we should have listened to them all along, they said it in the 70's and now its happening again
great thinkers like lafta, ridiculed for even suggesting that oil is not an infinite supply, now are clearly giants among boys

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=501451&page=1

shortages within 5 years now considered a possibility
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c2955660-2696-11dd-9c95-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1

5/21/2008 6:19:22 PM

CarZin

Quote :

"Just a 10-15% efficiency for the motor pool fleet in general will have the market flooded with unneeded oil. 2007"

[Edited on May 21, 2008 at 6:21 PM. Reason : what a maroon]

5/21/2008 6:21:31 PM

Funny, I recently found this:

Quote :

"New study points to vast, untapped oil resources by Kirby Lee Davis The Journal Record May 19, 2008 TULSA – Broken Arrow energy analyst Rafael Sandrea rolls his eyes when he considers today’s $120 oil futures, much less forecasts of $150 or more. As energy traders and government leaders fear existing reserves and production may no longer meet rising demand from China, India and other emerging nations, much less the U.S., Sandrea offers a radical reminder – more than 11 trillion barrels of identified light, sweet crude still remain untapped in the ground, ready and waiting. That’s enough to last more than 400 years at current world oil production levels, said the longtime oil executive – and it comes on top of the all the shale oil, heavier sours and other plentiful reserves of lesser-quality crude scattered around the world. Instead of allocating more and more exploration and production dollars to tapping new discoveries, where pent-up geological pressure eases getting the crude out of the ground, Sandrea said energy companies should begin employing enhanced oil recovery methods to further drain existing, identified fields. “In the U.S., two-thirds of the oil is still in the ground,” he said. In Oklahoma, he estimated about 85 percent of the 100 billion discovered barrels remains in the earth. The University of Tulsa-trained Sandrea draws from more than 30 years of experience in the oil and gas field, having sold his Caracas, Venezuela, company in 2004 to settle in Broken Arrow, launching IPC Petroleum Consultants. Rather than face retirement, he makes his living as a researcher, leading two to three industry workshops each year around the world. These now focus on enhanced oil recovery, or EOR. This month, he released a study of world oil reserves through the Oil & Gas Journal Research Center, a subsidiary of PennEnergy of Tulsa, that suggests EOR could have a dramatic impact on today’s oil demand. He will present the report next month at the International Energy Agency’s Paris gathering, having made a similar talk earlier this month at a Society of Petroleum Engineers meeting in Houston. Sandrea said today’s tight energy supplies result in part from relatively flat production levels since 2004. Rising demand across the globe made price pressure inevitable. “In the 1960s we were discovering 35 billion barrels of oil a year and we were consuming just 11 billion barrels of oil a year,” he said. “Today we are discovering 10 billion a year and, with growing demand in China and India, we consume 26 billion.” But he does not adhere to the “peak oil” theories now entering into some price calculations and long-term doomsday reports. Instead, he sees today’s market scenario as a simple example where the energy industry no longer finds itself with the production cushion it enjoyed for decades. “We’ve approached it just from one end until now, finding new reserves instead of extending old ones,” he said. Since production companies skim the top of those reserves until declining basin pressures make new discoveries more cost-effective, Sandrea said they have effectively tapped only 9 percent of the discovered reserves. He suggested EOR technologies could unlock 70 percent or more of that remaining oil. Although now at use in about 300 projects around the world, Sandrea said enhanced oil recovery technologies only account for 3 percent of present world production, even though those techniques do not add significantly to production costs at today’s prices. Since EOR usage has come primarily in the U.S., China, Venezuela and Canada, he said its potential for unlocking Middle East, North Sea and other reserves remains quite promising. “If we can increase that just 1 percent, that’s 100 billion barrels of oil,” Sandrea said of EOR usage. That would equal results from 10 years of new discoveries at the current rate, or four years of world oil production at current levels. That boost would require capital spending of $200 billion to $400 billion, he said, compared to today’s global exploration and development spending of about $260 billion a year. His report estimates that EOR could add reserves at a capital expenditure of $2 to $4 per barrel, compared with $4 to $6 for deepwater development, $13 for acquisitions and more than $14 for global finding and development costs. Sandrea suggested governments adopt more incentives to spur increasing use of EOR techniques. “Instead of taking windfall profit taxes, the practical thing to do would be to leave that in the industry and incentivize that into EOR,” he said. Such a “shadow tax” would help encourage more enhanced oil methods and return more production to U.S. shores. The researcher sees his report as providing a supply model for future production planning – one that would help the natural gas industry as much as the oil sector. “They’re like Siamese twins,” he said of the two industries. “They nurture each other. You can’t look at one without the other.” "

