I'm giving up TWW for Lent, so here's my walk-off shot:

The anti-Hillary sentiments I hear on the radio, on Fox News, and in passing conversations has (to me) officially worn out its welcome. To be clear, I don't support her. Never have actually. With the presidential race in progress however the talking points against Hillary Clinton are getting circulated at warp speed. Usually I ignore it, but it's gotten to the point that I'm sick and fucking tired of it.

First off, let's stop pretending we "know" Bill and Hillary's marriage is a sham. The usual suspects (Rush, Hannity, etc) talk about it like it's cold hard fact. This is downright reprehensible and it makes me sick, especially if she and Bill managed to work things out.

Second, let's stop condeming Hillary as some kind of heartless, emotionless, cyborg. Hillary Clinton is not a robot. She actually does give a damn about this country. Yeah Hillary's careful, calculated, and typically scripted. That's what good politicians do. Let's not kid ourselves by only blaming her for doing this. Romney and McCain have flipflopped, pandered, and changed positions to reflect national polls. How about we throw them under the bus too?

Jaime Du Pre, a correspondant for the Neil Boortz Show (FM 101.1), was asked on the air about Hillary being straight up unlikeable. Du Pre promptly brought up a story where a conservative friend of his sporadically ran into Hillary walking around DC. The conservative guy's take? "I disagree with her, but damn... she was a nice person."

Myself, I like to bring up Ron Clark's "Essential 55," a book on his work as a 5th grade teacher that made him famous. He took a class to the White House to meet with Bill and Hillary. Hillary was not only very friendly, she took the time to remember every child's name in the short time they were together.

Third, let's stop pretending that Hillary's election would be the end of our civil liberties, economic prowess, and the country in general. Remember, Hillary is more centrist than her opponent - Barack Obama. Yeah, I know the soundbites about "Taking corporate profits," but her overall platform is markedly similar to McCain. Then there's our current president - George Bush. If our country can survive Bush's failed foreign policy, the scandals, his incredible expansion of government, and the biggest asault on personal liberties in recent memory - the Patriot Act, then I think we can withstand Hillary.


In short, let's judge Clinton based on her ACTUAL record. Let's admit that she's a damned good politician not unlike every other candidate currently and formerly in the race? Let's give her the benefit of the doubt instead of assassinating her character at every turn. Let's consider the possiblity that she's not a cold-hearted bitch, but is instead a very intelligent woman that honestly cares about this country. That means admitting that she cannot cry on command.


I don't believe in rhetoric. I believe in real debate. Let's try to have an honest one... even about the candidates we don't like.


See you guys in 40 38 days

2/8/2008 12:53:25 PM

Jesus would be proud of your sacrifice. Giving up a website, you poor soul you.

2/8/2008 12:55:33 PM

Quote :

"Third, let's stop pretending that Hillary's election would be the end of our civil liberties, "

That is one thing I never feared about hillary becoming president. It is the GOP's job to enforce jesus laws and "family moral" laws (war on drugs, online gambling ban, pressure on alcohol control, censorship of vulgar material from TV) and to expand gov't programs to invade personal privacy in the name of "national security" to get dem evil tuurrists.

Quote :

"Romney and McCain have flipflopped, pandered,"

Clinton is the queen of pandering. How do you think she became a senator of NY when she did not even life there. I mean you do kind have to bend your platform to meet the expectations of a lot of the ignorant semi-educated segment of her lower class support base.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 1:20 PM. Reason : l]

2/8/2008 1:18:12 PM

Yeah, but I spend way too much time here, time that's better spent on repairs to my house, bible study, writing lesson plans for my Sunday school class, and getting to bed before midnight. I think a break will do me good. That's what Lent is about - giving up something which in some way honors God.

OK... no T-Dub for 38 days starting... NOW

2/8/2008 1:20:31 PM

bye, see you in 38 days!

2/8/2008 1:22:39 PM

no care ever. anyone but hillary for president plz

2/8/2008 1:31:16 PM

whatever, its either going to be Hillary or Barack.

you people need to understand this fact.

2/8/2008 1:39:02 PM

Hillary is an amazing politician.

Unfortunately, this doesn't help her with me. I would rather see her fail to pass a universal health care than succeeded in doing so.

2/8/2008 2:12:25 PM

Universale health care is bullshit.

We just need to overhaul the industry so healthcare costs wouldn't be artificially high in the first place, pressure companies and provide incentive to make sure they do the right thing and offer all full time employees a reasonable health care insurance program

2/8/2008 2:31:20 PM

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

2/8/2008 2:34:19 PM

Quote :

"In short, let's judge Clinton based on her ACTUAL record. Let's admit that she's a damned good politician not unlike every other candidate currently and formerly in the race? Let's give her the benefit of the doubt instead of assassinating her character at every turn. Let's consider the possiblity that she's not a cold-hearted bitch, but is instead a very intelligent woman that honestly cares about this country. That means admitting that she cannot cry on command."

