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tower
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Beverly isnt going anywhere, Keatts' style needs shooting and yet he keeps recruiting motherfuckers who cant shoot

1/11/2018 2:37:13 PM

dmspack
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Yeah dorn can transfer again.

I’m not saying he will or anything - just kinda listing guys who could transfer.

[Edited on January 11, 2018 at 2:39 PM. Reason : A]

1/11/2018 2:39:16 PM

LudaChris
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I think Keatts wants to go full speed and a run a lot, so I could see us going 10 deep easy.

Let's just assume that Yurt is gone, wouldn't hard to imagine a line-up of:

G: Johnson/Harris
G: Beverly/Batts
F: Dorn/Daniels
F: Bryce/Hellems or Bey
C: Hicks/Funderburk or Bates or Steere

I imagine Hellems and Bey will be competing for minutes with likely only 1 of them seeing the court much. Then I imagine 2 of the 3 of Funderburk, Bates, and Steere see minutes. I would give Funderburk the edge since he's older and coming from a JUCO.

1/11/2018 2:51:43 PM

ncsuallday
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so what's your prediction for next year LudaChris? NCAA bubble? NCAA lock? Beyond?

1/11/2018 4:38:18 PM

wolfpack2105
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I would be disappointed if we werent in the tourney next year. But if we arent the following year, fire keatts!!!

[Edited on January 11, 2018 at 4:48 PM. Reason : Hdh]

1/11/2018 4:47:40 PM

Bullet
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https://packinsider.com/2018/02/21/nc-states-best-2018-commit-might-guy-no-one-talking-69-derek-funderburk/

2/21/2018 1:44:39 PM

LudaChris
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Quote :
"so what's your prediction for next year LudaChris? NCAA bubble? NCAA lock? Beyond?"


If we're assuming Markell, Beverly, and Dorn are all back next year, I think we'll be better than this year, so I'd say NCAA lock.

Bryce should fill in the Freeman roll, and the reports on Daniels so far have been even more amazing than Bryce(who I thought would be the guy to push us over the edge). Sounds like Daniels has been lighting up our starters, so I imagine he'll be looking to get a ton of minutes. We'll stick with the small-ball approach and bring our front-court along. Losing Yurt is going to hurt, but I think the guys we have coming in probably fit what Keatts wants to do a little more, so while our mainly big won't be as good as Yurt, I think the front-court depth will actually fit the scheme better.

If we add Simons(probably going pro) or keep Yurt(extreme longshot), then I'd probably bump us up to a potential top 25 team.

2/21/2018 1:57:23 PM

Lionheart
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"Losing Yurt is going to hurt,"


I think this is probably a given but I can envision a world where he comes back and works to a lottery pick. I don't think he's there yet even with the NBA drafting on potential and height. Most draft mocks I've seen have him as a late first rounder and you could make an argument that he would be well served to come back one more year.

2/21/2018 2:03:29 PM

ncsuallday
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when are the new transfer rules supposed to be decided? maybe some other program will lose a coach or something that we could get a transfer to fill in at center. Not too late for a JUCO guy or grad transfer either, right?

2/21/2018 2:05:52 PM

DonMega
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I believe Ian Steere was at the game last night.

They also showed cat and tj buckets multiple times.

2/21/2018 2:05:57 PM

rwoody
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I don't know how it would work with scholarships but I think most expect Keatts to chase a grad transfer big man if possible. The expectation being that, outside of very top guys, freshmen at the 4/5 won't cut it in the ACC.

2/21/2018 2:12:23 PM

ncsuallday
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Quote :
"I think this is probably a given but I can envision a world where he comes back and works to a lottery pick. I don't think he's there yet even with the NBA drafting on potential and height. Most draft mocks I've seen have him as a late first rounder and you could make an argument that he would be well served to come back one more year"


I agree. He's also been said to take school really seriously (he's an engineering major iirc) so I could see it. I think its getting the right balance of making the NCAAT and showing him we're almost there, but not going so far as to get him more attention. If Daniels/Bryce/Funderburk are that good and he believes we'd be a T25 program all year, I don't see why he would risk D-league/Europe when he could go lotto

2/21/2018 2:13:00 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"I think this is probably a given but I can envision a world where he comes back and works to a lottery pick. I don't think he's there yet even with the NBA drafting on potential and height. Most draft mocks I've seen have him as a late first rounder and you could make an argument that he would be well served to come back one more year."


So you're envisioning a world where Keatts tells one of his incoming freshmen to take a hike because he doesn't have a scholarship?

2/21/2018 2:14:19 PM

Lionheart
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^People get pushed to transfer all the time

[Edited on February 21, 2018 at 2:37 PM. Reason : greyshirting, millions of ways to handle this sort of thing.]

