http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_economy

Quote :

"To help people weather the downturn immediately, McCain urged Congress to institute a "gas-tax holiday" by suspending the 18.4 cent federal gas tax and 24.4 cent diesel tax from Memorial Day to Labor Day. He also renewed his call for the United States to stop adding to the Strategic Petroleum Reserve and thus lessen to some extent the worldwide demand for oil. Combined, he said, the two proposals would reduce gas prices, which would have a trickle-down effect, and "help to spread relief across the American economy.""

Thoughts?

4/15/2008 1:03:14 PM

as much as i'd love to get a break at the pump, this seems like a temporary (not to mention BAD) solution to a permanent problem.

4/15/2008 1:04:39 PM

Why is this a bad solution? I haven't made up my mind on it, I just want some intelligent discussion. McCain would argue probably that it will stem the tide of inflation, help out truckers, etc. And while we'd all like to have more pork road projects, what's the point if you can't afford the gas to drive on them?

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:07 PM. Reason : and yes it's only a temporary solution]

4/15/2008 1:06:51 PM

WOOHOO! LET'S INCREASE CONSUMPTION OF OIL. THAT'S SURE TO HELP!

4/15/2008 1:07:25 PM

would dropping gas from $4.00 to $3.82 really increase consumption? remember that short term gasoline demand is pretty inelastic. people have to get to work etc. Only over the long term do people make larger lifestyle changes, buy different vehicles, etc.


[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:09 PM. Reason : but yes people do cut the number of vacations etc in the short term]

4/15/2008 1:08:22 PM

as much as i hate pork; road construction is one category i don't mind paying taxes for. Although i do hate paying $3.12/gallon.

4/15/2008 1:11:12 PM

hopefully this will force some companies to (GASP!) buy local

4/15/2008 1:11:19 PM

YAY! Gas prices will just increase more and we will have no money for necessary transportation projects. I saw one study last year that compared gas prices and taxes between neighboring states and there was no statistically significant correlation between gas tax and what you pay at the pump.

Obviously the answer is to let our infrastructure to deteriorate, so I can burn gas in traffic and pay increased maintenance costs for my car rather than keep Federal gas tax one summer. Another sign that McCain is in over is head when it comes to the economy and managing government projects depending on stable revenue sources. At least we can take care of oil companies.

4/15/2008 1:17:52 PM

^^hmm yase let me purchase this computar from my local blacksmith.

There are so may better places to take tax money from than roads.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2008 1:19:30 PM

Quote :

" Obviously the answer is to let our infrastructure to deteriorate"

Are federal gas taxes primarily responsible for maintaining local secondary roads and highways?

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : or are they mostly used for pork projects? I'm not sure honestly.]

4/15/2008 1:23:13 PM

^^i purchase computers once every few years.

i purchase food pretty much every day. which one do you think the transportation costs are a substantial consideration?

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:24 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2008 1:24:24 PM

fyi most grocery stores and restaurants purchase food/ingredients locally. Specificly because its so much cheaper than having it shipped in.


However, there are lots of things that aren't grown or manufactured locally that must come from other regions.

4/15/2008 1:28:45 PM

and we shouldn't encourage otherwise

4/15/2008 1:34:50 PM

You would have to lower fuel prices more significantly and for a longer period of time than mccain is asking to make switching sources of goods worth while.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:40 PM. Reason : n]

4/15/2008 1:39:58 PM

also theres nothing wrong with buying cheaper goods from non-local sources.

Unless of course you aren't smart enough to reallocate your newly available local resources to making other goods.

4/15/2008 1:42:55 PM

why inch towards that at all?

mccain seems to be misaddressing this problem. it's not a tax problem. it's a resource problem. it's in high demand. we use far too much of it.

4/15/2008 1:43:52 PM

Quote :

"it's not a tax problem. it's a resource problem. it's in high demand. we use far too much of it."

yep.


and this is ME agreeing with this. The anti-tax vote with my wallet guy.

