"Is evolution true?"







God bless the U.S.A.!

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

2/18/2008 10:58:48 AM

USA #1, there ain't nones way i be evolved from some monkey this bullshit is just dem liberals trying to brainwash the good ole boys of america.

2/18/2008 11:00:43 AM

truly embarrassing....


it would be interesting to see more countries there, instead of mostly europe and east europe/former soviet. How do we compare to South America, Asia, the Middle East, Africa?


[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 11:08 AM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 11:02:38 AM

This is pretty old, I remember there being a thread on it a long time ago.

2/18/2008 11:04:26 AM

thank god we know how to make money

otherwise we would be completely useless

2/18/2008 11:04:37 AM

everyone from Iceland to Cyprus hates our freedoms

2/18/2008 11:12:50 AM

Its hard to believe that 40% dont believe in evolution. However, americans always surprise me. Just look at this election.

2/18/2008 11:24:42 AM

^ Years back, I posted a thread on a Gallup poll that showed 1 in 3 Americans describe themselves as Biblical Literalists. Tells you something about who's carrying the water in this chart...

Anyone else notice America's almost a perfect 40/40/20 split?

And the big fact lack of Russia and China?

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason : ...]

2/18/2008 11:24:57 AM

Quote :

"everyone from Iceland to Cyprus hates our freedoms"

and they are working with the terrorists.

2/18/2008 11:25:55 AM

Quote :

"Years back, I posted a thread on a Gallup poll that showed 1 in 3 Americans describe themselves as Biblical Literalists."

And I'm willing to bet that these same retards are also King-James-Only nutjobs. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who claims to be a biblical literalist, yet hasn't read the bible in its original hebrew and greek, is automatically full of shit.

2/18/2008 11:28:50 AM

Are you suggesting self-described textual literalists should thoroughly examine the text upon which their faith rests?

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 11:32 AM. Reason : ...]

2/18/2008 11:32:10 AM

It couldn't hurt.

2/18/2008 11:47:50 AM

I heard on the news driving home the other week that 40% of americans are planning on winning the lottery for their retirement. How can people be so stupid?

However, for every idiot there is a politican ready to "help". sad

2/18/2008 11:56:16 AM

^Depending on who conducted the survey, the results may have been stacked by polling only poor urban communities and/or poor rural/trailer park communities. I've seen a couple polls reported to have similar results, when in reality the polling area was isolated to inner-city ghettos and such.

2/18/2008 12:04:34 PM

^regardless, whoever answered that question with "they plan to win the lottery" is a moron.

I know for my retirement Bill Gates will send me a check for 3Million. Until then, ill just piss away what money I do make and wait for it to happen.

2/18/2008 12:09:01 PM

My bills are paid by my ability to help people retire.

I deal with the people you're talking about every day.

Forty percent seems off, but not FAR off.

2/18/2008 12:16:58 PM

^it reminds me of that moster jobs commecial.

"you see buying lottery tickets are not a good investment strategy"

2/18/2008 12:40:58 PM

Quote :

"I heard on the news driving home the other week that 40% of americans are planning on winning the lottery for their retirement."

that has to be people just screwing around. i thought america was dumb, but WOW!!

2/18/2008 12:56:14 PM

well, just think about how stupid the average person is

then remember that half of the people are even dumber than that.

2/18/2008 1:00:58 PM

I mean, they could have been joking. Is that really so hard to believe? If someone said, do you plan to win the lottery, they might say "hell yeah" or something to that effect.

2/18/2008 2:21:33 PM

Within that number I'm sure a lot don't believe in evolution for religious reasons, but the ones I've met and asked why they didn't think it was likely usually seemed to have no idea what it was. They'd say stuff like "theres no way one animal is gonna just transform into another, no ones ever seen that happen" At that point you can waste a few hours trying to explain it to them, or just give up right away.

2/18/2008 2:38:28 PM

A Census-based economic analysis found that about 40 percent of Americans earning $35,000 or less believe they are more likely to accumulate a $500,000 nest egg by winning a lottery or sweepstakes. For Americans earning $15,000-$25,000, 45 percent thought a lottery was the best way to acquire a half million dollars. Only 30 percent felt they could accumulate such money by saving and investing.

These attitudes show many Americans with limited resources are poorly informed and are desperately in need of information and education in money management, adds Waddell.

"Education can help give people the confidence they need to save money and show them how consistent savings of even small amounts of money can make a huge difference in their financial security."

Most families can build assets of several hundred thousand dollars during their lifetime simply by saving monthly, taking advantage of employer's retirement options and building equity through home ownership. This can be accomplished without depriving oneself or one's family of anything, says Waddell.

