Discuss.

3/29/2008 8:53:49 AM

Religion of peace.

3/29/2008 10:04:16 AM

All religions are (full of) crazy (people).

3/29/2008 10:11:00 AM

Exodus 22:20
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Example of this policy in action: the wholesale (and God-approved!) slaughter of the Amalekites in 1 Chronicles.

Exodus 23:27
I will send my fear before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

Here's a more fun translation:
I will send my TERROR before thee, and will destroy all the people to whom thou shalt come, and I will make all thine enemies turn their backs unto thee.

This is pretty fun and could be continued, and we're only dealing with a single book of the bible.

LOL

How about this: all religions say crazy, stupid shit. Christianity is not any better than Islam, and it pisses you conservatives off beyond belief.

3/29/2008 11:25:11 AM

I agree with LiusClues to some extent, the problem is that the Muslims seem to be the ones in large numbers who act on the crazy BS in the bible...in modern times. More so than the occasional nuts from the other religions. The radical Islamic movement continues to grow and gain credibility, and there is little backlash from the so called moderate ones.

3/29/2008 12:05:40 PM

I find it most interesting that there isn't any personal commentary in this video, yet anyone who has been associated with its production and distribution has been threatened - so much so that LiveLeak won't even host it anymore.

The only thing in there are excerpts from the Quran and video clips of prominent radicals. No personal commentary or 'objectionable' material, other than the cartoon in the first 10 seconds. It's entirely too disturbing how afraid some of these people are of the plain truth.

3/29/2008 12:33:28 PM

general westerners are scared or blind of the truth

3/29/2008 12:58:01 PM

Quote :

"How about this: all religions say crazy, stupid shit. Christianity is not any better than Islam, and it pisses you conservatives off beyond belief."

sign me up for the suicide bomber christian movement. where can i sign up?

3/29/2008 1:13:30 PM

too bad Christianity transcends "conservatives" and includes many, many liberals.

3/29/2008 1:29:39 PM

Goebbles would be proud.

3/29/2008 1:37:47 PM

http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/03/dutch-film-fitn.html

Anti-Quran Film Fitna Pulled From Web Due to 'Threats'

Quote :

"I find it most interesting that there isn't any personal commentary in this video, yet anyone who has been associated with its production and distribution has been threatened - so much so that LiveLeak won't even host it anymore. The only thing in there are excerpts from the Quran and video clips of prominent radicals. No personal commentary or 'objectionable' material, other than the cartoon in the first 10 seconds. It's entirely too disturbing how afraid some of these people are of the plain truth."

Yes, that's exactly what I thought.

[Edited on March 29, 2008 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

3/29/2008 2:19:50 PM

Quote :

"sign me up for the suicide bomber christian movement."

The difference: we have the technology to just send drones or bombers. Not to bash the army, but you could surely enlist.

3/29/2008 2:25:53 PM

Quote :

"How about this: all religions say crazy, stupid shit. Christianity is not any better than Islam, and it pisses you conservatives off beyond belief. "

It certainly is better in practical terms--i.e., there aren't anywhere near as many Christians doing crazy shit.

and I am neither a theological 50-lb head regarding Christianity nor Islam, but Christians more or less discount the entire book of Exodus (and lots of the rest of the Old Testament) as pretty much background information to be viewed for context, in light of the "new covenant" or whatever with Jesus.

3/29/2008 2:44:33 PM

Quote :

"Christians more or less discount the entire book of Exodus"

Fixed.

3/29/2008 4:28:27 PM

well, there's a lot of that, too.

i meant the ones who don't do that.

3/29/2008 4:35:31 PM

Quote :

"It certainly is better in practical terms--i.e., there aren't anywhere near as many Christians doing crazy shit."

A look at the texts in question suggests this isn't because of anything inherent in either religion. Instead, it's a matter of current political and cultural circumstances.

3/29/2008 5:05:11 PM

yes but the radical jihad/wahabi movement has been increasing since the 1920s

3/29/2008 5:09:34 PM

^^ yeah, that's mostly it i think, although:

Quote :

"Christians more or less discount the entire book of Exodus (and lots of the rest of the Old Testament) as pretty much background information to be viewed for context, in light of the "new covenant" or whatever with Jesus. "

[Edited on March 29, 2008 at 5:11 PM. Reason : don't know if there is anything analogous going on with texts in question is Islam]

3/29/2008 5:11:05 PM

Christian have divergent ideas about the Old Testament.

Some ignore it, others use it to oppose homosexual relationships and shrimp.

3/29/2008 5:32:46 PM

Yes

Millions of people haven't been killed, tortured, or slaughtered in the name of Jesus, the church, or God.

