He visited Iraq

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/02/iraq.ahmadinejad/index.html

The part that struck my eye was

Quote :

"Ahmadinejad shunned the security measures followed by many other leaders on visits to Baghdad, riding from Baghdad's airport in a civilian-style sedan -- and not an armored military vehicle or helicopter -- to central Baghdad."

I would be afraid of driving through Baghdad in an ordinary sedan, epically if it was identifiable. This reminds me of when Putin visited Iran in the mist of speculation that attempts on his life would be made.

Regardless of whatever else they do, i got to hand it to some of these world leaders for showing they have a helluva nut sack.

3/2/2008 9:30:35 AM

i wonder if thread can has more posts than views?

3/2/2008 10:56:07 AM

Cue Prince Harry in Afghanistan.

3/2/2008 11:15:38 AM

Why would the terrorists attack their leader?

3/2/2008 4:15:28 PM

this thread is a 2/10

[Edited on March 2, 2008 at 4:34 PM. Reason : >.<]

3/2/2008 4:33:08 PM

i'm sure if your government is funding and supplying the insurgents, you don't have shit to worry about

a 2/10 is overly optimistic

3/2/2008 5:28:04 PM

no, i'm pretty sure you do.

[Edited on March 2, 2008 at 9:01 PM. Reason : you know, since there's only ONE group of insurgents]

3/2/2008 8:59:53 PM

Quote :

"Why would the terrorists attack their leader?"

3/2/2008 9:00:41 PM

last I heard, Iraqis don't hold Iran in all that high of regard.

I'm sure they're more worried about eating dinner, getting electricity, not getting blown up, but this isn't a goddam 2-sided war.

3/2/2008 9:02:52 PM

that was ballsy

the CIA could have taken him out

3/2/2008 9:43:54 PM

Quote :

""Why would the terrorists attack their leader?""

Right... the Sunni (Al Qaida-style) insurgents are supplied by Iran, huh? Sunnis would love to take him out if they could... Bin Laden considers all Shias to be infidels.

Sunnis have been doing tha vast majority of the suicide bombings targetting civilians in Iraq, and they don't like/support Ahmedinejad, and vice versa.

3/3/2008 6:53:45 AM

I'm fairly certain the original comment was tongue-in-cheek

but

The enemy of my enemy is my friend

I wonder how much that may apply. Who do the Sunnis hate more, America or Shias?

3/3/2008 10:55:45 AM

^ True!

3/3/2008 1:25:37 PM

Quote :

"Why would the terrorists attack their leader?"

3/3/2008 1:31:10 PM

durka durka durka

3/3/2008 1:34:10 PM

Iran to Face New UN Sanctions on Monday

Quote :

"UNITED NATIONS (AP) — The U.N. Security Council is certain to approve a third round of sanctions against Iran on Monday for refusing to suspend uranium enrichment, but it's doubtful the resolution will receive the unanimous support of the first two. The five permanent council members with veto power — the U.S., Russia, China, Britain and France — are all backing the new resolution, and they have more than the nine 'yes' votes needed for approval in the 15-member council."

Quote :

"The Americans and their European allies countered that the report confirmed Iran has continued to enrich uranium, in defiance of Security Council resolutions. They continue to demand that Tehran suspend its uranium centrifuge program. The IAEA also reported that Iran rejected new documents that link Tehran to missile and explosives experiments and other work connected to a possible nuclear weapons program."

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hIYBt5PA9hCg85Ze1WxFQB8btuNgD8V623F83

Didn't the NIE say that Iran wasn't doing this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVBBMzbW2h8

3/3/2008 1:46:18 PM

Didn't all our intelligence organizations say there was no reason to believe Iraq was developing WMD in 2003?

3/3/2008 6:43:25 PM

^ Sweet Jesus. Do you really want to go down that well-worn path again?

3/4/2008 2:03:27 PM

yeah, really, frog.

no one wants to remember the lies that brought us to this endless war and our impending economic recession.

what are you trying to prove, anyhow?

3/4/2008 5:07:04 PM

^ *Sigh*

Bill Clinton's 1998 State Of The Union Address

Quote :

"Together we must also confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation's wealth not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons, and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job, finding and destroying more of Iraq's arsenal than was destroyed during the entire Gulf War. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats, when I say to Saddam Hussein: You cannot defy the will of the world. (APPLAUSE) And when I say to him, you have used weapons of mass destruction before. We are determined to deny you the capacity to use them again. (APPLAUSE)"

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/index2.html

A 1992 Al Gore speech

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gc1h1wg7LeQ

[Edited on March 4, 2008 at 5:50 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2008 5:48:20 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

zzzzzzzzzzzzz *snore* *snort* *snork*


b- b- b- b- but but but but CLINTON DID IT!!!!!!1

3/4/2008 6:00:38 PM

^ Meaningless--but what's new?

3/4/2008 6:05:42 PM

^^^ Since your memory seems to be failing you, here's a good recap of the run-up to the Iraq war:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/unmovic/2003/0630selling.htm

The meaningful information is too much for me to copy and paste and bold the appropriate parts though. I know how easily you get confused.