2/21/2018 2:36:26 PM

ncsuallday
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could see Newman or Hicks going

2/21/2018 2:36:36 PM

dmspack
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Don’t think Newman is on scholarship is he? We were at 13 before Kirk left if you don’t count Newman. So I’m assuming he was a walk on. Hicks transfer would seem plausible but he, if he’s any good, could be in line for plenty of minutes next year. But maybe he’s not good enough.

2/21/2018 2:39:50 PM

justinh524
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Newman isn't on scholarship and it would make zero sense for Hicks to sit out this year and then transfer, meaning he would have to sit out another year. If Hicks was going to transfer he would have done it at the semester break at the latest. It would be awful shitty of Keatts to wait and tell Hicks he wasn't wanted until after this year, when he could have used this injury year as a year in residence at another school.

Quote :
"greyshirting"


That's not really a thing in basketball. Because enrolling in January doesn't really work when your season ends in March/April.

The only way to free up a scholarship is if someone transfers (doubtful considering how few returning players we have and their roles on the team) or if a recruit fails to qualify. But this is all dumb, because there's probably a 99.9% chance that Yurtseven goes pro. Anyone who believes he's not solidly in the first round of the NBA draft is out of touch with reality. He's a 19 year old 7 footer who can stretch the floor and still play inside and is excellent in the pick and roll. That's a rare commodity.

2/21/2018 2:49:27 PM

LudaChris
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Newman was awarded a scholarship at one point, but obviously that could get pulled at any time as those are 1-year deals.

I think the most likely scenarios are:
Yurt goes to the NBA.
Dorn(age) goes International.
Batts(playing time) transfers.
Hicks(injuries/playing time) transfers.

If we add Simons, I honestly don't know how we could pursue a grad transfer big man.

2/21/2018 2:49:51 PM

Lionheart
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^^Yeah I'm still thinking Yurt is gone, I'm just saying if he said he wanted to come back, they would find a way to make it happen

2/21/2018 2:52:42 PM

V0LC0M
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Hicks is already gone from what I understand.

2/21/2018 3:03:33 PM

JT3bucky
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Hicks has a torn ligament, not like he isn't getting playing time. You're thinking of Kirk.

I don't know why you think Batts would transfer? That makes no sense. He is a freshman and needs to develop more.

Yurt7 likely going pro and that will be the biggest loss, we need the rebounding.

RARELY do you see a freshman ACC center do well.

2/21/2018 3:18:49 PM

V0LC0M
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nope, thinking of Hicks

2/21/2018 3:20:03 PM

wolfpack2105
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i wouldn't be surprised to see Hicks go. Hes not gonna see any PT here.

2/21/2018 3:22:21 PM

justinh524
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The only reason I would be surprised is because waiting to transfer wastes a year of eligibility. He wouldn't be eligible to play at another school until 2019-20 and would only have 2 years eligibility remaining.

Also I don't see Dorn going pro or Batts transferring. Those both seem very unlikely.

2/21/2018 3:40:59 PM

LudaChris
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Well, someone has to leave or one of the FR will be out a scholarship(and we're still recruiting a 5* for 2018).

Dorn is in the Lacey position where he's older than most and there isn't a ton of benefit from another year(he's not going to shoot up draft boards). Obviously he'd continue to start and get plenty of PT, but I guess it just depends on what his goals are.

Batts transferring would be completely about being buried on the depth chart. He's already not getting minutes, and then you add in Harris, Bryce, Daniels, and Hellems for next year, Batts is going to have to improve drastically for meaningful minutes.

2/21/2018 3:59:14 PM

V0LC0M
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Yeah I could definitely see Batts leaving. We will be deep at guard. Did Hicks play at all this year? Couldn't he get a medical redshirt?

2/21/2018 4:00:58 PM

justinh524
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Quote :
"Well, someone has to leave or one of the FR will be out a scholarship"


Yes, Yurtseven is going to leave.

Batts leaving would surprise me because while he has struggled this year as a freshman, he clearly is the type of guard that Keatts wants in his system. I don't really see his playing time decreasing next year. Daniels and Bryce would seem like a natural fit to replace Freeman and Hunt in the rotation, though it seems like Bryce could end up more in the mold of Dorn. None of the freshmen are going to eat into his PT at point guard and Blake Harris proved even less than Batts in his time at Missouri. I think a year in the system and an off-season of workouts and he could make big improvements, much like Markell Johnson made this year. I think Beverly is the one who's PT is going to suffer, simply because the guys coming in are better defenders and also aren't 6 feet tall.