SOURCE: DR. FRED WADDELL, Family Resource Management Specialist, Alabama Cooperative Extension System,

I dont believe that was the study they were referring too on the radio though. It might have been read on the dave ramsey show. I dont remember, my memory is shit.

2/18/2008 2:55:43 PM

Do european countries have the same stereotypical ignorant uneducated masses that we seem to have here.

2/18/2008 2:56:12 PM

^^yep. our population is WOEFULLY (it would me comical if it didn't cost me money or negatively impact their children) ignorant of just about all facets of personal finance. Hell, if they could just wrap their minds around the concepts of opportunity cost and compounding interest, it would go a long, long way.


and for most people, if you didn't accumulate a $500,000 nest egg by retirement age, you probably did something badly wrong.

2/18/2008 3:04:08 PM

Quote :

"These attitudes show many Americans with limited resources are poorly informed and are desperately in need of information and education in money management, adds Waddell."

Well if they did not drop out of high school or got a higher education they likely would be earning more then 15K a year. I have no sympathy for their ignorance.

2/18/2008 3:08:21 PM

Quote :

"Only 30 percent felt they could accumulate such money by saving and investing."

I understand this completely. $500,000 is an absurd amount of money. If you make minimum wage, that's around fifty years of work.

Personally, I'm planning on the Singularity making retirement meaningless.

If that doesn't happen, I doubt I'll have half a million bucks in the bank.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:23 PM. Reason : $texas]

2/18/2008 3:23:15 PM

A survey by the Center for Studying Health System Changes found that almost 20 percent of Americans -- 35.4 million people without health insurance -- are offered coverage but turn it down. High cost is the reason given by two-thirds of those workers who forgo employer insurance; many which are low-income workers. The rest said they didn't need it or didn't want it.


Yep. Good ole, my money is for things I want, not for things I need. Government is for providing that.

100 bucks a month from age 22 to 65 at 8% will give you 400k. Most everyone can afford to put away 100 bucks a month. But those new cell phones are TOO good to pass up.

Considering the average american has a car payment of over 400 a month for an average of 60 month financing.

If you did that 400 a month over that same terms, you would have 1.7 million.

2/18/2008 3:28:59 PM

OMG, eyedrb managed to turn a thread about how only half of Americans believe in evolution into a thread about how poor people are stupid in 15 posts. Jesus... Fucking... Christ...

2/18/2008 3:42:36 PM

lol, go Japan. Out of the educated ones countries, they have the most that just say "I don't know", which I'm thinking is the Japanese politeness (what if the person polling actually thinks it's wrong!).

^^ and it's not trivial to get a solid 8% on an investment, and that doesn't even take into account inflation. It's epically not trivial for someone only able to save $100 a month. Anyone ascribing to the plan as laid out here is going to wind up getting like 2% real growth of their investment and they won't have anything near 400k in 22-year-old dollars in the end.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : ]

2/18/2008 3:43:03 PM

Quote :

"Do european countries have the same stereotypical ignorant uneducated masses that we seem to have here."

this will come off sounding like flame bait, but a lot of the "stereotypical ignorant uneducated masses" in America is a direct result of the pervasiveness of religion, and especially evangelical Christianity. It's no secret that evangelicals of any religion are among the most anti-science and progress, dogmatic and ill-informed people out there.

And with respect to Europe - no, the "ignorant uneducated masses" isn't as bad, I think mostly because of the relative lack of public religion.
Can you even imagine what kind of uproar we would have in this country if a national (or even state) politician said something like this:

Quote :

"you talk about [Christianity] in our system and, frankly, people do think you're a nutter""

that was Tony Blair, just a couple months ago
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/nov/26/religion.tonyblair

Look at what one of his advisers said. It's like the UK is Bizarro World of the US

Quote :

"One of his allies, John Hutton, the business and enterprise secretary, told Sky News yesterday it was disappointing that politicians felt unable to be more open about their faith. "I think it would be good if we could get to the point where if someone is a person of Christian faith or belief and wanted to talk about that openly, there wouldn't be screaming headlines about the 'nutters' and the 'God squad', which I think demeans faith and personal integrity," Hutton said."

in the UK, if you publicly announce that your a staunch Christian, you run the risk of being ridiculed. In the US, if you publicly announce you're anything but a "man of strong faith and Christian values" or some such shit, you've just kissed your political career goodbye.

2/18/2008 3:44:16 PM

If the GOP divorced the christian church i probably would vote GOP 90% of the time.

