen:

1) We realize not everyone can make every game. If you are not going to use your tickets, make sure they get used by a State fan or community group, even if you give them away...especially if you have lower level seats.

2) NC State Athletics, it's time to quit running one of the worst game management operations in the country. Relax some of the rules on moving down to the upper deck to fill empty seats. Every other school has realized it is better to fill the lower level to look better on TV, rather than keep everyone in their "assigned seats". And hey, you would even provide a better game experience for the players and fans!

*It is time to quit playing the "we don't employ the event staff" card. Assert more control, or ditch the Gale Force folks.

3) State could push a campaign to facilitate season ticket holders giving their tickets to underpriveledged kids, etc.

11/16/2007 9:17:19 AM

it'd be nice, but it ain't gonna happen

11/16/2007 9:25:38 AM

its a nice idea in theory, but in reality, it wont work. you can't just give someone else a seat that someone paid for.

are there any statistics as far as how many corporate LTRs there actually are? is that really the problem? ...or is it just an easy scapegoat?

11/16/2007 9:29:41 AM

i think they should let the upperdeck people move down in the second half if people are not going to show up for the games

11/16/2007 9:32:53 AM

i like the idea, but it would be chaos to enforce. imagine people running down to be the first to get to the lower sections. and how do you know if a person isnt there, or is actually just up getting a drink or going to the bathroom? you simply can't say "you must be in your seat at 19:00 in the second half or you will lose it"

the only games ive been to that you can really do this are games that arent even close to selling out (orioles games for example). ive never seen it done at an event that has sold out or is close to selling out.

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 9:36 AM. Reason : d]

11/16/2007 9:36:09 AM

Quote :

"it'd be nice, but it ain't gonna happen"

11/16/2007 9:38:15 AM

newsflash: the wolfpack athletics administration is mediocre

11/16/2007 9:42:59 AM

^^^It works at plenty of places. I've even heard the PA announcer invite people to move down at Wake games, for example. If you happen to show up late for the game and/or someone is in your seat after coming back from the bathroom, you tell them that they are in your seat/show them your ticket. There is no need to treat everyone like a social misfit.

11/16/2007 9:46:30 AM

what schools allow the lower seats to be filled like that?

(i've got season tickets anyhow, but tha'd be much more of an incentive for people to buy them knowing that a lot of season ticket holders in the lower seats aren't gonna make it to every game, and bc of that there's the possibility to get a much better seat)

11/16/2007 9:47:31 AM

^I already gave the example of Wake, because I've been to plenty of their games. I have been to a few games at other locations, and never had the issue of high-strung ushers barricading the entrances. Ushers should only need to do anything if you can't find your seat, or if someone won't move from your seat.


Of course, a week or two ago some angry woman usher insisted to see my ticket for the corner of the upper deck even though I had already been through there, and had two full beers in my hands. She didn't appreciate my smartass response of "Yeah, I'm sneaking into the worst seats in the arena." So NCSU isn't alone in bad game management, but you expect that kind of philosophy more at a pro event (is it any coincidence that our event staff is borrowed from a pro hockey team?).

11/16/2007 9:56:38 AM

again, are there any numbers on how many corporate LTRs there really are?

11/16/2007 9:59:15 AM

I'm not aware or athletics tracking corporate LTRs differently than individuals. It is well known that our attendance issues are particularly prominent among sideline seats, where you have the higher paying donors with many corporate LTRs. I can't give you a breakdown of what the split is, and am skeptical of whether the WPC is willing or able to provide that information.

Plus, where do you draw the distinction between a company that has the seats versus an individual that gets them primarily to entertain clients? I'm aware that this is anecdotal, if for no other reason that the data is not readily available. Can we agree that that there is at least a strong correlation between the empty sideline seats and where corporate LTRs and higher paying donor LTRs are--and I agree the blame is shared? Don't get too hung up on the thread title...

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 10:08 AM. Reason : .]

11/16/2007 10:05:23 AM

I have an easier time moving up at yankees games....unbelievable.