4/15/2008 1:49:53 PM

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/transportation/july-dec07/infrastructure_08-15.html
The majority of Federal gas tax goes directly into tranportation projects, with the remainder going to a variety of earmarked projects, many of which are transportation or other infrastructure related. A portion often is returned to the locality to support transit or other transportation-related expenses. I would certainly agree that since gas tax is treated much like a user-fee, we need to make sure we are getting the biggest bang for our buck and eliminate non-transportation-related uses of the money. However, most of it goes to transportation and eliminating gas tax is certainly not the answer.

4/15/2008 1:53:12 PM

Is John McCain realy in the hospital? Apparently he fainted and got airlifted to a hospital...

4/15/2008 1:55:13 PM

^^^^Because if i can buy cheaper goods from somewhere else, it saves money.

But this isn't what mccain is talking about. Hes talking about temprorary tax relief so people will get out and do stuff (spend moneys) instead of doing nothing because gas costs so much.

Its temporary relief so our economy wont go down the shitter even more. If you want real, long term price relief we need less government regulation on new power generaton sources and more tax credits for energy efficiency.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 1:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2008 1:55:15 PM

Temporary relief at the cost of necessary infrastructure. Decent infrastructure will stimulate far more economic growth than a summer gas holiday.

4/15/2008 2:03:57 PM

^^you're talking about saving $4-$5 per tank tops. it's like trying attacking a tank with a toothpick.

the second part of your post i agree with.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 2:05 PM. Reason : asdf]

4/15/2008 2:05:06 PM

Infastructure being code for more roads which promote more driving.

We actually should add an increased guzzler tax for tanks over 20 gallons (non diesel) to start paying for public transportation.

4/15/2008 2:19:58 PM

we should just fund more public transportation in general. at least in this area.

4/15/2008 2:21:07 PM

i said it was a bad idea because a) it's still going to be expensive, and b) at the rate our country blows through tax dollars, we will likely end up paying for this tax break in the future by way more than it's worth. i would imagine some scenario like "there's no money to maintain these roads because we had that tax break" (which would probably be a big fat lie) and "so we're going to have to increase taxes for 6 months to make up for it" and then we'd end up with a permanently inflated tax rate.

of course this is just my pessimistic "the government is evil" theory. but to me it makes about as much sense as bush's rebate check. my $600 now going towards paying my taxes, ironically.

4/15/2008 2:22:41 PM

Money has to come from somewhere.

Its not like we can print more for every silly whim we have.

4/15/2008 2:22:50 PM

Ok how about this.

We get rid of the Gas Tax,
cut federal spending somewhere else,
put the saved money toward infrastructure improvements.

Since all of you are saying we should cut gas consumption, then how do you think the gas taxes are going to continue to fund road improvements? As gas consumption tapers off then less revenue will be generated from gas sales anyway.

4/15/2008 2:23:22 PM

What are you, retarded?

Nobody is going to completely stop driving.

They can't.

4/15/2008 2:24:37 PM

I guess what I was getting at is that as passenger cars become more fuel efficient and alternative fuels come in to play just taxing gas is not going to be a fair or effective way to generate revenue.

4/15/2008 2:26:54 PM

There are other mechanisms by which road user fees can be collected. To my knowledge, McCain has not advocated pursuing any of those.

4/15/2008 2:48:15 PM

is it not obvious what would happen if this was enacted?

here, let me give you a hint



you can bet there will be some pissed people come September, when prices will all of a sudden jump 18 cents

4/15/2008 3:00:56 PM

i for one enjoy giving up my 29 + 18 cents at the pump for each gallon i buy

i enjoy fueling pork projects and non documented /private spendings that the public never hears about.

4/15/2008 3:07:18 PM

this idea is horribly atrocious.


you don't keep a boat from sinking by dumping out your belongings, you patch the damn hole!


until we
a) start building more nuclear power plants,
b) improve refinery production and build more of those,
c) research and incorporate alternative fuel sources into the mainstream

we're always going to be stuck with this... unless a force of 2,000 citizens march the headquarters of shell and exxon mobil and ask them nicely to stop holding us hostage or become hostages themselves. mwahahaa.