Oh wait

But they have.

3/29/2008 7:49:55 PM

Catholic Church
What did you say about my momma?

3/29/2008 7:55:30 PM

Sandsanta, we are talking about modern times here

3/29/2008 9:06:02 PM

most religion can be twisted so that people can build or maintain their power.

people need to be able to critically think and determine if this is what their religous text/religion would have them do.

They are called false prophets and there are plenty of christian ones. (Pat Robertson etc?)

3/29/2008 9:17:25 PM

It kinda sounds like SandSanta is trying to defend the Islamic fascists.

We've progressed over the past 900 years, the Jihadist are stuck in the dark ages.

3/29/2008 9:22:32 PM

How exactly do you define progress?

The western (Christian) world through colonialism has, in essence, set up these other parts of the world to be so backwards. Is it any shock that the very places they destabilized are now hotbeds for fundamentalism?

3/29/2008 9:35:17 PM

yeah every time the 700 club brings medicine and schoolbooks to those indonesian kids... totally screwing up natural selection.

3/29/2008 10:59:29 PM

Uhm

Considering how much older christianity is then Islam, the timelines of the two religions as far as religious persecution goes actually fits.

And it wasn't that long ago that jews were almost wiped out of Europe.

But don't let me piss all over your argument here, by all means, keep being ignorant.

3/30/2008 12:30:44 PM

Are you trying to imply that Hitler killed the Jews in the name of Christianity?

That's an interesting theory, especially considering that Hitler wasn't exactly a Christian himself.

Quote :

""Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe transubstantiation>.... "When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." "

-Adolf Hitler, December 1941

But hell, don't let facts get in the way of Godwins Law

3/30/2008 12:52:38 PM

Quote :

"yeah every time the 700 club brings medicine and schoolbooks to those indonesian kids... totally screwing up natural selection."

Organizations like the Red Crescent do not exist all Muslims are bad people it is an inherently evil religffffffffffffffffffffffff

3/30/2008 1:26:51 PM

Quote :

"yeah every time the 700 club brings medicine and schoolbooks to those indonesian kids... totally screwing up natural selection"

They don't bring that shit over there because people are dying and in great need of basic supplies, they bring it because they want an excuse to go over there and force people to accept the light of Jesus Christ. Besides, aren't people more willing to buy into your bullshit when they're starving and you're the only one bringing them food?

3/30/2008 1:45:13 PM

I actually make no such implication, Prawn Star.

I don't even need to.

An entire ethnic group, numbering in the millions, was the victim of genocide in the Occidental.

Hitler didn't invent antisemitism nor did he force himself to power (he tried once, and failed).

Not that I even need to argue with anyone that Christianity has killed millions in the name of religion, but I will pose the idea that doing nothing about such evil going on in your midst is the same as supporting it.

3/30/2008 3:00:14 PM

Ask your doctor about Islamophobia.

3/30/2008 3:02:46 PM

DAY

DOOK

OUR

DUBBBBS

3/30/2008 3:41:32 PM

when I first saw this thread, I was like, "wtf, a thread about ebonics"

3/30/2008 3:43:52 PM

Shit, I thought it was about FINRA, the new NASD. I didn't know I was going to wander into the Reichstag...

3/30/2008 3:47:03 PM

^^Cue any one of the "THAT'S RACIST!" pics.

[Edited on March 30, 2008 at 3:47 PM. Reason : blah]

3/30/2008 3:47:26 PM

Dude, I'm out here in Concord right now. You wanna see CRAZY JESUS PEOPLE, just make a short hop skip and a jump down I-85.
I've already met the Guy That's Convinced The Earth Is Only 2700 Years Old, the Loudspeaker Evangelicals On The Side Of The Highway, and the Lady That's Convinced Everyone Under Age 50 Is Going To Hell.
Now, granted, in the grand scheme of things, I have met plenty of Christians who are perfectly happy to talk to me about my (Wiccan) religion, the happy Methodists who don't want to interfere with my life, and the Non-Practicing Christians who don't actually go to church or pay much attention to the specific words of the Christian Bible, but they live good lives and believe in Jesus. So, yeah, the crazies are out there, and they're out there in my religion, too, but this kind of reaction is a bit extreme.

3/30/2008 4:11:54 PM

there will be a war in israel sometime and muslims all over the world will take arms
who will deny that?

3/30/2008 4:36:35 PM

So here is a question; are we in the West going to stand up for the right of Geert Wilder to speak his mind in the western tradition of freedom of speech, whether or not we agree with him? Or are we going to back down, selling out the classicaly liberal ideal of ideological conflict and hide in fear behind a veil of "multi-culturalism"?

