fuck your ems bullshit

i am very mad that you people are allowed to kidnap people off the side of the road and send them 341 dollar invoices for driving them 2 miles to the hospital, where they are subsequently [not treated] and released. i especially like how ems is in bed with the tax department and you cant pay your house or car tax, or get income tax refunds if you "owe" the ems

LAY DOWN

DONT MOVE

*STRAP*

WOOO WOOOO

[HOSPITAL]

....

PROFIT

12/14/2007 7:30:56 AM

should've just paid the $50 to join the association...

12/14/2007 7:33:34 AM

yea and fuck yall for refusing to come to the hood cuz niggers aint got no money anyway and because they attack ems workers

12/14/2007 7:36:45 AM

^

12/14/2007 7:43:24 AM

hahah they come to the hood. i actually got EMSed from the heart of MLK drive, right by the churches chicken. i was just gonna walk somewhere and use a phone till i got kidnapped by the paramedics

12/14/2007 7:44:08 AM

could someone translate ^^^

12/14/2007 7:45:08 AM

if you need punctuation you lose

12/14/2007 7:45:49 AM

they were rescuing you from the hoodrats

12/14/2007 7:49:33 AM

Quote :

"if you don't know how to use need punctuation, you lose"

12/14/2007 7:50:11 AM

craw>wdprice

12/14/2007 7:50:33 AM

there were a lot of hoodrats after i wrecked that car

it was like the crowd that gathered when craig fought debo -- i guess a bloody white boy is just as interesting

12/14/2007 7:52:49 AM

nah they were just waiting to steal your wallet and radio

12/14/2007 7:53:40 AM

my brother used to ride his bike down MLK to go to work--one day, somebody threw a tire and hit him in the face. he actually didn't fall off, but they stole his bike while he was using the pay phone to call an ambulance. it fucked his eye up pretty bad; he had to have surgery twice

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 8:01 AM. Reason : &]

12/14/2007 7:57:25 AM

shit>fjjackso>craw

12/14/2007 7:57:50 AM

^^some people don't deserve to live^

12/14/2007 8:11:10 AM

STOP HITTING POLES

12/14/2007 8:27:04 AM

Quote :

"they "

YOU PEOPLE

and leg, you need to realize that you got yourself in that situation in the first place. think about it from the perspective of an EMT - you get a call from a 3rd party that there was an MVA, and a passenger is walking around bleeding. You get there and they're all like "NO GTFO I DUN WANNA PAY"...well suppose they have a head injury, and this seemingly illogical reaction is a result of that? Besides, if EMS just said "OK CYA" and left the scene, then you could later sue for negligence. I don't think they want that.

Bottom line is - if you fuck up, you have to pay the consequences. It's part of living in this society. If the reason for you looking like you need immediate medical attn. is due to someone else's fault, then hopefully the ride will be covered by insurance.

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 9:09 AM. Reason : ]

12/14/2007 9:08:53 AM

hey, let's get offended by what someone posted on the internet.

12/14/2007 9:19:46 AM

wat

no, i r serious

jackleg brings up an interesting point. i am curious as to the legality of what EMT's can do...i.e. transporting an individual who doesn't want care. and of course you get slapped with the bill afterwards, no matter how much you needed or didnt need the ambulance ride. can they just pick up people that they judge to have an acute medical condition, and assume resistance means they are delusional?

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 9:27 AM. Reason : ]

12/14/2007 9:23:58 AM

it's a complicated situation, obviously... but seems that since he was indeed going to call somebody to take his ass to the hospital, they're a little more in the wrong. maybe they should have waited around (assuming they weren't need anywhere else) while his ride showed up instead of making him go. I'd raise hell about that bill, but that's just me. I'm sure they save a lot of lives doing it that way instead of letting people full of adrenaline decide that they're invincible while they go home to die of internal bleeding or something.

Anyways, it probably could have been handled better.

12/14/2007 9:31:05 AM

Not sure if it's protocol, but I'm pretty sure that you can refuse transport on the $texas bus. I've been on one quite a few times and each time they asked me if I wanted to go to the hospital.