3/4/2008 7:18:35 PM

^ I think you're confused. You always seem to forget the Clinton-Gore team's position--no doubt due to your youth, inexperience, and Bush derangement syndrome.

3/4/2008 9:07:59 PM

^ your reality derangement syndrome shows itself once again.

3/4/2008 9:16:15 PM

^ Reality? So you deny that both Clinton and Gore claimed Iraq had WMD and that we should prevent them from using those weapons--again?

3/4/2008 9:20:14 PM

Quote :

"Didn't all our intelligence organizations say there was no reason to believe Iraq was developing WMD in 2003?"

Quote :

"1992"

Quote :

"1998"

3/4/2008 9:28:43 PM

^^ that was in 1998. I don't make decisions now directly based on information from 5 (or 11) years ago, I use the most recent, updated information.

Maybe you don't have a reality derangement, just a critical thinking deficiency (but probably both).

[Edited on March 4, 2008 at 9:29 PM. Reason : ]

3/4/2008 9:29:46 PM

^^ and ^ And you also always seem to forget that Iraq was violating UN resolutions about every other week.

Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions:

UNSCR 1441 - November 8, 2002

Called for the immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq and its prohibited weapons.
Iraq must provide UNMOVIC and the IAEA full access to Iraqi facilities, individuals, means of transportation, and documents.
States that the Security Council has repeatedly warned Iraq and that it will face serious consequences as a result of its continued violations of its obligations.
UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).

Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.

Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.

Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.
UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.

Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.
UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

"Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."
UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

"Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.

Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.
UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

"Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.
UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

"Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.
UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

"Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.

Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.

Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq.
UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991

Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.
UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991

"Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.

"Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.

Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.

Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.

Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.

Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors.
UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991

"Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."

Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.

Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance.
UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991

Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.

Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."

Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.

Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.

Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.

Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.

Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.

Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.
UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991

Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.

Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.
UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990

Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."

Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."

Complete Index of UN Security Council Resolutions

Additional UN Security Council Statements
In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The index for UNSC Presidential Statements is on the UN website. The list of statements includes:

UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1991
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 5, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 19, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, February 28, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 6, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 11, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 12, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, April 10, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 17, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, July 6, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, September 2, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 24, 1992
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 8, 1993
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 11, 1993
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 18, 1993
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 28, 1993
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 23, 1993
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 8, 1994
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, March 19, 1996
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 14, 1996
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, August 23, 1996
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 30, 1996
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, June 13, 1997
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, October 29, 1997
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, November 13, 1997
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 3, 1997
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, December 22, 1997
UN Security Council Presidential Statement, January 14, 1998

http://www.state.gov/p/nea/rls/01fs/14906.htm

3/4/2008 10:34:56 PM

And. . .

Nuke program parts unearthed in Baghdad back yard

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/06/25/sprj.irq.centrifuge/

Iraqi Chemical Stash Uncovered
Post-Invasion Cache Could Have Been For Use in Weapons

Quote :

"BAGHDAD, Aug. 13 -- U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html

Desert Fox and a 'threat of the future'

Quote :

"On December 16, 1998, President Clinton launched Operation Desert Fox, a four-day missile and bombing attack on Iraq. 'I acted quickly because, as my military advisors stressed, the longer we waited, the more time Saddam would have to disburse his forces and protect his arsenal,' Clinton explained in his December 19 radio address to the nation. 'Our mission is clear: to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction [emphasis added].'43 (It should be noted that on July 27, 2003 President Clinton assessed the effectiveness of Desert Fox. He stated: 'When I left office, there was a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for. That is, at the end of the first Gulf War, we knew what he had. We knew what was destroyed in all the inspection processes and that was a lot. And then we bombed with the British for four days in 1998. We might have gotten it all; we might have gotten half of it; we might have gotten none of it. But we didn't know [emphasis added].)44"

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraq-20040623.htm#44

Two of Bill Clinton's Iraq-related speeches:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ENAV_UoIfgc&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q2iOVqYBqME

[Edited on March 4, 2008 at 10:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/4/2008 10:55:01 PM

Quote :

"The parts, with accompanying plans, were unearthed by Iraqi scientist Mahdi Obeidi who had hidden them under a rose bush in his garden 12 years ago under orders from Qusay Hussein and Saddam Hussein's then son-in-law, Hussein Kamel."

I read this in the first paragraph in the first article. Yes, we all know that at one point Saddam was trying to develop nuclear weapons. This isn't a slam dunk.

3/4/2008 11:06:02 PM

^^^ So which of those warrants an all-out invasion in 2003?

And how do they compare to UN violations being violated by other countries?

