?

2/19/2008 10:51:17 AM

2/19/2008 10:52:05 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

2/19/2008 10:52:54 AM

dude...

seriously....

c'mon.

2/19/2008 10:58:59 AM

w
o
w

2/19/2008 11:01:31 AM

***This thread has been brought to you by Fox News***

2/19/2008 11:04:41 AM

he's in the Nation.

2/19/2008 11:10:54 AM

BLACK HUSSEIN OSAMA

2/19/2008 11:17:48 AM

just asking cause i dont like shiites that much....i find the sunnis more reasonable


lol

2/19/2008 11:49:19 AM

sadly, i think dnl's retarded viewpoint is the same as many retarded americans' viewpoints...they may not know the difference between shiites or sunnis, but they're damned sure obama's a dirty muslim

2/19/2008 11:54:58 AM

fuck muslims

2/19/2008 11:55:09 AM

I bet they'd rather a muslim than an atheist.

2/19/2008 11:59:29 AM

I doubt that

2/19/2008 11:59:58 AM

communist

2/19/2008 12:02:04 PM

^^message_topic.aspx?topic=397793

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:02 PM. Reason : slow]

2/19/2008 12:02:37 PM

exactly

2/19/2008 12:03:41 PM

yeah Americans would rather have a muslim or jewish president than an atheist

for some reason Americans do not trust atheists... they're despised by theists the world over

2/19/2008 12:06:07 PM

i think that makes sense, though (not the hated part)...unless you're one of those religion-hating atheists (as opposed to the live-and-let-live kind), doesn't it (sort of) make sense to want to have an (almost all-powerful) leader who believes he answers to a higher power for his actions in life? while i know having a "religious" person in power doesn't guarantee anything, it's comforting to a lot of people, i think

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:21 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 12:20:00 PM

^ i can maybe agree with that statement. as long as its your usual run of the mill religious person. however i would be extremely uncomfortable with someone like mike huckabee/god told me to amend the constitution type of religious leaders

2/19/2008 12:22:30 PM

it is not impossible for an atheist to be president and still feel accountable

aren't the citizens of the United States an enormous (and tangible, I might add) bastion of power?

the President governs, supposedly, through the mandate of the people

2/19/2008 12:24:20 PM

^ well that is the idea. but theories rarely pan out so easily in life.

2/19/2008 12:25:25 PM

oh and for the record I am one of those "religion-hating atheists"
we call ourselves anti-theists

I don't hate religious people, though
I do think they're making a bad choice

but the institution of religion should be eliminated

^ you're speaking pretty glibly about the "theory" of democracy

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:27 PM. Reason : are you sure you aren't a terrorist?]

2/19/2008 12:26:02 PM

i'm probably on some kind of black list somewhere. i'm just on the fence about modern democracy (as it is now in our country). actually i'm probably off the fence and running through a field of uber-liberal la la land. but my point is just the disparity between the ideas of democracy and the theories (going back beyond the founding of this country) versus democracy in action here and now.

2/19/2008 12:31:59 PM

I ended up an anarchist

which is what happens when the doorknob hits you on the ass while passing through the door between liberal and conservative

2/19/2008 12:33:35 PM

Quote :

"TRINITY UNIFIED CHURCH O' CHRIST"

2/19/2008 12:37:10 PM

^^

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:37 PM. Reason : dammit]

2/19/2008 12:37:42 PM

^^^hahaha definitely. well i don't mean liberal in the american liberal v. conservative sense either. in my idealistic mode i'm probably a socialist. but again...theories that look good on paper and do not pan out effectively (or at all). i'm also fascinated by capitalism. all and all i'm just a bundle of complicated contradiction.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:38 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 12:38:07 PM

Quote :

"all and all i'm just a bundle of complicated contradiction."

my kind of woman

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:39 PM. Reason : haha]

2/19/2008 12:39:08 PM

^^ you are a socialist - you keep thinking of things in terms of economy

I like to think in terms of natural rights and ethical responsibility

2/19/2008 12:42:38 PM

Quote :

"however i would be extremely uncomfortable with someone like mike huckabee/god told me to amend the constitution type of religious leaders"

agreed...i'm a religious person, but i don't like the crazy kind

Quote :

"it is not impossible for an atheist to be president and still feel accountable aren't the citizens of the United States an enormous (and tangible, I might add) bastion of power? the President governs, supposedly, through the mandate of the people"

you're fooling yourself if you, for one moment, believe our presidency is determined democratically...if it were, you'd have no electoral college and popular vote would rule

Quote :

"oh and for the record I am one of those "religion-hating atheists" we call ourselves anti-theists I don't hate religious people, though I do think they're making a bad choice but the institution of religion should be eliminated"

then you're just as bad as the religious nuts you claim to dislike...religion can refer to any wide range of beliefs and belief-charged actions, and those can range anywhere from suicide bombers to those who dedicate their lives living in poverty helping out the poor

i guess mother theresa made a bad choice? you obviously weren't one of the poor...you don't have to subscribe to a religion yourself, but since there's not a single thing you can say that applies to the entire institution of religion (in all its forms), hating the institution of religion as a whole makes you just as ignorant and biased as those you claim to hate

2/19/2008 12:47:17 PM

sure thing, I'm a fanatic
lets see how many abortion clinics sunday schools I bomb
or how many witches I burn at the stake church picnics I rudely interrupt


I think Mother Theresa made a bad choice when she proselytized to the sick and dying
we ALL have a responsibility as human beings to feed and clothe the poor, educate the ignorant, heal the sick and let the dying keep their dignity

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 12:58 PM. Reason : -]

2/19/2008 12:57:00 PM

Quote :

"we ALL have a responsibility as human beings to feed and clothe the poor, educate the ignorant, heal the sick and let the dying keep their dignity"

agreed

2/19/2008 1:00:15 PM

in my estimation, I lose nothing by believing in myself rather than believing in God
I stand to gain all that I can achieve

whereas you lose your autonomy and your rational mind by believing in God
and gain a sycophantic disposition and a false sense of security

in my opinion

2/19/2008 1:02:46 PM

Quote :

"educate the ignorant"

Is that why you two are having a semi-intellegent conversation in a DnL thread?

