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StTexan
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^yeah guest on Hannity was all about how at least he condemned both sides. Hannity just kept harping on how this could happen when they knew there was a protest down the street etc

1/6/2021 11:11:12 PM

rwoody
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Does anyone remember the video, I think from this year or late last year, where someone went on fox, maybe tucker, destroyed them and fox didn't air, so the person airs there own version?

1/7/2021 11:20:31 PM

Cabbage
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Is this what you're thinking of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE&list=LL8WoC_-EU5gPMXQZay6iXuA&index=23&t=0s

1/8/2021 1:48:24 AM

rwoody
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Yessss! If Earl comes back you've earned my silence for 3 pages of argument!

1/8/2021 7:15:52 AM

Cabbage
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^LOL!

1/8/2021 7:44:45 AM

thegoodlife3
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Biden was asked more questions about the 2024 election than the pandemic during his presser

3/25/2021 3:00:03 PM

The Coz
Tempus Fugitive
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And what are you inferring or concluding about that?

3/25/2021 8:55:35 PM

thegoodlife3
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that the idea of a liberal media in 2021 is laughable

3/25/2021 8:58:50 PM

CaelNCSU
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I'm curious about the definition of liberal, media, and liberal media.

3/29/2021 2:56:05 PM

thegoodlife3
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https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/19/politics/maxine-waters-derek-chauvin-blm/index.html

the world is full of godawful pundits, but I’m not sure there’s anyone worse than Chris Cillizza

absolute garbage

4/19/2021 2:48:25 PM

StTexan
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^agreed. He is pretty annoying

4/19/2021 3:37:50 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Associated Press staff received a memo this morning that @vv1lder is no longer with the company, after conservatives rallied to get her fired because she was part of Students for Justice in Palestine in college https://t.co/zcmmXn4fk0"


This should go in cancel culture thread too prob

5/20/2021 7:34:03 PM

rwoody
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Really hitting the anti defund propaganda pretty hard lately

6/24/2021 6:03:56 PM

Pupils DiL8t
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I find what I think is a recent phenomenon to be fascinating. Below is an example; a far-left journalist claiming that Tucker Carlson was spied upon by the NSA and then pointing to The Federalist, a far-right publication, as evidence of this claim:

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1412950859588141057

I follow a number of far-left and far-right journalists and organizations on Twitter, and I've noticed recently that the different groups frequently like and retweet the other group's tweets, in both directions.

It seems that the two groups share a similar dislike for the "state" and its apparatus, but yet they also seem to have bizarre sympathies for autocratic leaders and movements.

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but it seems noteworthy.

7/8/2021 11:31:15 AM

daaave
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There's a tradition of anti-imperialism and anti-US sentiment among people like Johnstone, Greenwald, Dore, etc, but I absolutely wouldn't consider them far-left. There's a lot to be gleaned from their work, but their analysis isn't rooted in any leftist ideology. If anything their bizarre affiliations to libertarians and people like Tucker Carlson illustrate the problem with trying to pin everyone to a strict left-right spectrum.

7/8/2021 11:44:35 AM

CaelNCSU
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Everything shifts left over time. If you were left in 2010 and voted for Obama in 2008 your standard views are now "far-right". The left from the 90s that read/followed Chomsky knew the media was a propaganda machine manufacturing consent for war/elite. Trump successfully stole the argument using the simple "fake news" narrative. This caused the left and media to weaponize "experts", and "conspiracy theories" in opposition to this new right "fake news" narrative.

This put the media and post 2015 left at odds with people like Taibbi and Greenwald who have been critical of the empire and media's role in it. The populist left (bernie bros) and the populist right (dey tewk our jerbs) have a common enemy. People like Taibbi, Thomas Frank [1] , Krystal and Saager [2] appeal to both groups. These people were hyper critical of Republicans a decade ago. Common concern astroturfing and various political issues like inequality and gerrymandering. Now if you care about inequality you are a racist bigot.

The elite left (silicon valley, lawyers, doctors, white collar) is the now the central demo of the left [4]. They have successfully shifted the narrative from populism, unions, and social decay to racism and concerns over transgender and other culture war issues of the population. The top 1% since 2012 has gained $22 TRILLION in wealth. Pretty amazing return. Vote $APPL, $RTX, and $AMZN.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_the_Matter_with_Kansas%3F_(book)
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_(news_show)
[3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/WFRBLT01000
[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listen,_Liberal

7/8/2021 1:40:41 PM

daaave
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The left-right spectrum is defined through class struggle and that hasn't changed. Being anti-war or pro-civil rights doesn't automatically make you a left winger and that's where things get confusing for a lot of people. It's why "lefties" like Greenwald/Dore/Johnstone will defend Carlson and ally with Libertarians. They agree on certain things, but fail to recognize that class struggle is always the primary contradiction in society. Everything else is secondary and follows whatever economic system is in place.

[Edited on July 8, 2021 at 2:11 PM. Reason : .]