4/15/2008 3:19:42 PM

No shit we need to find alternative fuel sources. McCain has made it clear that this is a prority of his. That doesn't mean that we can't try to find ways to lower gas prices NOW. Any way that the government ends up with less of my money is a good thing to me.

4/15/2008 3:29:34 PM

I guess I am just a cheap son of a bitch.

The federal government is already taxing the money I spend at the pump when they tax the gas companies, then taxed when its purchased by me the consumer, it is also taxed when they tax the income of the trucking companies that bring it to the gas station. Then the states tax it again when it is sold.

I mean holy fuck maybe we should get a fucking tax bill for burning it too. Its not like we use it for productive things like going to work.

4/15/2008 3:31:08 PM

that is an entirely different issue than a temporary tax halt.

i mean i don't necessarily disagree with you about being taxed to death, i just think that this is not a good idea in the long run

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2008 3:34:58 PM

gas saving protip #108: Provide incentives to companies to have their employees work from home.

4/15/2008 3:35:31 PM

I would love to see the elimination of federal gas taxes (let the states charge sales tax if they want) but I'm not convinced this would make a significant change to anything. Except short term gas consumption.

4/15/2008 3:44:17 PM

Quote :

"gas saving protip #108: Provide incentives to companies to have their employees work from home."

Thats stupid and impractical.

Maybe provide tax incentives for the production and ownership of more fuel efficient vehicles. They need to bring the cost of them in line with conventional vehicles.

4/15/2008 3:54:10 PM

its not stupid or impractical at all.

Whats stupid and impractical is having someone drive 30 minutes when they could do the same work from home.

4/15/2008 3:57:18 PM

i think some people can successfully work from home. i think many businesses and people would suffer substantially from not having the office environment.

4/15/2008 4:04:10 PM

TRICKLE

DOWN

EFFECT

4/15/2008 4:06:26 PM

^^ which is why you would encourage companies to do it, not penalize them for not doing it.

4/15/2008 4:09:15 PM

or we could encourage people to live closer to where they work and provide a usable public transportation system.

4/15/2008 4:13:41 PM

Quote :

"gas saving protip #108: Provide incentives to companies to have their employees work from home."

This obviously doesn't work for every business model, but being in the field of Architecture I can say most assuredly that it has helped out our little firm tremendously. Lower overhead, no more commuting issues, flexible hours has actually increased our efficiency (though I suspect we're also working longer hours and just not billing for more than full-time.)

It's a good strategy to implement where it works... As for this suspending gas taxes for the summer... Pandering + Feel good move = No actual help to the consumer in the long run AND probably hurt the environment too. Good job Mccain.

4/15/2008 4:14:14 PM

^^ What the fuck do you think this is? Europe?

4/15/2008 4:15:26 PM

As policy this doesn't make much sense for reasons already listed in this thread.

As politics, I think it will help contrast McCain from Obama in the debates if gas prices ever comes up (and they likely will). Obama will say that gas prices are too high and that so that means (somehow) we should tax oil company profits. McCain will point out that makes no sense and that his plan will actually lower gas prices at the pump for consumers (though temporarily).

This at least gives McCain ground for counter attack if Obama wants try to go toe for toe over oil in the general election. He has already tried making some issue of it in the primaries, so this is probably a good idea politically.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ``]

4/15/2008 4:26:37 PM

par for the course. assume the electorate is retarded.

4/15/2008 4:27:38 PM

^ Yah I know, that seems to have been Obama's strategy all along. He's hoping that there is still enough class resentment among voters that they will do anything to stick it to the oil companies, not realizing that taxing oil company profits will only hurt them at the pump.

But that seems to be the general Democratic attitude these days. It makes me really miss Bill. What ever happened to all the Third-Way Democrats of the '90s?

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 4:35 PM. Reason : ```]

4/15/2008 4:33:20 PM

By the way, gas taxes are tacked on before you see them at the pump. Does he think oil companies will automatically cut the full amount off of their prices? The immediate effect would likely be as much on profit margins as consumers. If McCain wants to argue that more assistance to oil companies is the best way to economic stimulus, at least we'll be entertained.

[Edited on April 15, 2008 at 4:36 PM. Reason : .]

4/15/2008 4:34:52 PM