5/21/2008 6:48:45 PM

^wow, one lousy article is more important the the most respected Oil analyst from around the world

5/21/2008 7:29:24 PM

From Wikipedia:

Quote :

"The total amount of oil in an oil reservoir is known as oil in place. However, because of reservoir characteristics and limitations in petroleum production technology, only a fraction of this oil can be brought to the surface, and it is only this producible fraction that is considered to be reserves. The ratio of reserves to oil in place for a given field is often referred to as the recovery factor. The recovery factor of a field may change over time based on operating history and in response to changes in technology and economics. The recovery factor may also rise over time if additional investment is made in enhanced oil recovery techniques such as gas injection or water-flooding."

There is far more oil than the oil companies let on. They just don't want to spend the money. Theres no need to be Chicken Little.

5/21/2008 7:57:12 PM

they just dont want to spend the money?

what difference does it make, if we can get it we cant get it.

5/21/2008 8:08:13 PM

If some oil could be dug up at $150 a barrel in real dollars 10 years ago, the same probably isn't true now.

You know, because of the increasing price of oil.

5/21/2008 8:10:42 PM

From what I understand, the problem is not running out of oil - the problem is finding a way to increase daily output, as demand continues to rise from developing countries.

The article above seems to want to address fears about running out of oil, but that's not really the current problem.

5/21/2008 9:03:07 PM

Quote :

""We cannot change the world market," said Robert Malone, chairman and president of BP America Inc. "Today's high prices are linked to the failure both here and abroad to increase supplies, renewables and conservation." Malone's remarks were echoed by John Hofmeister, president of Shell. "The fundamental laws of supply and demand are at work," said Hofmeister. The market is squeezed by exporting nations managing demand for their own interest and other nations subsidizing prices to encourage economic growth, he said. In addition, Hofmeister said access to resources in the United States has been limited for the past 30 years. "I agree, it's not a free market," he said. The executives pushed the idea that large parts of the U.S. that are currently closed to drilling - like sections of Alaska, the Rocky Mountains and the continental shelf - should be opened. "The place to start the free market is in our own country," said one executive. [The drilling ban] sets the stage for OPEC to do what we are doing in our own country, and that is effectively limiting supplies." "We must work together to find a real solution," said Lowe. "U.S. oil companies should be viewed not as scapegoats, but as assets." "

It's shameful how these politicians, who create nothing, attack the producers of the world.



http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/21/news/economy/oil_hearing/index.htm?postversion=2008052112&eref=yahoo

5/21/2008 9:43:25 PM

Fully Electric
0-60mph - 3.2 seconds
250 miles per charge
Charges in 3.5 hours



Fuck you oil. And fuck you saudi arabia.

5/21/2008 9:59:39 PM

Quote :

"250 miles per charge"

ehh, kind of sketch

5/21/2008 10:13:11 PM

thats not really that bad..its 250miles for me from greenville, sc to raleigh which is about a 4hr trip. Thats a pretty decent distance to get off one charge.

5/21/2008 10:17:08 PM

ok i fudged a little

220miles per charge

but they said it could acheive 257 with a good trip

5/21/2008 10:17:33 PM

the problems with electric cars seem to be alot more worth it as prices go up
but one technological boom i remember is TV
tv was hard to figure out until the demand for it was great and within no time bunches of people figured out how to make it work and to make it alot cheaper
so im sure we'll see an electric revolution shortly

5/21/2008 10:17:38 PM

5/21/2008 10:20:49 PM

i like GM's car better

5/21/2008 10:21:25 PM

fucking oil companies all see a gigantic boom in electric cars coming up. not only will it save our civilization, but the god damn oil companies are going to squeeze every last cent out of us until we convert to fully electric.

fuckers. they can kiss my ass goodbye soon too. i'll never buy a gallon of gas except to fill up my lawn mower come 2009.