^^ Are you seriously still asserting Iraq had WMDs, or are you just providing yet more evidence of your Reality Derangement?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4169107.stm :
US gives up search for Iraq WMD

Quote :

"Asked if the ISG had stopped actively searching for WMD, Mr McClellan said: "That's my understanding... A lot of their mission is focused elsewhere now." ... "You cannot believe how hard it is to motivate people in the field who know that all they are doing is going through busy work motions because they themselves know there are no weapons there. "I faced that over a year ago with a team that essentially knew that we were right when we said they were no weapons." ... "We have believed that there weren't any weapons since around May or June 2003. First came David Kay in September 2003 [who said] that he hadn't found any weapons and that was a big sensation - but he thought that there were programmes still," [Hans Blix] told the BBC. "But then came Duelfer last November [who] said that he hadn't seen any programmes, but maybe Saddam would have intended to restart the programme, and there is no evidence of that."

3/4/2008 11:33:14 PM

^ You need to get your facts straight. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about:

What We Thought We Knew

Quote :

"The U.S. intelligence community's belief that Saddam was aggressively pursuing weapons of mass destruction pre-dated Bush's inauguration, and therefore cannot be attributed to political pressure. It was first advanced at the end of the 1990s, at a time when President Bill Clinton was trying to facilitate a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians and was hardly seeking assessments that the threat from Iraq was growing [emphasis added]. In congressional testimony in March of 2002 Robert Einhorn, Clinton's assistant secretary of state for nonproliferation, summed up the intelligence community's conclusions about Iraq at the end of the Clinton Administration: 'How close is the peril of Iraqi WMD? Today, or at most within a few months, Iraq could launch missile attacks with chemical or biological weapons against its neighbors (albeit attacks that would be ragged, inaccurate, and limited in size). Within four or five years it could have the capability to threaten most of the Middle East and parts of Europe with missiles armed with nuclear weapons containing fissile material produced indigenously—and to threaten U.S. territory with such weapons delivered by nonconventional means, such as commercial shipping containers. If it managed to get its hands on sufficient quantities of already produced fissile material, these threats could arrive much sooner [emphasis added]. In October of 2002 the National Intelligence Council, the highest analytical body in the U.S. intelligence community, issued a classified National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq's WMD, representing the consensus of the intelligence community [emphasis added]. Although after the war some complained that the NIE had been a rush job, and that the NIC should have been more careful in its choice of language, in fact the report accurately reflected what intelligence analysts had been telling Clinton Administration officials like me for years in verbal briefings. A declassified version of the 2002 NIE was released to the public in July of last year [2003]. Its principal conclusions: 'Iraq has continued its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) programs in defiance of UN resolutions and restrictions [emphasis added]. Baghdad has chemical and biological weapons as well as missiles with ranges in excess of UN restrictions; if left unchecked, it probably will have a nuclear weapon during this decade.' (The classified version of the NIE gave an estimate of five to seven years.) 'Since inspections ended in 1998, Iraq has maintained its chemical weapons effort, energized its missile program, and invested more heavily in biological weapons; most analysts assess [that] Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.' 'If Baghdad acquires sufficient weapons-grade fissile material from abroad, it could make a nuclear weapon within a year ... Without such material from abroad, Iraq probably would not be able to make a weapon until the last half of the decade." 'Baghdad has begun renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, cyclosarin, and VX ... Saddam probably has stocked a few hundred metric tons of CW agents.' 'All key aspects—R&D, production, and weaponization—of Iraq's offensive BW [biological warfare] program are active and most elements are larger and more advanced than they were before the Gulf war ... Baghdad has established a large-scale, redundant, and concealed BW agent production capability, which includes mobile facilities; these facilities can evade detection, are highly survivable, and can exceed the production rates Iraq had prior to the Gulf war.' U.S. government analysts were not alone in these views. In the late spring of 2002 I participated in a Washington meeting about Iraqi WMD. Those present included nearly twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM), the force established in 1991 to oversee the elimination of WMD in Iraq. One of the senior people put a question to the group: Did anyone in the room doubt that Iraq was currently operating a secret centrifuge plant? No one did. Three people added that they believed Iraq was also operating a secret calutron plant (a facility for separating uranium isotopes) [emphasis added]. Other nations' intelligence services were similarly aligned with U.S. views. Somewhat remarkably, given how adamantly Germany would oppose the war, the German Federal Intelligence Service held the bleakest view of all, arguing that Iraq might be able to build a nuclear weapon within three years. Israel, Russia, Britain, China, and even France held positions similar to that of the United States; France's President Jacques Chirac told Time magazine last February, 'There is a problem—the probable possession of weapons of mass destruction by an uncontrollable country, Iraq. The international community is right ... in having decided Iraq should be disarmed.' In sum, no one doubted that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction [emphasis added]."

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200401/pollack



[Edited on March 5, 2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason : .]

3/4/2008 11:49:41 PM

i was replying to this

Quote :

"Didn't the NIE say that Iran wasn't doing this?"

when i mentioned Iraq.

Right now, multiple international organizations have confirmed Iran is not currently using their Uranium enrichment technology for weapons purposes. It would be the exact same blunder as Iraq to do anything other than sanctions to the country, and what we need to be doing is warming up to diplomatic ties.

3/5/2008 2:43:27 PM