3/31/2008 1:56:57 PM

Quote :

"I've already met the Guy That's Convinced The Earth Is Only 2700 Years Old, the Loudspeaker Evangelicals On The Side Of The Highway, and the Lady That's Convinced Everyone Under Age 50 Is Going To Hell."

How many heads (collectively) have they severed?

Oh wait.

3/31/2008 2:54:30 PM

I consider myself an agnostic. But I get tired of people trotting out the old saw, "OMG look how many people has Christianity killed!"

You could pretty much apply that to almost any pre-enlightenment religion. The question isn't, "what did the crusaders do?"

3/31/2008 3:02:32 PM

No, of course not. The question is "what can we do to fix our world"?

Obviously fundamentalist religions are a problem. Just because some of us don't want Christians getting away with using this shit to prop their egos doesn't mean we support fundamentalists of any stripe.

3/31/2008 5:28:33 PM

Lafta

You're a bit late

All that already happened

in the 60's

But people like you don't really bother with 'facts'

3/31/2008 5:28:55 PM

Who's saying he doesn't have a right to make and/or distribute these videos?

His rights seem pretty well secure. Or is it really time to play the "OMF NOBODY AGREES = DISCRIMINATION" card?

3/31/2008 9:26:07 PM

The Dutch government tried to stop the film from being broadcast. It was condemned by the UN's Secretary General among others as "hate-speech".

And to top it all off, the provider hosting the film's website, Network Solutions, shut down the site before the film was even released. This ISP also hosts the terrorist organization Hezbollah's website, hizbollah.org. If that's not hypocritical, I don't know what is.



[Edited on March 31, 2008 at 9:44 PM. Reason : 2]

3/31/2008 9:38:53 PM

Wow.

You gotta be pretty out there for the Dutch to fuck up your shit.

Condemnation is simply another form of free speech. It's not like anyone lacks the right to say "I condemn this horrible attempt to incite violence against Muslims." That's not hypocrisy, and is totally consistent with free speech.

As for Hezbollah, aren't they a political party these days?

3/31/2008 9:53:07 PM

A quote from Ban Ki-Moon, Secretary-General of the UN:

Quote :

" I condemn, in the strongest terms, the airing of Geert Wilders’ offensively anti-Islamic film. There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free expression is not at stake here. I acknowledge the efforts of the Government of the Netherlands to stop the broadcast of this film, and appeal for calm to those understandably offended by it. Freedom must always be accompanied by social responsibility. The United Nations is the centre of the world’s efforts to advance mutual respect, understanding and dialogue. We must also recognize that the real fault line is not between Muslim and Western societies, as some would have us believe, but between small minorities of extremists on different sides with a vested interest in stirring hostility and conflict. "

Sounds like he's calling for censorship, despite his "the right of free expression is not at stake here" line.

4/1/2008 1:43:11 PM

Quote :

"I find it most interesting that there isn't any personal commentary in this video, yet anyone who has been associated with its production and distribution has been threatened - so much so that LiveLeak won't even host it anymore. The only thing in there are excerpts from the Quran and video clips of prominent radicals. No personal commentary or 'objectionable' material, other than the cartoon in the first 10 seconds. It's entirely too disturbing how afraid some of these people are of the plain truth."

It is pretty generally agreed that the direct threat of physical violence against someone is not consistent with free speech.

4/1/2008 2:51:55 PM

when the plain truth just might be considered "hate speech," it presents quite a debacle in this and in many other issues.

4/1/2008 3:55:06 PM

Quote :

"but Christians more or less discount the entire book of Exodus"

except, of course, for Exodus 20:3-17, which Christians want painted on every wall in every school and courthouse in the country, and which supposedly acts as the very foundation our entire judicial system is based on!! Try telling a Christian that the 10 Commandments not to be considered important simply because within pages of those verses are other versus supporting the owning of slaves, selling daughters into prostitution, and killing non-Christians.

Quote :

"Are you trying to imply that Hitler killed the Jews in the name of Christianity? That's an interesting theory, especially considering that Hitler wasn't exactly a Christian himself."

Hitler wasn't a Christian, or wasn't motivated by Christian philosophies? That's funny - do you think he was under duress when writing Mein Kampf, like someone was forcing him to write this against his will?

Quote :

"The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took to the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-and this against their own nation."

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch11.html

Quote :

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: 'by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch02.html
(hmm, i'm wonder who that sounds like.... message_topic.aspx?topic=392028

4/1/2008 4:08:31 PM