Sorry, not happening. She plays the victim too much. "Oh all these boys are ganging up on me :'("

2/8/2008 2:34:19 PM

Socks''?? Is that you??

2/8/2008 2:40:10 PM

Quote :

"Universale health care is bullshit. We just need to overhaul the industry so healthcare costs wouldn't be artificially high in the first place, pressure companies and provide incentive to make sure they do the right thing and offer all full time employees a reasonable health care insurance program"

HAY GUYZ

LETS NOT HAVE GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE

LETS JUST USE THE GOVERNMENT TO PRESSURE PRIVATE COMPANIES TO PROVIDE HEALTHCARE






WAIT SHIT THATS THE CURRENT SYSTEM ANYWAY

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 2:41 PM. Reason : >.<]

2/8/2008 2:40:49 PM

hey at least the socialist liberals would stop bitching and trying to get universal health care if all companies took responsibility into taking care of their full-time employees instead of leaving it for the gov't to take over.

If i go full time at my current internship at Sony Ericsson they will pay 100% of my healthcare. The last thing i need is the gov't taking an extra 5% out for Universal health care b.c Walmart decides to cut back expenses and eliminate its employee health insurance plan.

My dad recently had to switch jobs to a company that does not offer its employees health insurance. Thus he is forced to get raped by buying an individual policy; and i have to get into an argument every fucking time i go home about how "wonderful" universal health care would be. If the fucking cheap jews where he worked had some reasonable health insurance plan even if employees had to still chip in the cost would be a lot lower than individual coverage. At 51 in a declining industry getting a new job or training for a new career is unfortuantly exponentially harder.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 3:19 PM. Reason : l]

2/8/2008 3:18:24 PM

Yes, the way our healthcare system is run is perfect. The way other countries run it is socialism and is wrong! Putting healthcare in the hands of the government would just cause bad things to happen.




Oh wait,

2/8/2008 3:24:03 PM

Quote :

"The way other countries run it is socialism and is wrong! Putting healthcare in the hands of the government would just cause bad things to happen. "

except for they do not have the epidemic of lazy, fat, and/or stupid people

2/8/2008 3:27:24 PM

You realize that comment only proves my point, right?

The government wants to keep costs down, whereas Healthcare companies want to keep costs up.

2/8/2008 3:29:34 PM

^^You might want to actually check on that one instead of just playing off stereotypes.

2/8/2008 3:32:25 PM

a lot of the reasons healthcare costs are up is partly to blame for the government.

seeing how the gov't handles many other programs I do not see a univeral health care program being either efficient or effective. The bureacracy would be rediculous. If any kind of socialized system were to be created it should be with the individual states. This way they could customize their program to meet that of their population and no favortism with allocated funds illustrated depending how what states have the more powerful congressmen in DC. Not that I support state UHC either but this would be a lot more efficient then a Fed led initiative.

Quote :

"You might want to actually check on that one instead of just playing off stereotypes. "

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 3:37 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 3:37 PM. Reason : a]

2/8/2008 3:33:47 PM

trust me. My hate for hillary IS NOT "rhetoric"

2/8/2008 3:50:41 PM

Quote :

" Sorry, not happening. She plays the victim too much. "Oh all these boys are ganging up on me"

Please, in specific detail, tell me when she has done this.

Hasn't she been criticized more often for being a hardass bitch?

2/8/2008 4:04:55 PM

^Except that time she cried to try to confront that criticism.

2/8/2008 4:20:10 PM

exactly. one time.

(and it was fake)

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 4:33 PM. Reason : a]

2/8/2008 4:32:51 PM

Erios once gave up Starcraft for Lent.

2/8/2008 4:45:04 PM

^^ not that it matters, but she has cried twice now.

- the day before the New Hampshire primary
- the day before super Tuesday

By "cry" I mean get all misty-eyed and stuff.

Coincidence?

For me it is the steadfast refusal to make her finances transparent as well as her cheap shot husband tactics that I find most reprehensible from a current political standpoint.

[Edited on February 8, 2008 at 6:02 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2008 6:01:53 PM

To be fair to Hillary, it probably doesn't help when the person you're running against is treated as a near political messiah. When contrasted against him, almost anyone would look dull and mean spirited.

2/8/2008 6:08:19 PM

Quote :

"And yet there was something just a wee bit creepy about the mass messianism — 'We are the ones we've been waiting for' — of the Super Tuesday speech and the recent turn of the Obama campaign."

Quote :

"The Obama campaign all too often is about how wonderful the Obama campaign is."

--Joe Klein

http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1710721,00.html

2/8/2008 6:18:04 PM

Quote :

"a lot of the reasons healthcare costs are up is partly to blame for the government."

Super sentence dude. Take lessons from user Ahmet?

Quote :

"seeing how the gov't handles many other programs I do not see a univeral health care program being either efficient or effective. The bureacracy would be rediculous. If any kind of socialized system were to be created it should be with the individual states. This way they could customize their program to meet that of their population and no favortism with allocated funds illustrated depending how what states have the more powerful congressmen in DC. Not that I support state UHC either but this would be a lot more efficient then a Fed led initiative."