12/14/2007 9:31:25 AM

i'd appreciate an EMT picking me up if I wasn't conscious or something. Or if i called and asked for a ride to the hospital. some lady riding by called, i guess. and i was walking down the street and then got kidnapped by EMS

LAY DOWN THERE IS A BONE STICKING OUT OF YOUR HEAD, LAY DOWN YOUR NECK IS BROKEN IN 22 PLACES.

but thats like dominos showing up at my house with 4 pizzas saying "the neighbors called and said you looked hungry. you owe us 50 bucks"

plus this was when i first moved back to NC and didnt have a jerb, so i didnt have insurance. even without insurance, the ER bill was only like 100 bucks cash.

even if i did have insurance then, i'm not gonna pay a copay for that EMS bullshit, and i definitely would have tried to talk the insurance company out of paying a dime to those extorting motherfuckers at the EMT. As someone who has been charged with kidnapping before, I found that particularly offensive. I got strapped to a cart thing and locked in a vehicle and taken to a hospital without a choice and with no chance to escape. that's gotta be kidnapping.



^i tried to refuse, they just kept asking which hospital i wanted to go to. i kept saying NONE. if i were unconscious, this would be a totally different story. but i was just walking down the street bleeding

i also forgot why i made this thread, this was from like a year and a half ago

12/14/2007 9:31:38 AM

I agree with jackleg.

*bursts into flames*

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 9:40 AM. Reason : .]

12/14/2007 9:39:59 AM

Is this anything like "Dear Penis"?

12/14/2007 9:58:21 AM

Quote :

"but thats like dominos showing up at my house with 4 pizzas saying "the neighbors called and said you looked hungry. you owe us 50 bucks""

ahahah

12/14/2007 10:14:48 AM

a paramedic (not evan) once told me that he once responded to a call where the guy was drunk and had been stabbed, but since he was drunk he didn't want them to take him to the hospital, so they couldn't.

12/14/2007 10:37:13 AM

paramedic

12/14/2007 10:37:45 AM

^^^ hahah thats what i told the lady. i got a letter in the mail saying that they had a deal with NC Dept of Revenue (honestly when i got the letter, i thought it was a property tax bill on my car or something because of the return address), and that if i didnt pay it, they would take "necessary action" and get their money from either

a) my tax refund checks
b) ANY FUTURE LOTTERY WINNINGS HAHAHAHAH

so i called the number and asked if a 10 cent a month payment plan would prevent them from getting back into bed with the revenue department.

anyways, they said that was not acceptable, and after she argued with me for like 20 minutes about ridiculous shit like dominos pizza, she finally pointed out that it said on the back of the letter (hahah durr me) that i could appeal the charge if i felt that i was being charged for something i didnt ask for. sure, i took the ride, but i also had like 2 paramedics screaming at me to sit down and not move and that i was bleeding and all that. i know its their job to make sure im safe, i guess... but these guys seemed like they wanted me to think my neckbone was gonna fall out if i didnt do exactly what they said.

the kicker: that was the one day i forgot my cell phone. the only time in years that i really needed it. so i asked a lady with a cell phone to call my mom for me (since i had blood on my head i didnt want to borrow her phone) and tell them that i'd been in an accident, and i was ok, but my car was busted and i needed her to call up my brother to come to the churches chicken or whatever and pick me up. like i said, i told them my ride was on the way and they could leave me alone!!!1

its just principle. if i have to pay it in order to refinance a mortgage or something, then so be it. in the mean time, they're gonna have to prove they dont just drive around greensboro looking for wrecks and dollar signs. the only difference between ems drivers and tow truck drivers is that the ems guys coud be beneficial if i were unresponsive or needed immediate medical attention. i'm not a big fan of the ones that just scream at you to lay down then start up the 140 dollar a mile taxi cab with the red lights on top

RANT. and i really dont remember why this was to evan. cause i like evan i think. was this a parody

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 10:42 AM. Reason : -->

12/14/2007 10:40:40 AM

^^ wat?