5/21/2008 10:23:34 PM

and these stupid ass conspiracies about oil running out are just that. conspiracies. there's so much oil left on this planet it's pathetic to think about such nonsense.

5/21/2008 10:25:49 PM

^you dont understand peak oil theory, it talks about supply and demand pushing prices up
and we are at the peak of production for cheap and easy to find oil
its all down hill from here

but i can see how oil companies are trying to recoup their investments now before we switch to something else

5/21/2008 10:39:15 PM

no, understand peak oil fine and i have no issues with it.

but yes, the oil companies are lying their asses off about not making profits right now. they know their days are numbered

5/21/2008 10:55:23 PM

expensive oil is going to be painful in the short term, but will hopefully result in long term solutions to energy dependence


Also, the world will never completely run out of oil. The supply is finite, but so is what most people can afford to pay for it.

5/22/2008 12:09:00 AM

Quote :

"'The fundamental laws of supply and demand are at work,' said Hofmeister. The market is squeezed by exporting nations managing demand for their own interest and other nations subsidizing prices to encourage economic growth, he said. [b]In addition, Hofmeister said access to resources in the United States has been limited for the past 30 years. 'I agree, it's not a free market,' he said. The executives pushed the idea that large parts of the U.S. that are currently closed to drilling - like sections of Alaska, the Rocky Mountains and the continental shelf - should be opened. 'The place to start the free market is in our own country,' said one executive. '[The drilling ban] sets the stage for OPEC to do what we are doing in our own country, and that is effectively limiting supplies.' 'We must work together to find a real solution,' said Lowe. 'U.S. oil companies should be viewed not as scapegoats, but as assets.'"

Hear, hear!

5/22/2008 12:24:41 AM

Quote :

"There is far more oil than the oil companies let on. They just don't want to spend the money. Theres no need to be Chicken Little. "

So you're admitting that the oil companies are allowing oil prices to shoot up so they can make billions of dollars on the backs of everyone else?

5/22/2008 12:27:57 AM

You have to refuel your car just about that mileage anyway so I don't see how it is a big deal.....sure you have to charge it but to not use gas would be great.

5/22/2008 3:14:26 AM

^ I'm all for efficiency. Why not air-powered cars?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmqpGZv0YT4

5/22/2008 3:21:07 AM

air an electric cars are going to win. They're just so close to mainstream market right now, it would be a complete failure of capitalism if someone didn't manage to market them.

5/22/2008 7:42:41 AM

the man or woman who invents the first cheap electric car to be sold en masse on the open market

should be considered nothing short of the jesus christ of the environment and the economy.

it's going to happen in the next 3-5 years i predict as well. (but it's gonna be hell with the oil until that point)

but this person is going to save civilizations

5/22/2008 8:08:26 AM

don't we already have cheap electric cars? Or at least short range ones.

5/22/2008 8:12:49 AM

Quote :

"to be sold en masse"

5/22/2008 8:18:34 AM

i think a great mid-step are plug in hybrids that are being pushed right now. use electric for city driving, and then if you are on a long trip, fill it up with gas for very long ranges as it sips the fuel to charge the battery.

5/22/2008 8:45:05 AM

^^^

i hope a cheap one comes out soon. i haven't seen a "cheap" car yet. (but that's relative to my budget)

5/22/2008 9:38:23 AM

as Gob Bluth would say

OH COME ON!

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=482004




[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason : g]

5/22/2008 10:36:45 AM

Didn't the oil industry CEOs go before congress three years ago for the same reason? One of them should make a speech proclaiming "Senator, I blame you for current oil prices. We came before you three years ago and told you we needed access to more reserves, and instead you passed legislation blocking us. We could be producing that oil by now. But, instead of producing more oil there is not enough to go around at $60 a barrel, so now we are paying $130 a barrel. I will see to it that your constituents know what you did in the face of my warnings. Instead of openning up American supply you voted the way Saudi Arabia wanted you to. Congrats. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go bathe in the money you gave us."

