I can get a free version of AutoCAD Civil 3D 2008 from work, but it has to be on a laptop (some licensing rule). Luckily, I have a laptop (my only computer), but it would croak if I tried to run AutoCAD.

I have:
Dell Latitude D620
Windows XP SP2
1.5 GB RAM
Intel T2300 @ 1.66 GHz
60 GB Internal HDD @ 30% Free
300 GB External HDD @ 86% Free
Intel 945GM/GU Express Chipset with 244 MB
DVD Drive
IE6

Autodesk recommends:
* Intel® Pentium® IV processor, 3 GHz or higher, AMD Athlon TM
* Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional(SP2), Home Edition(SP2), Windows 2000 (SP4), 32 bit Windows Vista Enterprise, 32 bit Windows Vista Business, 32 bit Windows Vista Ultimate or 32 bit Windows Vista Premium
* 2 GB RAM
* 5 GB free disk space for installation
* 1280x1024 video display with true color
* OpenGL-capable, workstation-class graphics card or DirectX® 9 support
* MS-Mouse compliant
* Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0 (SP1 or later)
* DVD drive

That being said, what all should I upgrade and to what degree, and where should I get the parts from? I'm not found of running the minimums, but I don't have tons of money either.



[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : and I'm not up on the computer lingo, etc. so speak to me as a fragile child ]

3/20/2008 6:45:30 PM

you should sell your current laptop on ebay and buy a new one.

Not a chance in hell you will be able to upgrade to meet Autodesk recommended specs.

You are going to need to get either a Dell workstation laptop, or a Lenovo workstation laptop. Either a nVidia Quadro or ATI FireGL video card will be your magical things to look for to know whether it's what you need or not.

Also for the processor you are going to want an Intel Core2 Duo.

3/20/2008 6:50:49 PM

I'm not gonna have that type of money for a while

if I were able to work something out, could you give me a selling price for my notebook as is?

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 6:52 PM. Reason : .]

I don't see anything with a 3GHz processor. Is there something about the Core2 Duo that I should know?

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 7:02 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2008 6:52:18 PM

yeah, forget the 3ghz thing. Core2Duo's at 1.8ghz or above will be more powerful than a 3ghz Pentium 4 (mhz doesnt mean much anymore).

Any Core2Duo you can get in a workstation laptop will work just fine. In fact your current laptop CPU is fine, just need a better video card.

You could probably get away with selling it for 5-600 bucks (totally guessing) and get a base model workstation laptop for 1100-1500 that would work fine. Check ebay too, sometimes you can snag a deal on new Dells with GL cards because most people don't want them.

3/20/2008 7:20:51 PM

aight, thanks. I'm going to see if my parents will give me a loan for this. If I put together a few notebooks, would you mind looking at the specs and giving recommendations?

3/20/2008 7:24:30 PM

GC 250


what what !

3/20/2008 7:29:09 PM

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=:00000025:00000163:&smid=DE3CFBC23C43487D87A3BFF52A54D1E8

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=:00000025:0000014E:&smid=5D3D13908B314242BD226E9BF4C1A1DB

any of these

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:category.details?current-catalog-id=12F0696583E04D86B9B79B0FEC01C087¤t-category-id=1F106632CBC24D2CBD23DF19644D3694

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:LoadRuntimeTree?sb=:00000025:000001B9:&smid=2432D88590C944B79D33FDA517A5C756

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/precn_m?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

any of those with 2gb of memory and a 7200rpm hard drive will work for you. The non-NVM quadros are worth the extra money if you can afford it

3/20/2008 7:33:57 PM

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 7:43 PM. Reason : ^thanks, I'll look at those]

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 7:46 PM. Reason : ^ those are much better prices. and those will last the next 3-4 years and be fine?]

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 8:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2008 7:42:36 PM

also, what's the difference between vista premium & professional?

I've always gotten the professional packages because they've always had everything I use (ie office professional)


and apparently, I have plenty of money in a broker's account that is for college expenses, so I'm good to go on money.

that being said, would anything change in your recommendations?