In all likelihood we're gonna play 4 guards next year, so there's tons of minutes to be had.

2/21/2018 4:19:41 PM

dmspack
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Quote :
"Hicks is already gone from what I understand."


maybe. but nothing official, yet. like justin said, it would've made sense for him to transfer earlier unless he's hoping/thinking he can get a medical hardship or something.

Quote :
"Well, someone has to leave or one of the FR will be out a scholarship(and we're still recruiting a 5* for 2018). "


right now, according to everything i've read...we're all good on scholarship numbers. we'll be at 13 next year. i dunno if that means Newman won't be on scholarship next year or if he's not on scholarship this year. Newman was not on scholarship at the beginning of this year, because Kirk made 13. once Kirk left we were at 12 and it's possible Newman was put on scholly then. the transfer from Mizzou, Blake Harris, is a walk on this year and will be on scholarship next year...which would indicate that Newman, for now is probably on scholarship, i guess. obviously the numbers change if we do add somebody, and we are still recruiting for 2018 like you said.

i haven't been able to find anything saying Newman is on scholarship. so i'm, for the sake of this, assuming he's not. that means we're currently at 12 scholarship players. we lose 5 (Al, Lennard, Abu, Hunt, Yurt) and add 6 (Bates, Funderburk, Harris, Steere, Hellems, Bey). so then we're all good 13. and if Newman was put on scholarship this semester after Kirk left, i think it's safe to assume his would be the first to open up. and obviously other transfer could arise, but i don't see any super obvious transfer candidates really.

[Edited on February 21, 2018 at 4:38 PM. Reason : ^ i agree with all of that]

2/21/2018 4:37:30 PM

rwoody
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"excellent in the pick and roll"


He is? We don't really run much pick and roll with him do we? I'm not sure he has the athleticism to be an NBA pnr big man and his defense would make it tough to stay on the court. Centers that need post up touches are a dying breed in the NBA

2/21/2018 5:39:07 PM

DonMega
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^^ http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/nc-state

this does not have newman on scholarship, the rest of what you said matches up here

2/21/2018 7:44:46 PM

dmspack
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Yeah I figured he wasn’t unless they put him on scholly after Kirk transferred.

2/21/2018 8:23:34 PM

Lionheart
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Quote :
"Batts leaving would surprise me because while he has struggled this year as a freshman, he clearly is the type of guard that Keatts wants in his system."


I think the issue with Batts could be that the guards aren't staggered very well. You have Markell as a So and Beverly as a Fr, and while I know the idea is to have Beverly as a 2, he is running the show when Johnson is off the floor so you could say that Batts is going to be behind two guys with significant time left and then having to compete with whoever we bring in so he could see that as an issue. It would be different waiting if you are behind a Jr or Sr instead of a Fr and a So

2/21/2018 9:01:04 PM

LudaChris
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So with Yurt leaving, we're all squared away for next year scholarship wise, but we're still going to need some shuffling if Simons commits(can we really pass on a 5* one-and-done?) or if the reports that Keatts is starting to look at grad transfer bigs already.

Batts won't see minutes until he develops his shooting ability, he's just a complete non-threat on the court right now. Beverly is going to get minutes next year, he's a capable 3pt shooter and more than makes up for his short-comings on defense. Beverly might see less minutes, simply because when Markell comes out you'll see Harris take his spot on the court instead of Beverly being the PG in his absence.

2/22/2018 9:23:10 AM

Maverick1024
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"He is? We don't really run much pick and roll with him do we?"


I'm thinking he meant pick and pop. He's very excellent at that.

^^I haven't been keeping up with Simons. Do we have a legit shot at him? We could definitely use some more scoring from the wing next year.

[Edited on February 22, 2018 at 9:39 AM. Reason : ]

2/22/2018 9:36:46 AM

GenghisJohn
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If he chooses to go to school I think the feeling is we have a pretty good shot. Most likely though he's not going to school.

2/22/2018 9:42:15 AM

AstralEngine
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doesn't he have to go somewhere one year?

2/22/2018 9:51:03 AM

ncsuallday
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For a true freshman and with his size, Beverley has been extremely impressive and has shown great leadership. I expect him to have show huge improvement sophomore year and end up being a Greyson Allen type guy (without the tripping and general douchebaggery). We'll definitely have more firepower and mobility with our guards all around next year. This year was taking what he had and what he could get last minute and working it into his system - I can't wait to see the next few years as Keatts gets his guys into place and the system really flourishes

2/22/2018 9:51:33 AM

LudaChris
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No, Simons is eligible for the NBA if he'd choose to go that route. He graduated last year, is doing a post-grad year at IMG Academy and he's already 19 and 1-year removed from graduating. So if he chooses to go pro(being mocked in the first round, highest I've seen is pick 20) this year he can, but he has also said he's "leaning" towards going to college for a year.