5/22/2008 11:19:46 AM

ok, i just added this to my topics. i don't care if we talk in this thread instead of mine, as long as its talked of.


so:

Quote :

"The executives pushed the idea that large parts of the U.S. that are currently closed to drilling - like sections of Alaska, the Rocky Mountains and the continental shelf - should be opened. "

were there really that many reptars and carboniferous trees in Alaska back in the day? enough to offset wells that are running dry now (i.e. UAE's keg is floating and will be dry by 2016) ?

i think not.

we're in for it - the shit is running out

5/22/2008 12:08:27 PM

not to sound too optimistic but we at least got to have like 30 years of the shit left and in that time i'd hope we'd have some new technology that doesnt require oil

5/22/2008 12:10:06 PM

Its not peak oil yet dude.

This is actually the free market in effect.

Not that you, Lafta, have the talent to really understand such complicated things

So I'll explain it in your terms:

DAAAAAAY TOOOK DURRRR JOBBBBBZZZZZ

5/22/2008 12:50:15 PM

i was just listening to a liberal campaign add on the radio and they were talking about saving the energy of this nation by:

1) filing a lawsuit against OPEC
2) more wind and solar energy
3) and personal methane reclamation


scientists and rational peoples response:

1) lol
2) lol
3) lolwut?

5/22/2008 12:58:37 PM

hybrids and electrics are becoming more popular.

but we need to increase nuclear power plants.

which will allow us to convert water to hydrogen on a large scale

France has it right. let's learn from them.

5/22/2008 2:20:55 PM

of course using nuclear power plants are the right way to go (god help us...)

but I'm not sure about this

Quote :

"which will allow us to convert water to hydrogen on a large scale"

i don't know if this is the correct road to go down of if it's just a bunch of hype

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2008 2:22:41 PM

^^fuck those european socialists

/right wing loon

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2008 2:22:44 PM

Ok, are they any close to reasonably priced electric vehicles out there that can drive 100 miles-ish?

Like there were 10 years ago.

5/22/2008 2:37:18 PM

I am pretty sure its not the conservatives that have been blocking new nuclear reactor construction.

5/22/2008 2:41:22 PM

^ Or wind farm construction.

Cape Wind anyone?

5/22/2008 3:20:35 PM

Quote :

"were there really that many reptars and carboniferous trees in Alaska back in the day? enough to offset wells that are running dry now (i.e. UAE's keg is floating and will be dry by 2016) ?"

How cute. Well, not to burst your bubble, but very little of what we call "fossil fuels" actually came from dead dinosaurs.

5/22/2008 7:47:43 PM

right, most comes from plants during the carboniferous era. was Alaska a hotbed of such flora?

5/23/2008 10:08:57 AM

algae.

5/23/2008 10:11:30 AM

^^It's common knowledge that there are approximately 10 billion barrels of recoverable oil in ANWR. Hell, right next to ANWR in Prudhoe Bay, they have already extracted several billion barrels of oil over the past several decades. And the Alaskan National Petroleum Reserve has several billion more barrels to tap into.

I'm not really sure what you are trying to get at.

5/23/2008 10:14:31 AM

agreed

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy

how long will that last? then what?

if we're clutching at this straw, we've peaked

5/23/2008 11:13:03 AM

That will last for decades. Remember, we don't need the ANWR to supply all our oil needs, just satisfy the marginal consumers. We will still have large quantities of oil flowing from California, Texas, Mexico, Canada, and the middle east. Just adding a million barrels a day to current production is the difference between $150 oil and $50 oil. And at a million barrels a day, 10 billion will last for 27 years. Which is, of course, assuming no more oil is found there, which is absurd, because no oil field in the world has produced less than many times its own proven oil reserves.

And what makes this straw so special? We are the only country on the planet which declares its own resources off limits to production. Peak Oil is a geological theory, our current situation is purely political. If passing a single bill by congress would throw world production to new highs then it is absurd to suggest we have peaked.

[Edited on May 23, 2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason : .,.]

5/23/2008 11:49:03 AM

^ just wait for about 15 liberals to come in here Loneshark and prove all mathematics to be incorrect and vent about how aweful it would be to do such things.

5/23/2008 12:01:25 PM