11/16/2007 10:09:29 AM

i guess what im trying to get at, is that is it really corporate LTRs that are a problem? or is it just a lot of fans in general dont care about weak OOC games? somethings going on, but i wouldnt be quick to just blame a certain group without really understanding the situation.

11/16/2007 10:10:35 AM

adam gold was whining about this for like forty five minutes this morning

11/16/2007 10:13:29 AM

well, when you are reporting sellouts and it looks damn near half empty, something is up... it doesnt matter if it is lazy season ticket holders who don't want OOC games or corporate LTRs, the solution is let people move down at halftime if they want.

When I was a student, it would piss me off to see the lower endzone seats half full and I got stuck with section 308 so I would walk down at halftime. Alot of times, if you pick the right security person, you can walk by without a ticket if you act like you belong.

11/16/2007 10:19:33 AM

This is the same thing that has happened in football with our new Red Zone drive apparently because those seats are always half full at every football game.

I support this thread 100% but how could these things be accomplished?

Last night there was 14,000 attendance which if I am correct is almost exactly what the lower 2 levels hold. That would have been a nice comfy crowd.

11/16/2007 12:28:22 PM

it definitely works at Duke football games. You can sit anywhere you want there, even on the 50 because that place usually isn't even half full unless a team like us, va. tech, or clemson is playing b/c they travel so well

11/16/2007 1:54:05 PM

i think this thread gets made after every game.

11/16/2007 2:12:11 PM

^^^ there were only 12,000 in attendance last night

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 2:28 PM. Reason : english, i speak it]

11/16/2007 2:22:55 PM

Quote :

""Yeah, I'm sneaking into the worst seats in the arena.""

LOL

11/16/2007 2:28:11 PM

what they really need to have is a online ticket system kinda like the student one. If people know they cant use the tickets, then they should be able to release them to the general public. They should be able to do this all the way up til halftime, where all they would need to do is go online and let the RBC center know that they will not be using them and feel free to just hand them out.

Think how awesome it would be if people could pick up any unused tickets at the RBC center right before the game for free. The place would fill out a LOT more.

11/16/2007 3:21:51 PM

i don't know about for free.. but that would work if you add in the original ticket price


they do this with the Hurricanes where you can at least send them to someone online and they can get in with the ticket they print from online, and i think you can sell them too..

this wouldn't work until they start putting barcodes on the tickets though.

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 4:07 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on November 16, 2007 at 4:08 PM. Reason : the administration won't do shit about it though, they are getting the money.. thats all they care]

11/16/2007 4:05:18 PM

W&M Attendance: 12549

06-07 season opener against wofford: 9671
Duke & Carolina: 19700

11/16/2007 4:11:52 PM

Quote :

"3) State could push a campaign to facilitate season ticket holders giving their tickets to underpriveledged kids, etc."

i don't know if someone mentioned this already, but that program is already in place, though i don't know how many people use it

11/16/2007 4:15:16 PM

By push I mean promote. I have no idea how the program works, and hardly anyone knows it even exists.

11/16/2007 4:36:51 PM

let people move down, but if they go in someones seat (who is, say, at the bathroom) then that person can just make them move. thats pretty understandable.


On another note, I bought my LTRs last week!! So pumped to have season tickets starting next year!!

11/16/2007 4:55:57 PM

ok here's what they do.

make all the tickets scan tickets, then get a list of unused tickets, and at halftime you go get some cheap ticket for an empty seat if you're in the upper level. brilliant.

11/16/2007 4:57:06 PM

Here is an idea I got from looking for Dallas Mavericks tickets on Ticketmaster. They have a tab that is for season ticket holders to list their tickets that they will not use for re-sell. It's such a cool system for people who want to buy the extra tickets and it works just like a free market in the parking lot outside of the RBC. Season holders can sell their tickets for whatever price they deem and the site adds a % fee that the customer must pay to purchase the tickets, which is fairly small. That way, the extra tickets could at least be presented to the market, lower level seats at that, for the market price. Makes perfect sense to me and I sure as hell would buy a William and Mary ticket for 5 extra bucks to sit lower level at midcourt. I would not, however, buy a regular priced ticket to sit upstairs when lower level isn't half full. Why not?