2/18/2008 3:53:46 PM

Quote :

"100 bucks a month from age 22 to 65 at 8% will give you 400k. Most everyone can afford to put away 100 bucks a month."

Well, a hundred bucks a month is significant, and 8% is a pretty good rate.

2/18/2008 3:55:11 PM

Quote :

"Well, a hundred bucks a month is significant"

maybe when you're 22, but it shouldnt be for too many years after that

2/18/2008 3:59:13 PM

Quote :

"Well if they did not drop out of high school or got a higher education they likely would be earning more then 15K a year. I have no sympathy for their ignorance. "

You're missing the point. The point is that you need not make a really large income at any point in your life to amass a very significant amount of wealth through proper investing. However, many (most?) people don't realize this and see a sum of, for example, $500,000 as being totally unachievable, aside from a stroke of nearly impossible luck like winning the lottery. The truth is that almost everyone could do it pretty easily--they either choose to be irresponsible or are simply ignorant of the simple process needed.

Quote :

"I understand this completely. $500,000 is an absurd amount of money. If you make minimum wage, that's around fifty years of work. "

Few people make minimum wage, and almost no one makes minimum wage for a lifetime or anywhere close to it. I mean, it's not hard at all to make, say, $7-8 dollars per hour. You don't need any education or skill to do that.

Also, $500,000 is NOT an absurd amount of money. That, along with whatever Social Security you get, will be enough to subsist on a lower middle class lifestyle ($20,000 to maybe 25,000 per year, plus Social Security) through retirement. That's about it. Not only is it not absurd, it's pretty much the bare minimum for what you should be looking to accumulate. The good news is that if you start if your mid 20s, you could retire in your mid 60s with that amount of money by investing a steady $100/month (and getting very average returns in your investments).

Quote :

"Well, a hundred bucks a month is significant, and 8% is a pretty good rate. "

Sure, it's significant, but the vast majority of people can afford that. I mean, most people have a car payment...buy a $5000 less expensive car, and there you go--$100 per month. Smoke a pack a day? Knock that shit off--at LEAST $100/month (and plenty of other benefits). Go out to eat a lot? I bet you could trim back on that. Talk on your cell phone a lot? Spend a few less minutes or text messages per month, and you'll save a few bucks (not to mention if you don't buy the newest, most stylish cell phone to begin with).

Or you could do a combination of these things...buy a $2500 less expensive car, get something that gets a little better gas mileage than that truck you don't tow or haul anything with, eat 2-3 meals less per month at restaurants, and you're pretty much there. There are a shit ton of different ways to scrounge up $100 per month, either buy making more money or spending less.

The truth is that if you treat that $100 like your power bill--something that you HAVE to pay--and have it deducted on pay day where you never even see it, you'll adapt the rest of your lifestyle without even thinking about it. I know, because I do this with over $1000 per month.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 4:09 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

2/18/2008 4:00:44 PM

Quote :

"OMG, eyedrb managed to turn a thread about how only half of Americans believe in evolution into a thread about how poor people are stupid in 15 posts. Jesus... Fucking... Christ... "

Impressed? I thought the thread was more about how stupid americans are.

Quote :

"Anyone ascribing to the plan as laid out here is going to wind up getting like 2% real growth of their investment and they won't have anything near 400k in 22-year-old dollars in the end. "

Quote :

"8% is a pretty good rate."

The dow jones has had an average return of 13% over the last ten years. And that with a fallout after 9/11. 8% average over some 43 years is not impossible and I think I actually lowballed it. You are being short sighted and assuming you leave it in a bank of america savings, then yeah, you wont return shit.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 4:15 PM. Reason : .]

2/18/2008 4:06:21 PM

Quote :

"truly embarrassing...."

2/18/2008 4:08:21 PM

^^ 8% return over 43 years in the stock market would be VERY disappointing.

8% is a nice, conservative number to use in planning for individuals, because you can't stay "all in" the stock market right up until retirement (i mean, you can...but you're taking on an inordinate amount of risk. as you move towards more stable investments when you approach retirement, it lowers your return...so in your 20s-30s, you might average 12% or more...in your 40s-50s, you get into somewhat safer investments and average, say, 9-10%...in the last, ohh, 10 years before you plan to retire, you might only get 6%).

But yeah, if you don't average 8% over your lifetime...again, you did something badly wrong. I hope to average noticeably higher than that (and MUCH higher than that for the next 15 years or so).

2/18/2008 4:14:23 PM

Quote :

"Also, $500,000 is NOT an absurd amount of money."

From my point of view at 25, it is. I understand how it'd be nice to have to retirement and all that, but it's still $texas.