Another example of sterling TWW analysis. I'm sure people in North Dakota, a State that probably can't afford a cutting edge health system, would have no problems going to California for health care and draining their resources.

I'm sure you'll come up with an equally fantastic scenario to cover this though.

2/8/2008 7:12:02 PM

soo....

No one is forcing them to live in N. Dakota. Life is all about trade offs. I am sure their are certain benefits that a family living in N. Dakota would have that someone living in the middle of LA would not. If there was a medical condition that required more advanced technology then its not too hard to cross the border.

2/8/2008 9:38:08 PM

HUR, learn how to post a resized picture from wikipedia!

2/9/2008 12:12:30 AM

Other than the fact that I am totally against her politically (we share zero common ground) the other reason I can't pull for Hillary is that if she wins Rush Limbaugh will once again have something to bitch loudly about to his stupid fucktard listeners. I'm sure somewhere Rush is beating off with a pie chart showing Hillary in the lead.

2/9/2008 1:19:41 AM

I'm not really a fan of Hillary's but I agree 100 percent with this thread.

2/9/2008 4:00:02 AM

ding dong the bitch is dead

2/12/2008 9:04:54 PM

wow

I loathe Hillary but ^ is a little presumptuous.

i hope so though.

2/12/2008 9:07:57 PM

She should start crying right now.

2/12/2008 9:10:57 PM

she got my attention today. She said she was going to push a 10k subsidy for ppl who buy a plugin electric hybrid (pretty sure the only one that'll be out by the end of her first term will be the volt, so its a safe bet).... but would also give 5 billion to auto mfrs to create 5 million jobs.... now that I type it myself, it seems a bit pie in the sky....

2/12/2008 10:53:08 PM

Both of those plans sound shitty. Why the fuck should I pay for american car makers to be poorly run?

2/12/2008 11:14:12 PM

I've always liked their stance on environmental and alternate energies. She's stressed for a long time that creating alternate fuels could provide millions of jobs for the automobile industry, scientists, farmers, and many others. She compared it to the "information technology" boom of the 90's that made our economy so rich.

[Edited on February 12, 2008 at 11:23 PM. Reason : She not they]

2/12/2008 11:20:35 PM

She's goin down down in a LELEULEULAH
and shugah she's goin down swingin'

2/12/2008 11:21:26 PM

Quote :

"Why the fuck should I pay for american car makers to be poorly run? "

I feel the same way about people poorly running thier lives, finances, health, mortgages, etc. etc.

2/12/2008 11:36:34 PM

Quote :

"Both of those plans sound shitty. Why the fuck should I pay for american car makers to be poorly run"

Attention numb skull the gov't already does this. Depending on GOP or Democrat the recipient varies. Dems like green liberal sounding shit, GOP favors farms tobacco and USA #1 autos.

2/12/2008 11:36:59 PM

Attn numbskull: I'm opposed to those other things too.

2/12/2008 11:40:34 PM

very well Ron Paul 08'


oh nvm our controlling aristocracy blackballed him

2/12/2008 11:47:42 PM

Last I checked, mccain was against farm subsidies, ethanol subsidies, and manufacturing subsidies.

2/12/2008 11:54:56 PM

hey, all I care about is subsidizing viable tech. plugin-electric/range-extending-electric is different from our existing "prius" notions of "hybrid". Plugins legitimately moves energy usage to a more efficient, more flexible, and ultimately cleaner, cheaper, more politically local source. Ppl get to use electric in their daily driving and don't have to be worried about range limitations because of the gasoline motor. I wanna make sure that this tech (which is supposedly going to cost $40k for the first chevy volts) catches on quickly enough to cause imitation by naysayers (toyota). Diesel and Hydrogen face political struggles that plugin-electric-hybrid doesn't. Pure electrics like the Tesla Roadster will take much longer to become viable for mainstream use because they require much larger batteries and are much more limited by range.

(I apologize for any diversion from hillary my comments might cause to the thread)

2/13/2008 3:47:14 AM

If Hillary Clinton can't handle "hate rhetoric" she doesn't have any business running for president. President Bush has dealt with more hate rhetoric than probably any president in history and, like him or not, he has always been good at ignoring the critics and doing what he thinks is the right thing.

2/13/2008 1:59:53 PM

^ I think the whole point of the threat is that her hate rhetoric is unfounded. People hate her b\c of Bill or because her image, but when you ask them to provide specifics (Such as the poor job Bush has done on Iraq), then they provide little substantial evidence.

2/13/2008 2:25:15 PM

^^Well Hillary can handle hate rhetoric, but even people who don't support her (like the topic creator and several others I've read) can see that it's out of control and has been for awhile.

2/13/2008 2:48:58 PM

Erios is sick of the Hillary Clinton hate rhetoric after a couple short months

Good thing he's still not tired of the George W. Bush hate rhetoric after 7 years and counting

2/13/2008 3:15:44 PM