was it worth having him here?

my dad, the constant pessimist, mentioned this in an email today and it is somewhat relevant

i'm not going to talk about w/l b/c obviously our team would have been very different w/out him, for the bettor or worse, we will never know. say what you will about him, he was def an impact player (whether that impact was caused more by him or sid is debatable)

hickson was probably our most talented player this year, but he was clearly not ready for the amount of weight that was put upon his shoulders. also, it was clear from day 1 that the gameplan completely changes this year from last year to put the offensive focus on him. this obviously had a moral effect on costner on being bumped from his BMOC status and on mccauley on being bumped from the starting lineup. and it isnt like either played their way into or out of status in a real game, it was decided in practice. it had to be deflating to end last year on such a hot streak and then to blow it up for a player like hickson who, while very talented, is no melo or beasley and is still very raw.

outside of possible winning more games this year, the only real benefit to having him 1 and done is the press for "producing nba talent" but this only goes so far.

nowi may or may not be playing devil's advocate, so please provide intelligent arguments or agreements as to my assessment. i'm interested to see what others think.

3/13/2008 10:29:32 PM

Quote :

"for the bettor"

pun intended!

3/13/2008 10:30:47 PM

he wont go pro...if he does i'll bust him in the knee cap with a metal pipe

3/13/2008 10:31:02 PM

lol

Quote :

"if jj hickson goes pro this year..."

he will turn out like his half brother julius hodge

3/13/2008 10:32:39 PM

as much as i love julius, he had nowhere near the potential JJ has

3/13/2008 10:35:31 PM

funny thing is, if JJ goes pro after his freshman year, he'll still have a better pro career than Hansbrough will after 3 or 4 years

3/13/2008 10:36:21 PM

Can anyone think of a "one and done" guy from a bad team? I can't right off the bat, but I don't follow the NBA too closely. All of the recent guys I can think of were on pretty good/great teams.

3/13/2008 10:36:52 PM

Having JJ here at least proves Lowe can recruit the big ones, if nothing else. Also, we would of had like 7 points today if he wasn't out there.

3/13/2008 10:38:07 PM

^The two GT guys from last year, Thadieus Young and something else

3/13/2008 10:39:19 PM

Crittenton

3/13/2008 10:41:15 PM

^^^
1. you obv didnt read my post, it is absurd to try to conjecture the play of a hickson-less team

2. would of?

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 10:42 PM. Reason : A]

3/13/2008 10:41:58 PM

conjecture as a verb?

3/13/2008 10:43:48 PM

^^^^ Yeah, good call on the GT guys. I forgot about them.

3/13/2008 10:46:42 PM

^^touche

you win this round ernie

btw i'm glad i sparked such a great discussion

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 10:49 PM. Reason : ^but GT wasnt bad, so to speak, last year, they were a 20 win team and made the tourney]

3/13/2008 10:48:05 PM

Adrian Walton, Fordham, 2002

3/13/2008 10:53:51 PM

the UNC team was pretty shitty in 2001-02 and won a national championship with basically the same players that matured...maybe...um, hickson can be like them with smith and degand/javi

3/13/2008 10:57:37 PM

Quote :

"Can anyone think of a "one and done" guy from a bad team? I can't right off the bat, but I don't follow the NBA too closely. All of the recent guys I can think of were on pretty good/great teams."

Kris Humphries. Picked 14th in 2004 draft, went to Minnesota. Currently plays with the Raptors.

3/13/2008 10:59:49 PM

IIRC, Felton & co. didn't get there until the '02 - '03 season. Their first year had some ups and downs, but you knew they'd eventually kill people.

That being said, Mccants, May, Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hickson and anyone else

3/13/2008 11:01:57 PM

Quote :

"the UNC team was pretty shitty in 2001-02 and won a national championship with basically the same players that matured"

no, not at all

COMPLETELY different teams with almost COMPLETELY different rosters

3/13/2008 11:03:21 PM

Michael Beasley after this year

3/13/2008 11:04:53 PM

^^^^ There we go.

Humphries was the only example I found looking through a list of lottery picks.

All of the other one-and-dones were from good teams. It seems like these guys, in my observation, usually make their teams better. The team frequently rides these guys deep into the tournament.

So is our team just that bad, or is J.J. nowhere near as good as we thought he was. I'm leaning towards a little of both.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 11:06 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2008 11:05:50 PM

Delusions of Grandeur

from both fans and Hickson's perspectives

3/13/2008 11:08:06 PM

^^Eddie Griffin too. Played at Seton Hall, died recently. Picked 7th in the 2001 draft. Gerald Wallace only played one year as well.

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 11:11 PM. Reason : G force]

3/13/2008 11:08:35 PM

well i mean, if hickson stays...we'll be a dramatically different team from now til then too, you know mccauley and fells and costner will eventually leave...but based on our recruits, i'm not seeing it...i was just trying to be optomistic, but since we're all state fans i know we're all the saddest sacks of shit right now so...nevermind

3/13/2008 11:10:22 PM

i would say that it wasn't worth having him here if he leaves (which i think he will).

it's not like we could've done much worse, and it hurt coster, mccauley and smith.

i'm not mad at the guy or anything, it just didn't work out.

3/13/2008 11:24:46 PM

i think the only thing that makes him leave is bad blood with sid.

3/13/2008 11:26:40 PM

yeah. it wasn't worth having him here (unless it proves to be a huge boost for recruiting).

but it wasn't jj's fault at all. totally sid's. it's a shame.