11/16/2007 4:59:59 PM

although for an OOC game the upper deck looked pretty good last night

11/16/2007 5:05:01 PM

I have corporate seats on the lower level, and I don't want to have to fight through a bleacher crowded with people that shouldn't even be there to sit down.

Corporate LTR's are a large part of why the university has the financial backing to make stadium improvements and fund a team. Why would you want to piss them off by letting people steal their seats?

11/16/2007 5:16:52 PM

How is it stealing their seats if they aren't there?

11/16/2007 5:18:26 PM

Yeah, but speaking from being at other sporting events, it's annoying having the few rows in front of you have to move around every single time somebody shows up or comes back from the bathroom... it's very distracting during the game.

The open market selling thing sounds like a good idea, but you can't just let people sit wherever the hell they want

11/16/2007 5:35:22 PM

Quote :

"Here is an idea I got from looking for Dallas Mavericks tickets on Ticketmaster."

i stopped reading right there. this may be off topic but i would want no part of giving any money to ticketmaster

11/16/2007 7:10:25 PM

^^^^We appreciate your support. Thanks for buying prime seats so you can keep them empty, ass.

11/17/2007 3:33:02 AM

The only way to cut out the corporate shiznit is simple, we just have to degrade ourseleves to DIII and play our games in somebodys HS gym....

Then everyone will get their seats in the "lower" deck

11/17/2007 4:44:44 AM

crowds do look awful... and i'd love to have all those lower courtside seats that ppl are sitting in... and there are a lot of empty seats.
notice a lot of ppl leaving several minutes before games are over... in a 40 minute game. i just don't see what the point in coming at all is if you leave before it's even over

11/17/2007 5:29:00 AM

Quote :

"This pushes our attendance way down."

Not saying it doesn't lower the attendance, but don't we usually rank pretty high in our season attendance for basketball? I know we have a big place, but unfortunately I think what you perceive to be an attendance problem is just not a problem worth worrying about in the eyes of administrative types...

11/17/2007 10:30:17 AM

I'm less worried about the attendance than where the empty seats are located (the closest, most visible seats).

11/17/2007 10:34:54 AM

^^we were 18th in the country last year in attendance.

As far as attendance goes, thursday's game had 12,548 in attendance, which is

- Larger than any home crowd Valvano ever had at State.
- Larger than any home crowd Michael Jordan ever had at UNC.
- Larger than any home crowd anybody has ever had at Duke.
- Larger than any home crowd that the majority of Div I schools have ever had.

there's nothing to see here, someone's just trying to create the idea of a problem where there is none.

11/17/2007 11:09:53 AM

Quote :

"I have corporate seats on the lower level, and I don't want to have to fight through a bleacher crowded with people that shouldn't even be there to sit down. Corporate LTR's are a large part of why the university has the financial backing to make stadium improvements and fund a team. Why would you want to piss them off by letting people steal their seats?"

Quote :

"Yeah, but speaking from being at other sporting events, it's annoying having the few rows in front of you have to move around every single time somebody shows up or comes back from the bathroom... it's very distracting during the game. "

c'mon guys. are you serious? ideally i think we all would like a leather lazy boy at mid court on the front row but sometimes u gotta sacrifice a little to help w/ the atmosphere. get a reality check guys. when you go to a game you should expect that you will have to deal w/ crowds.

i can't believe you have been so spoiled that having to actually stand up to let someone by is ticking you off. these complaints are just so ridiculous that i want to go on a 20 page rant, but i'll keep it to just this.

11/17/2007 1:08:20 PM

Quote :

"complaints are just so ridiculous that i want to go on a 20 page rant"

no way you could stretch that into 20 pages!

11/17/2007 1:09:35 PM

the problem is that is could be better

11/17/2007 10:14:19 PM