He's likely not going to make a decision until he has a chance to get NBA feedback, and I could see his recruitment exploding if he announces he's going to opt for college, but right now we're in a good position to land him if he went that route.

2/22/2018 10:25:21 AM

rwoody
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^^Im not sure Allen is a great comparison. Allen is 6'5" and has superb athleticism

2/22/2018 10:46:15 AM

bdmazur
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That Funderburk video doesn't seem as impressive when you realize every opposing player is a foot shorter than he is. He won't be uncontested on every drive like that in the ACC. But there's still a lot to like and I'm excited to see him play for us.

2/22/2018 10:47:13 AM

HCH
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LOL. Yeah, the first 2 clips were of him blowing by the fat guy from TeenWolf. But he looks athletic, can shoot, and has relatively good ball control skills.

2/22/2018 10:53:27 AM

titans78
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Whatever happens just hope to see Keatt's change the trend of constant transferring especially because we simply have another person that plays that same position, or a guy isn't playing the whole game. It is OK to have more than one guy that plays a position on the roster at any given time.

It is amazing how few seniors we've actually had over the past 15 years. Seems like we never have more than 1-2 scholarship seniors on the roster and those guys help you out both with leadership and physicality. Roster turnover of Kentucky without the accompanying success. Maybe that is how it is at all schools and just not paying attention.

2/22/2018 11:48:25 AM

rwoody
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We had 3 just last year. 4 if you count Brickhouse

2/22/2018 12:37:51 PM

dmspack
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4 this year...but obviously he's not counting Al and Hunt since they were grad transfers and i get that.

but yes, the transfer thing was a big problem under Gott. also coaching changes tend to lead to roster turnover...and in the 15 year span mentioned we have had 3 coaching changes which is definitely gonna cause roster turnover.

2/22/2018 1:24:51 PM

LudaChris
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Transfers are just rampant in college basketball right now, Duke is losing 4* and 5* guys regularly to transfer, same with teams like UK.

When you recruit 4* and 5* players regularly, some of those kids will get recruited over if they aren't ready to contribute early. Some kids just don't take going from being a star HS player to riding the bench or needing to "develop" for a couple of years before they are ready to play ACC ball. So they're going to transfer to other schools looking for opportunities to get more minutes. I mean, we've lost some solid transfers(Martins, Washington, etc), but we've also added some really nice transfers as well(Lacey, Turner, Dorn, Freeman, etc). It's just an ebb and flow thing where you lose guys and you find guys to bring in.

That being said, Keatts seems like the kind of coach kids want to play for and will be more willing to believe in him and "wait their turn". But at the same time, Keatts HS coaching career was largely rebuilding your team every single season, so I think he understands the importance of finding transfers/post grads that can ultimately help your team.

Example: Next year we're likely going to be starting an entire front court that has logged 0 meaningful college minutes. I'd be surprised if he didn't at least consider bringing in a post-grad big to help the transition, because our backcourt could be really, really good next year. Would be a shame to have an amazing backcourt and then struggle consistently inside.

2/23/2018 6:35:35 AM

dmspack
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Quote :
"I mean, we've lost some solid transfers(Martins, Washington, etc), but we've also added some really nice transfers as well(Lacey, Turner, Dorn, Freeman, etc). It's just an ebb and flow thing where you lose guys and you find guys to bring in. "


yeah, imo, this was one overlooked aspect of the gott transfer thing. a lotta guys left. but we brought in some good guys too. i also think gott's recruiting strategy (wait till the spring to scramble to fill the roster) probably led to players coming in that weren't great fits and ultimately transferred.

2/23/2018 6:38:41 AM

justinh524
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Quote :
" But at the same time, Keatts HS coaching career was largely rebuilding your team every single season"


Well yeah of course it was, since he coached a post-graduate team. Every single one of his players was only there a year.

2/23/2018 7:11:32 AM

natureboy
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I looked at a mock draft a couple of days ago and Yurtseven wasn’t even projected in the 2nd round. I was surprised by that.

2/23/2018 8:11:25 PM

LudaChris
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I've seen Yurt going 1st round to Boston.

Not sniffing the lottery but can't argue if he wants to go pro getting a 1st round grade.

2/23/2018 11:02:36 PM

natureboy
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It was a mock draft on ESPN. I definitely thought he would’ve been Mocked to at least be drafted in the second round, maybe the guy didn’t know he was talking about.

2/24/2018 10:44:15 AM

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