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 7:56 PM. Reason : .]


ok, this is what I've put together. I've upgraded a few things since I know I have more money than I thought, and I want to be able to go a while without having to upgrade parts. let me know what you think/any changes



[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 8:09 PM. Reason : thanks]https://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/systemconfig.runtime.workflow:ModifySystemconfig?x=x&sb=:00000025:000001B9:

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 8:09 PM. Reason : link]

3/20/2008 7:48:15 PM

well forget the above link, it didn't work. sorry for so many posts, but i've come to three systems, and I'm not sure which one to go with. please give me some feedback, and I'll check it tomorrow morning.

Common between all three:
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor T9300 (2.5GHz 800MHz 6MBL2)
Windows XP Pro, or Vista Premie, or Vista Ultimate (which one is best?)
4 GB PC2-5300 DDR2 SDRAM 667MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
100GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Intel Turbo Memory 1GB
CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo 24X/24X/24X/8X Max, Ultrabay Slim
ThinkPad 11a/b/g Wi-Fi wireless LAN Mini-PCIe US/EMEA/LA/ANZ
6 cell Li-Ion Battery
Microsoft Office Professional 2007 - English

System #1: Thinkpad T61 15 Wide 6459
Above +
Display: 15.4 WXGA TFT
NVIDIA Quadro NVS 140M (128MB)
$1,692.50 (no tax or shipping)

System #2: Thinkpad T61 15 Wide 6459
Above +
Display: 15.4 WSXGA+ TFT
NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (256MB Open GL)
$1,777.00 (no tax or shipping)

System #3: Thinkpad T61 8891
Above +
Display: 14.1 SXGA+ TFT
NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M (128MB Open GL)
$1,745.75 (no tax or shipping)

So what recommendations do you have? And those aren't listed in order of preference.

Thanks

3/20/2008 8:30:42 PM

^Id get the #2 system with a couple of changes:

either get Vista Home Premium or XP Pro. Either will be find, no need for ultimate or business.

drop the intel turbo memory, its useless.

get the 9cell battery instead of the 6 cell, it makes a big difference.

you should be able to get Office Student & Teacher cheaper at the bookstore (and btw, you should order the system through the bookstore, it will be cheaper)

3/20/2008 8:57:45 PM

he speaks the truth

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 9:25 PM. Reason : what the hell is "turbo memory"?!?!]

3/20/2008 9:24:30 PM

asinine licensing

3/20/2008 9:40:04 PM

coming from someone who uses AutoCAD on an everyday basis... i would try your laptop first before deciding to upgrade.

i have a T2310 1.46Ghz, 1.5GB of memory, integrated video card, on windows XP sp2 pro, and i can run both AutoCAD and Revit fine (albeit, not fast, but fine), and it's a laptop i got for $350 on black friday.

coming from the fact that you said Civil... i would suggest a good video card and a lot of memory as topo surfaces deal with a lot of data, points and triangulation, and can be very demanding.

while Noen's suggestions are great if you want to upgrade... just see if what you got will work for you first, don't read too much into Autodesk's recommended minimums, if you want/need to upgrade, i concur with everything Noen has recommended

[Edited on March 20, 2008 at 10:28 PM. Reason : .]

3/20/2008 10:27:16 PM

^that's actually why I recommended the upgrade. If he just wanted autocad, he could do fine with that he's got.

But you cant upgrade the video on that guy, and it's going to run like ass on integrated intel

3/21/2008 12:10:29 AM

If you could upgrade your ram to max out what XP can actually use, you should be fine.

Your major bottleneck is going to be the truly atrocious video chip set that intel peddles.

Also upgrade your internal HD to 7200 RPM.

Other then that, you need to do like noen suggested and buy a new laptop though they aren't that expensive.

3/21/2008 12:37:17 AM

I appreciate the help guys. I think I'm going to go with a new laptop anyways. Mine is a 2 year old refurbished notebook that has decent performance. I've also got the money to get a new one, and I just found out that my IT guy at work is a Dell Premier dealer, so I'm going to see what he can do as well. The only problem with that, is that I haven't really seen a Dell package that I like, and even though my IT guy can get me a better price, Dell seems to be a lot more expensive for less performance.