Quote :

"The dow jones has had an average return of 13% over the last ten years."

Is that adjusted for inflation? The real average from 1871-1998 was 6.3%. It depends.

2/18/2008 5:12:06 PM

Well sure, it seems insurmountable. When you break down what's actually needed to achieve it, though--and for that matter, when you break down how small that sum of money is in terms of what you'll need in retirement--it becomes much, much smaller.


and the consumer price index averages about 3% per year.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 5:47 PM. Reason : although if you keep waiting to start saving, retirement becomes exponentially harder to achieve]

2/18/2008 5:46:34 PM

Quote :

"although if you keep waiting to start saving, retirement becomes exponentially harder to achieve"

Indeed. That's one of the joys of compound interest.

2/18/2008 5:59:04 PM

GoldenViper, I don't know if you're super rich or if you're just playing devil's advocate...but if you haven't started saving for retirement yet, you need to start right now.

I started when I was 16, and I'm a huge fuck-up.

It's the smart, responsible thing to do.

$50 a month. $20 a month. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that you start now.

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 6:10 PM. Reason : Like, I don't think this is a joke or something to be argued.]

2/18/2008 6:09:34 PM

I have a little bit in saving (with a low return), but I'm seriously not planning on retirement at all.

I'll stick with the ignorant masses on this one.

2/18/2008 6:16:24 PM

The Dumbing Of America
By Susan Jacoby

Americans aren't just dumb -- we're proud of it

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/15/AR2008021502901.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

Quote :

"That leads us to the third and final factor behind the new American dumbness: not lack of knowledge per se but arrogance about that lack of knowledge. The problem is not just the things we do not know (consider the one in five American adults who, according to the National Science Foundation, thinks the sun revolves around the Earth); it's the alarming number of Americans who have smugly concluded that they do not need to know such things in the first place. Call this anti-rationalism -- a syndrome that is particularly dangerous to our public institutions and discourse. Not knowing a foreign language or the location of an important country is a manifestation of ignorance; denying that such knowledge matters is pure anti-rationalism. The toxic brew of anti-rationalism and ignorance hurts discussions of U.S. public policy on topics from health care to taxation."

[Edited on February 18, 2008 at 6:37 PM. Reason : quote]

2/18/2008 6:24:16 PM

^^ you're young...need to get that in more aggressive investments (not pink sheets or anything, but at least get into the stock market).

Quote :

"I started when I was 16, and I'm a huge fuck-up. It's the smart, responsible thing to do. $50 a month. $20 a month. It doesn't matter. The important thing is that you start now. "

yep...$100 that you save today will be $1000 that you don't have to save tomorrow. Starting right now falls under the "work smarter, not harder" category.

It's not that the amount totally doesn't matter, but yeah...if you can't, say, max out a Roth IRA right now, that sure as hell shouldn't stop you from doing SOMETHING. $100/month, even $50 month if that's really all you can do (be honest with yourself, though).

Another benefit of having investments automatically drafted from your pay is that some institutions will waive minimum buy-ins if you do that (i.e., if you normally have to have a minimum of $5000 to buy into a mutual fund, some institutions will waive that and let you in for little or no money upfront, so long as you set up a modest montly allotment).

2/18/2008 7:08:32 PM

saving early was the best thing i have done and am doing.

i am putting away at least $1,200 cash every month.

and also another $1,225 every month in the form 3 payments: mortgage ($800), life insurance ($285), and retirement plan with my bank ($140).

[the mortgage will last another 6 years only, but the other 2 payments are for another 30 years]

2/18/2008 7:41:29 PM

out of all you're putting away, you're keeping THAT much of it in cash?

2/18/2008 7:53:10 PM

I like how some countries n=500 others its 1000.

But where is Canada, China, Russia, and Egypt.

2/18/2008 9:23:25 PM

but guys i thought i can use all my money on sports cars, booze, drugs, and bling bling. isn't uncle sam supposed to pay for my retirement and healthcare

2/18/2008 9:56:18 PM

Quote :

"because you can't stay "all in" the stock market right up until retirement"

Very very good point that a lot of people who lost 40+% of their retirement savings during the last big correction didn't understand. My uncle, who's damn smart with money, began shifting stocks to more conservative and liquid investments as retirement neared. In his 20's he was about 80% stocks and 10% money market and 10% bonds. When he actually retired it was much more diversified and much lower risk- think about 20% of a much larger sum of money was in an insured money market account at 5% interest.

2/18/2008 11:18:53 PM

→

2/18/2008 11:19:51 PM