12/14/2007 10:41:29 AM

SIR YOU HAVE BEEN STABBED - YOU NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION

nah man, i'm cool

this is funny

stuff

Quote :

"my brother used to ride his bike down MLK to go to work--one day, somebody threw a tire and hit him in the face. he actually didn't fall off, but they stole his bike while he was using the pay phone to call an ambulance. it fucked his eye up pretty bad; he had to have surgery twice"

12/14/2007 10:42:02 AM

hooray for EMS'

12/14/2007 10:45:49 AM

i like ems too

just dont like the idea of verbal contracts between ems and a party that just smacked his head up against a window.

if i'm awake, they should have to get a signature from me. otherwise the contract is based on them telling me my neck is broken and locking me in an ambulance and driving off

[Edited on December 14, 2007 at 10:49 AM. Reason : .]

12/14/2007 10:49:04 AM

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you (really, i'm not...i don't know the situation as i wasn't there)...but i think that's part of the "emergency medical" part...they may have made a mistake, but would i rather they sometimes "force" people into receiving medical help so that they catch the people who really are incapable of making the decision due to damage? probably

12/14/2007 10:55:22 AM

yeah, and I'd hate to see a crazy person not get a ride just cause theyre crazy and refuse for some reason. But there's gotta be a way to protect those of us who mean it when we decine the ride.

but ihave to do some stuff

dear evan, if nothing else, please hook me up with some ems-speak slang that i can use with these people to fuck with them next time i akk

12/14/2007 11:00:25 AM

DEAR MISTER I DON'T EVER CALL OR WRITE BACK MY FANS

12/14/2007 11:01:38 AM

Here is the deal: [LONG response]

In most every case, transport to the hospital by ambulance is something which is decided upon by the patient. As an EMT, I assess the patient as best I can, provide necessary treatment with permission, and give the patient my advice as to which course of action is best regarding further evaluation and treatment beyond what I can provide. Sometimes this is transport by ambulance. Sometimes a friend or family member takes the patient to the hospital. Sometimes the patient stay home and goes to bed. Bottom line: It is their choice. The patient will have to sign a form saying they take responsibility for their decision not to be transported to a hospital, but they decide. There is not much I can do if someone is about to die and refuses all help but can prove to me they are able to decide for themselves what they want to do.

However, there are cases when we are forced to take people to the hospital against their will. It does not matter who called 9-1-1. Once we respond, we are assuming responsibility and liability. To an extent, this hold true for all of health care, not just EMS. This is not an EMT trying to make money. Ambulances, at least 9-1-1 response ambulances in Wake County, are not on commission. In fact, the people staffing that ambulance would very likely rather be at the station sleeping in the middle of the night than arguing with a patient all the way to the hospital.

Cases where a patient cannot refuse are cases when circumstances would make that patient incapable of make decisions for themselves. This goes two ways. I'm sure that there have been cases go to court in which a person claims EMS should have known they were not capable of normal decision making and therefore should not have left them on the scene.

So for, example ... Little Timmy calls 9-1-1 because his mom is passed out on the floor and he can't wake her up. When EMS arrives, Mom is awake and adamantly refusing anything related to EMS care. When asked, Mom states that she drank half a bottle of liquor earlier in the night, but now she feels fine. She is not good on her feet and smells of alcohol. A prescription sitting on the counter was filled for 100 pills two weeks ago and 90 are gone when only 14 should be gone. Mom provides no explanation ... She is going to the hospital. She is going to the hospital with us. She is drinking activated charcoal on the way or she is getting a tube down her nose to deposit said charcoal in her stomach. She can scream, piss, and moan, but we HAVE to take her. If she passes out and dies five minutes after we leave, her death is on us. Sued. Fired. Done.

Unfortunately, not every case is this clear cut. For all I know, the case which prompted this post was far from simple. For example, a car accident. Lots of factors come into play. Was the patient drinking? Are there signs of a head injury? What does the car look like? There are so many things which could distract a person from an injury, all of which the ambulance crew must take responsibility for. It does suck to have to pay when you didn't even call for the ambulance, but as has been stated: with how insurance works, you won't be forced to pay if your injuries were not of your doing.