3/21/2008 7:07:25 AM

I run AutoCad 2008 on my laptop which has worse hardware specs than yours, but its pretty slow...luckily I only really use it to view and print drawings and not to edit them

Hardware specs aren't always specific requirements as much as recommended settings...just an fyi

3/21/2008 10:00:53 AM

I mean that depends on the program.

Computationally heavy software tends to run at a rate that makes a person want to gauge their brains out on platforms that aren't up to spec.

3/21/2008 10:03:32 AM

well i'd be working in/editing files that are quite large - some have been up to 50 MB, including surfaces and all.

I wish my IT guy would email me back now I can get a 12% premie educational discount, but I don't know what he can do (Dell)

Speaking of Dell, I think I've got a good system, but I have a few questions:

Display - are the resolution differences going to really matter here?:
High Resolution, glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1440x900) & 2MP Camera
High Resolution glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1680x1050) & 2MP Camera ($50 more)

RAM - one gig worth it?
3GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms) [subtract $50]
4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms) [Included in Price]

Good Video Card?
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT [Included in Price]


Here's what I have so far:

XPS M1530

Intel® Core™ 2 Duo Processor T9300 (2.5GHz/800Mhz FSB, 6MB Cache)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition
System Color Tuxedo Black [cheapest color]
Memory 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz (2 Dimms)
High Resolution glossy widescreen 15.4 inch LCD(1680x1050) & 2MP Camera WSXGA
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT [only one offered]
200GB 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive Free Fall Sensor
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 8.1 [free]
Slot Load DVD+/-RW (DVD/CD read/write)
High Definition Audio 2.0
Intel® 3945 802.11a/g Mini-card
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
3Yr In-Home Service, Parts Labor, 24x7 Phone Support
Intel Centrino Core Duo Processor ICNSNB
Windows Vista™ Premium VPN
DataSafe Online Backup 20GB for 1 year [free]

20 in Dell E207WFP Wide Flat Panel Monitor $249.00

3Yr Ltd. Warranty, 3 yr Advanced Exchange

Sub Total $1,983.00
Additional Discounts and Coupons $237.96
Sub Total $1,745.04
Shipping & Handling $62.00
Tax $120.91
Total $1,927.95


Any other suggestions? My budget is about $2,000. I don't have to get a new external monitor, but it'd be nice, so I'd like to keep that one the list, unless someone has some really good suggestions for upgrading some of the components instead of a new monitor.

3/21/2008 10:28:53 AM

looks great...

if you are using this:
"20 in Dell E207WFP Wide Flat Panel Monitor $249.00"
then your laptop resolution won't matter much, unless you travel or work of the laptop screen much, also keep in mind that a larger resolution on the same size screen means things will appear a bit smaller... the benefit is a larger work area on screen (you can see more) but text and icons will be smaller, but you can always change the resolution down

IMHO, the extra memory is worth it if you are getting Vista.

8600GT should be more than sufficient for what you're doing... CAD programs aren't TOO video intensive... you just need something better than integrated.

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 1:35 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 1:32:36 PM

^ I really appreciate it. If I copied everything right above, then that price includes the higher resolution monitor, and it's under $2000, so I'm gonna go with it.

I tend to work mainly off of my external at home, then obviously when i'm on the road/on campus, I use the laptop monitor, but I think that higher res monitor will be fine. However, with CAD, I typically use both monitors (put all the toolspaces, properties, etc on one screen, so resolution isn't as important there).

now if that pesky IT guy would just email me back and tell me his price on this

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 3:07 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 3:06:40 PM

I would tend to steer you back to the precision laptops instead of the XPS. The Quadro will give you a little better OpenGL experience than the geforce will. It's one of those "you don't miss it until you've had it" things. But other than that, looks good.

The memory is a toss-up since Vista 32bit can only address 3.5gb, you are really paying 50 extra for 512mb, the other 512 will effectively go unused.

The higher res screen is definitely worth it.