3/13/2008 11:26:48 PM

But...I mean really, JJ, Ben, Costner, Fells, Javi/Degand...we're a top 3 ACC pick again for sure.. I mean I hate to admit it, but they should be pretty good, and without anybody not starting or worrying about playing time, there's no reason this shouldn't be a good team.

3/13/2008 11:29:22 PM

Quote :

"But...I mean really, JJ, Ben, Costner, Fells, Javi/Degand...we're a top 3 ACC pick again for sure.. I mean I hate to admit it, but they should be pretty good, and without anybody not starting or worrying about playing time, there's no reason this shouldn't be a good team."

you MUST be joking

3/13/2008 11:30:29 PM

Quote :

"there's no reason this shouldn't be a good team"

debate me this, if you will

3/13/2008 11:36:45 PM

4-12

clarification: we might be better by acc time next year (doubtful, but possible), but there's NO way we are picked to be in the top half of the acc preseason

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 11:38 PM. Reason : .]

3/13/2008 11:37:39 PM

ok, maybe not the top 3 part, but the "should be pretty good" part...that should make a solid team. we were 5-11 last year, and lost a PG. This year, losing a SF which we have a good replacement for. Makes sense that the "experts" will do the same shitty job in overrating NCSU, and maybe they'll live up to it?

3/13/2008 11:41:31 PM

It's basically the same roster that went 4-12 in the conference this year, and many of the same core players that went 5-11 last year. The media got burned by picking us 3rd this year, they won't make that mistake again.

3/13/2008 11:43:59 PM

it's okay guys, i have it on good authority that johnny thomas is just like gerald henderson, except better.

3/13/2008 11:45:12 PM

Good. That's where I want to be.. But my point was that this """""""SHOULD"""""" be a good team, I don't care about the records, the talent is pretty damn good. So maybe, it's Sid? We've all seen Ben play well, and Costner, and Fells, and Javi, and Hickson...why should this not be a fucking over .500 ACC team if that's the starting 5?

3/13/2008 11:47:27 PM

Quote :

"Jay Davis will step up"

Quote :

"Marcus Stone will step up"

Quote :

"Daniel Evans will step up"

Quote :

"Harrison Beck will step up"

Quote :

"Daniel Evans will step up (for realz this time!)"

Quote :

"Russell Wilson will step up"

3/13/2008 11:49:24 PM

Don't gimme that crap. we have the next greatest thing ever in NCSU sports.. THE GOLDEN GOD...but i can't remember his name right now

oh, its Glennon. hope you pan out

[Edited on March 13, 2008 at 11:52 PM. Reason : Glennon]

3/13/2008 11:51:33 PM

please pick another thread to argue about our prospects, or lack thereof, for next year.

3/14/2008 12:11:37 AM

Quote :
"if jj hickson goes pro this year..."


he will turn out like his half brother Josh Powelljulius hodge

3/14/2008 12:42:07 AM

Part of me says we would be better off if Hickson was never a part of this program or would leave now. The other part says he stays and we weed out the ones that don't want to play and can put it together. But with Lowe at the helm I am not sure the latter can happen.

3/14/2008 12:57:42 AM

this would be a completely different discussion if we had a real point guard (and i mean something more than Degand too, he's not much of a PG)

the real question now is, based on his impact (good/bad) on this team, would it be more of an asset or hindrance to have him on the team next year?

3/14/2008 1:01:20 AM

I honestly think we would be better off if he leaves.

Then McCauley/Costner start with Tracy backing them up. Pretty good 3some if they play like they can.

1) Degand/Gonzalez/Mays/Johnson
2) Fells/Ferguson/Mays/Williams
3) Fells/Thomas/Horner/Williams
4) Costner/Smith
5) McCauley/Smith

We would still have plenty of talent to compete and the team would perhaps gel again.

3/14/2008 1:15:11 AM

my friend and I are ready to go pro

3/14/2008 1:20:39 AM

Quote :

"Makes sense that the "experts" will do the same shitty job in overrating NCSU, and maybe they'll live up to it?"

god dammit, dont be fucking gay, is the media against or for State??? shut the fuck up.

3/14/2008 2:12:19 AM

for

3/14/2008 2:23:28 AM

Quote :

"Delusions of Grandeur from both fans and Hickson's perspectives"

spot on

3/14/2008 8:40:58 AM

why would hickson want to come back to this?

3/14/2008 8:49:54 AM

I think Hickson will have been a detriment to the program if he leaves after this year. Whether it was his fault or not, his emergence as a starter coincided with the destruction of team chemistry. And I can't say after watching him all season that I ever once thought to myself "Wow, what a great team player." Sure he has great individual talents, but our team playing as a bunch of individuals was one of the primary reasons for us sucking so badly this year. Every time he got the ball he was looking to shoot. Never mind the fact that he was being triple-teamed or had a teammate wide-open he could have kicked the ball back out to.

If he does go, the only thing I can honestly say I'll miss is his rebounding. Anybody can score points if the offense is centered around them (like our's was around him this season), but it takes effort to pull in as many rebounds as he did. Of course he wouldn't have had the opportunity for as many rebounds if he could make a hook shot or any kind of post-up jump shot. His inside game, discounting dunking and bowling his way to easy lay-ups, left something to be desired. Not to mention his post-up defense on any big-man worth a damn was almost non-existent.

3/14/2008 9:47:41 AM

Quote :

"That being said, Mccants, May, Felton >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hickson and anyone else"

I do believe Marvin Williams was a huge part in their NC run, much more than Mccants or May.

3/14/2008 10:04:54 AM

I would agree with you but May was on fire during the NCAA tourny.

3/14/2008 10:07:00 AM