12/14/2007 11:01:56 AM

the dominos pizza line is hilarious

A++ would read from again

12/14/2007 11:06:07 AM

Quote :

"In fact, the people staffing that ambulance would very likely rather be at the station sleeping in the middle of the night than arguing with a patient all the way to the hospital"

haha, have you ever talked to evan?

12/14/2007 11:07:16 AM

I'm not on TWW nearly enough any more to know if Evan is the fellow volunteer at Cary I have met once or twice, but that is the only EMS Evan I know. And yes, the Caryites are working us to death lately. I used to sleep maybe half the night, rarely more and rarely less. Now, I don't know why I make my bed.

12/14/2007 11:10:08 AM

more than likely the same evan. if he drives a chrysler pacifica then you know

12/14/2007 11:11:24 AM

heh, let's just say that evan is enthusiastic

12/14/2007 11:14:50 AM

12/14/2007 11:45:10 AM

Ok, so I just called Dominos and told them to send some pizzas to my neighbors because they look hungry. Now Dominos is pissed at me and since my number came up on caller ID they say they won't deliver to my house anymore.

One time, while street riding BMX bikes on campus, one of my friends separated his shoulder. I had seen him do it a couple of times and knew he was just going to roll around on the asphalt for a few minutes until it went back into the socket, but apparently a bystander called paramedics. They tried really hard to kidnap him, but they ended up letting him stay after he signed some form releasing them from any liability.

12/14/2007 11:55:47 AM

Quote :

"In most every case, transport to the hospital by ambulance is something which is decided upon by the patient. As an EMT, I assess the patient as best I can, provide necessary treatment with permission, and give the patient my advice as to which course of action is best regarding further evaluation and treatment beyond what I can provide. Sometimes this is transport by ambulance. Sometimes a friend or family member takes the patient to the hospital. Sometimes the patient stay home and goes to bed. Bottom line: It is their choice. The patient will have to sign a form saying they take responsibility for their decision not to be transported to a hospital, but they decide. There is not much I can do if someone is about to die and refuses all help but can prove to me they are able to decide for themselves what they want to do. However, there are cases when we are forced to take people to the hospital against their will. It does not matter who called 9-1-1. Once we respond, we are assuming responsibility and liability. To an extent, this hold true for all of health care, not just EMS. This is not an EMT trying to make money. Ambulances, at least 9-1-1 response ambulances in Wake County, are not on commission. In fact, the people staffing that ambulance would very likely rather be at the station sleeping in the middle of the night than arguing with a patient all the way to the hospital. Cases where a patient cannot refuse are cases when circumstances would make that patient incapable of make decisions for themselves. This goes two ways. I'm sure that there have been cases go to court in which a person claims EMS should have known they were not capable of normal decision making and therefore should not have left them on the scene. So for, example ... Little Timmy calls 9-1-1 because his mom is passed out on the floor and he can't wake her up. When EMS arrives, Mom is awake and adamantly refusing anything related to EMS care. When asked, Mom states that she drank half a bottle of liquor earlier in the night, but now she feels fine. She is not good on her feet and smells of alcohol. A prescription sitting on the counter was filled for 100 pills two weeks ago and 90 are gone when only 14 should be gone. Mom provides no explanation ... She is going to the hospital. She is going to the hospital with us. She is drinking activated charcoal on the way or she is getting a tube down her nose to deposit said charcoal in her stomach. She can scream, piss, and moan, but we HAVE to take her. If she passes out and dies five minutes after we leave, her death is on us. Sued. Fired. Done. Unfortunately, not every case is this clear cut. For all I know, the case which prompted this post was far from simple. For example, a car accident. Lots of factors come into play. Was the patient drinking? Are there signs of a head injury? What does the car look like? There are so many things which could distract a person from an injury, all of which the ambulance crew must take responsibility for. It does suck to have to pay when you didn't even call for the ambulance, but as has been stated: with how insurance works, you won't be forced to pay if your injuries were not of your doing."

Excellent post, 10/10. For a second here i thought it was the Lounge

12/14/2007 12:50:06 PM

I had a very bad accident once. My car was beyond fucked up. I further damaged my car to get out--I was convinced there were still children in the other car, which was a bout to blow up. There wasn't and I was fine.