3/21/2008 3:35:11 PM

except AutoCAD 2008 doesn't support OpenGL in Vista, it's default is Direct3D

fwiw, i have a geforce at home and a quadro at work and i don't notice a difference, but yes, the quadro is more tuned for cad/bim/3d apps

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 4:04 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 3:59:36 PM

^^I looked at those, but I can't get a discount on them.

I set a precision up and found out that those are more expensive for less performance (except for the graphics card), but if what ^ says is right, then the lesser card should be fine.

I appreciate all they help guys.

[Edited on March 21, 2008 at 8:40 PM. Reason : .]

3/21/2008 8:20:48 PM

^^if you are just running vanilla autocad, you wont see any difference. I was actually pretty astonished at the difference in Rhino and 3dMax on Quadro vs geforce cards (cant speak to radeon vs firegl, but id imagine it being similar)

I've always been bothered by the pixel inaccuracies by gaming cards, especially in surface modeling. There would always be a few chunks out of line or just completely missing, whereas with the workstation cards, not only was everything there, but the accuracy was absolutely spot on.

It really never bothered me until I spent a weekend on an OLD precision laptop of my roomates, that was so dramatically better (IMHO) than my MUCH more powerful desktop in terms of precision and accuracy, I was sold on GL workstation cards.

3/22/2008 6:29:55 AM

Noen, I'm not using vanilla AutoCAD

I use AutoCAD ADT 2006, Revit, and 3D Studio MAX on a daily basis.

And I'm not discrediting workstation cards, I'm merely pointing out that for his purposes I'm not sure he'd notice the kind of differences (for the markup you pay) an ID person would using Rhino

[Edited on March 22, 2008 at 12:22 PM. Reason : .]

3/22/2008 12:17:40 PM

FYI:

upgrade hard drive & screen to higher resolution, then add more memory yourself for cheap ($50)

Quote :

"# Precision M90 17-inch Widescreen Mobile Workstation with Core 2 Duo CPU, 1GB, 80GB, 512MB Video, DVD Burner + 3 yr Warranty New Coupon *Ends Today* $2,091 $1,249 with Free Shipping Dell has this Precision M90 on sale, ending today, for $1,249 after $842 instant savings. Free 3 - 5 day shipping. System Specs: # 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo Processor # Windows XP Professional # NVidia Quadro FX 2500M 512MB Video Card # 17-inch WXGA+ LCD Display # 1GB DDR2 Memory # 80GB Hard Drive # 8x DVD Burner # Dell Wireless 1390 Mini-Card # 3yr Warranty Expires: 3/26/2008"

[Edited on March 26, 2008 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ,]

3/26/2008 3:49:33 PM

^ I don't see that anywhere. Also, I have $2000 to spend on a laptop, and nothing but a laptop, so I'm trying to max that out


nvm, found it

[Edited on March 26, 2008 at 7:34 PM. Reason : .]

3/26/2008 7:31:43 PM

yeah i have a hard time believing that you can't get the same horsepower from dell for considerably cheaper than lenovo...but then i usually shop in the <$1000 market not the <$2000 market

3/26/2008 8:54:36 PM

got my new monitor and laptop today.

FREAKIN SWEET. well at least the monitor is. I'm letting my IT guy at work set up the XPS, so I'm not touching it yet. but it looks fucking awesome.

thanks for all of your help

4/1/2008 5:25:23 PM

Quote :

"I use AutoCAD ADT 2006, Revit, and 3D Studio MAX on a daily basis. And I'm not discrediting workstation cards, I'm merely pointing out that for his purposes I'm not sure he'd notice the kind of differences (for the markup you pay) an ID person would using Rhino"

If you are using Revit and 3DSMax, you should see pretty noticeable differences. I never thought there could be much of a difference until I saw a side-by-side of a geforce and quadro machine running 3DSMax. The accuracy, speed and precision are night and day between the two.

It's a bit like the difference between a tablet PC and a Wacom enabled tablet PC. Most people, no difference. Side by side in something like Painter or Sketchbook Pro, the former looks like a kid's toy and the latter like a professional product.

4/1/2008 5:40:32 PM