2/19/2008 1:02:57 PM

fuck it, I've got to go to school

2/19/2008 1:07:39 PM

Quote :

"i think that makes sense, though (not the hated part)...unless you're one of those religion-hating atheists (as opposed to the live-and-let-live kind), doesn't it (sort of) make sense to want to have an (almost all-powerful) leader who believes he answers to a higher power for his actions in life? while i know having a "religious" person in power doesn't guarantee anything, it's comforting to a lot of people, i think"

It's not enough that people have morals or feel the need to answer to themselves instead of God? Heaven forbid leaders without religion would do something CRAZY like that! While it might be comforting to those who are religious, it's absolutely incorrect to put such a moral weight only the religious. Atheists aren't amoral. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to have an atheist president, though I'm not an atheist myself. Hell, look at what our current president professes to do in the name of his religion.

Quote :

"it is not impossible for an atheist to be president and still feel accountable"

Exactly.

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:11 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 1:07:56 PM

most people seem to just accept government as inevitable

I believe in democracy
there's a reason it (could be) better than the rest

however, we've simply supplanted the tyranny of the minority with a tyranny of the majority
we should accept the sovereignty of each individual and subordinate the abstract concept of the state to the concrete human being

2/19/2008 1:11:15 PM

Quote :

"however, we've simply supplanted the tyranny of the minority with a tyranny of the majority"

yes.

...some may even throw out the term despotism. (just food for thought)

2/19/2008 1:14:21 PM

at least his wife announced earlier yesterday that she is "for the first time in my life I am proud of my country"


i mean. yeah obviously, nothing is to be proud of, not the unification of the nation after 9/11. not the rally against communism that brought it down and the fall of the berlin wall... nope.


after all, she's in the top %1 earnings tax-bracket in the country. she lived a horrible life where she was racially abused and her husband chased by dogs and sprayed with firehoses.

yeah, let's keep on believing that his 'soul' is going to fix america. oh that's right, only a liberal can use the word 'soul' in a campaign and not ignite 40 million state/religion seperatists into a burning fire about how they are mixing the 2.


free ticket for obama.. 08'!!!! let the media win again!!!

2/19/2008 1:35:54 PM

Quote :

"not the unification of the nation after 9/11. not the rally against communism that brought it down and the fall of the berlin wall"

THE TWO GREATEST MOMENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY!!!!!!!!!!!

2/19/2008 1:37:17 PM

in her lifetime. it sure as fuck is.

2/19/2008 1:39:22 PM

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(_)                         | (_)/ _|     |_   _|                  
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| | '_ \  | '_ ` _ \| | | | | | |  _/ _ \   | |    / _` | '_ ` _ \ 
| | | | | | | | | | | |_| | | | | ||  __/  _| |_  | (_| | | | | | |
|_|_| |_| |_| |_| |_|\__, | |_|_|_| \___|  \___/   \__,_|_| |_| |_|
                      __/ |                                        
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                          | |        / _|                  
 _ __  _ __ ___  _   _  __| |   ___ | |_   _ __ ___  _   _ 
| '_ \| '__/ _ \| | | |/ _` |  / _ \|  _| | '_ ` _ \| | | |
| |_) | | | (_) | |_| | (_| | | (_) | |   | | | | | | |_| |
| .__/|_|  \___/ \__,_|\__,_|  \___/|_|   |_| |_| |_|\__, |
| |                                                   __/ |
|_|                                                  |___/ 
                       _              
                      | |             
  ___ ___  _   _ _ __ | |_ _ __ _   _ 
 / __/ _ \| | | | '_ \| __| '__| | | |
| (_| (_) | |_| | | | | |_| |  | |_| |
 \___\___/ \__,_|_| |_|\__|_|   \__, |
                                 __/ |
                                |___/ 

2/19/2008 1:41:43 PM

you act like the country couldn't use some improvement

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:43 PM. Reason : but sure, leave if you like]

2/19/2008 1:42:55 PM

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN GIIIIIIT OUT

2/19/2008 1:43:07 PM

^

2/19/2008 1:44:34 PM

She said in her Adult life - Which is pretty much my whole life

So I'm with her on that one!

2/19/2008 1:45:15 PM

Quote :

"IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN GIIIIIIT OUT"

2/19/2008 1:46:26 PM

^^ Oh goodness, don't CORRECT him in his angry tirade. They get grumpy over things like that.

In context:

Quote :

"What we've learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback and let me tell you something, for the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud. And I feel privileged to be a part of even witnessing this, traveling around states all over this country and being reminded that there is more that unites us than divides us..."

[Edited on February 19, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : .]

2/19/2008 1:46:28 PM

Quote :

"whereas you lose your autonomy and your rational mind by believing in God and gain a sycophantic disposition and a false sense of security"

Wow, I don't agree with that at all. How does my believing in God make me lose my autonomy and give me a false sense of security? That's a very sweeping generalization and one that represents a sliver of a minority of people who claim a religion.

2/19/2008 1:48:12 PM

Quote :

"She said in her Adult life - Which is pretty much my whole life"

Are you saying that he misrepresented her quote to justify his point of view?

I'm shocked.

2/19/2008 1:48:40 PM