The paramedics assumed the freaking out lady was in my car (which looked much much much worse). They could not beleive I was the one driving my car. They tried for 10 minutes to get me to go to the hospital. They tried to blame my wrist flexor soreness on the accident (when I had just been doing high rep oly lifts and rope climbs(i had just left hte gym)).

12/14/2007 1:09:30 PM

Quote :

"DEAR LOSER, CHRISSSSSSSSSSS~"

first thing i thought about when i saw this

okay, so, i frowned when i read this thread

Quote :

"fuck your ems bullshit i am very mad that you people are allowed to kidnap people off the side of the road and send them 341 dollar invoices for driving them 2 miles to the hospital, where they are subsequently [not treated] and released. i especially like how ems is in bed with the tax department and you cant pay your house or car tax, or get income tax refunds if you "owe" the ems LAY DOWN DONT MOVE *STRAP* WOOO WOOOO [HOSPITAL] .... PROFIT"

a) it's more like $425

b) we don't decide whether or not the hospital releases you or not

c) if you're conscious, alert, and oriented (as determined and documented by us), you're more than within your rights to refuse transport. if you're not, we decide what's going to happen (implied consent) and 99.9% of the time we take you to the hospital because 1) it's usually medically necessary in that situation, and 2) it removes us from liability.


then i saw what jcs1283 posted and it made me happy again because he explained it so well

Quote :

"In fact, the people staffing that ambulance would very likely rather be at the station sleeping in the middle of the night than arguing with a patient all the way to the hospital"

this is very, very true.

and

Quote :

"haha, have you ever talked to evan?"

i would only rather NOT be out on a call when i'm asleep. if i'm asleep, if i get woken up, it better be for something good... unfortunately, more often than not, it's for something stupid.

Quote :

"I'm not on TWW nearly enough any more to know if Evan is the fellow volunteer at Cary I have met once or twice, but that is the only EMS Evan I know."

who you be? i'm guessing john. sup mang, haven't seen you or caroline in a while. missed you guys at the party!

12/14/2007 3:33:40 PM

oh and

Quote :

"She is going to the hospital. She is going to the hospital with us. She is drinking activated charcoal on the way or she is getting a tube down her nose to deposit said charcoal in her stomach. She can scream, piss, and moan, but we HAVE to take her. If she passes out and dies five minutes after we leave, her death is on us. Sued. Fired. Done."

10/10, tr00f, yo.

12/14/2007 3:36:02 PM

Quote :

"a paramedic (not evan) once told me that he once responded to a call where the guy was drunk and had been stabbed, but since he was drunk he didn't want them to take him to the hospital, so they couldn't."

this sounds like the worst paramedic ever to me... altered mental status = implied consent. your ass is going to the hospital unless a cop lets us release you to someone else (a friend, etc.)

Quote :

"should've just paid the $50 to join the association..."

$60/year. covers you as many times as you need transport to the hospital via EMS. much cheaper than even one ambulance trip.

Quote :

"dear evan, if nothing else, please hook me up with some ems-speak slang that i can use with these people to fuck with them next time i akk"

ain't no special slang, b. if you're conscious, alert, and oriented to person, place, and time; and you tell me you don't want to go to the hospital or don't want me to treat you, and there's not something SERIOUSLY wrong with you, you sign a form that basically says you're responsible for anything that happens to you, and we're on our merry way, you don't get charged a dime.

Quote :

"if i'm awake, they should have to get a signature from me. otherwise the contract is based on them telling me my neck is broken and locking me in an ambulance and driving off"

if you're awake, we almost always DO get a signature from you.

12/14/2007 3:43:39 PM

jackleg would have a point

if you weren't legally allowed to refuse ambulance service

12/14/2007 3:46:38 PM

and yeah

if you refuse treatment/transport but we still take you AND we weren't within our rights to do so (again, implied consent)

it can be considered assault and battery, and we can be charged and sent to jail for doing so.

12/14/2007 3:47:41 PM