7/8/2021 2:10:06 PM

CaelNCSU
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An alternate view is the red empire/blue empire I've brought up before. Both have their elites. Blue empire is technocratic, medical, lawyers. Red empire is basically the military and some industries like oil and gas. They've lost basically everything else.

Trump despite being a New Yorker is solidly red empire. Tim Cook dispute having slave labor in China and the Congo is blue empire.

The confusing part is both empires also includes the underclass. The red empires underclass is the trailer park conservative. The blue empire the street people and immigrants.

7/8/2021 2:18:51 PM

daaave
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There is only the working class and the owning class. The owning class has us focused on secondary issues (red/blue), because when class struggle is central, demands for systemic change get louder. Red and blue can find things to agree on. Left and right can not (generally), because their interests are diametrically opposed.

[Edited on July 8, 2021 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

7/8/2021 2:36:17 PM

rwoody
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Lmao that we are moving left. Dem presidents keep being the same centrist folks responding with minimal tiptoes in response to demands for systemic change. In contrast republican presidents have gotten progressively more fascist to the point that the entire party has to genuflect to a king figure.

7/8/2021 2:51:33 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ Left in the culture war sense. The point being Bezos and Cook are fine contributing democratic party if you don't come for the billions. Just make sure some redneck can't say something racist on twitter.

7/8/2021 4:48:33 PM

rwoody
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Ah yes, the culture War, the thing everyone should naturally infer when someone brings up the terms "left" and "right" and "everything" and "obama"

I forgot we are on fox News here

7/8/2021 7:43:13 PM

daaave
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I always like to refer to this quote from Blackshirts and Reds

Quote :
"Seizing upon anything but class, U.S. leftists today have developed an array of identity groups centering around ethnic, gender, cultural, and life-style issues. These groups treat their respective grievances as something apart from class struggle, and have almost nothing to say about the increasingly harsh politico-economic class injustices perpe­trated against us all. Identity groups tend to emphasize their distinc­tiveness and their separateness from each other, thus fractionalizing the protest movement. To be sure, they have important contributions to make around issues that are particularly salient to them, issues often overlooked by others. But they also should not downplay their common interests, nor overlook the common class enemy they face. The forces that impose class injustice and economic exploitation are the same ones that propagate racism, sexism, militarism, ecological devastation, homophobia, xenophobia, and the like.

People may not develop a class consciousness but they still are affected by the power, privileges, and handicaps related to the distri­bution of wealth and want. These realities are not canceled out by race, gender, or culture. The latter factors operate within an overall class society. The exigencies of class power and exploitation shape the social reality we all live in. Racism and sexism help to create superexploited categories of workers (minorities and women) and reinforce the notions of inequality that are so functional for a capi­talist system.

To embrace a class analysis is not to deny the significance of iden­tity issues but to see how these are linked both to each other and to the overall structure of politico-economic power. An awareness of class relations deepens our understanding of culture, race, gender, and other such things."


Lots of people figure out that identity politics are used to distract from overarching issues, but then go too far and take the reactionary stance that they don't matter at all. Wrongo

[Edited on July 8, 2021 at 8:21 PM. Reason : .]

7/8/2021 8:17:12 PM

TreeTwista10
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Some things are obviously moving left, unless you think that public opinion on things like gay marriage and marijuana legalization are the same as they were 20 years ago

7/8/2021 8:19:53 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Everything shifts left over time."

7/8/2021 8:21:52 PM

CaelNCSU
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What exactly is not moving left? As Tree posted above, with gay marriage. I was in a gay wedding as best man about 4 years ago for my college roommate. That same friend I was afraid would be beaten walking home 20 years ago. You can buy weed legally most places. ACA was passed and has stayed that way despite the impotent attempts at removing it.

In corporate America the last decade I've never met a republican. Voting for trump? The only people that admit that have 70 bumper stickers on their truck. I'm sure that's diagnosed in the DSM.

What exactly has moved more to the right? Are there KKK book stores next to churches in Raleigh now? More conservative and religious movies? Anti abortion protests with millions of people? Are corporations hiring biblical counselors to make sure they hire more religious workforces?

[Edited on July 9, 2021 at 9:54 AM. Reason : A]

7/9/2021 9:46:03 AM

rwoody
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The entire republican party? Half the voting public? The party a hair away from controlling congress? The Supreme Court? Like 30 state governments?

Union busting is the rule not the exception. Religious groups have SCOTUS approval to discriminate. Attitudes about taxes and social spending etc etc

7/9/2021 11:02:42 AM

Bullet
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i think this guy is a bit out of touch, living in California (i think)

7/9/2021 11:30:54 AM

CaelNCSU
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Other than Trump winning in 2016 I just see their power and influence waning. Republicans are completely deplatformed and completely uncool. Save some funny meme culture the new right weaponized they've been driven completely off the map.

The Georgia voting thing? Maybe they will make inroads in some of the states but I highly doubt it.

7/9/2021 12:00:54 PM

A Tanzarian
drip drip boom
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This is the political equivalent of poor people aren't poor because refrigerators.

7/9/2021 12:35:28 PM

thegoodlife3
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Quote :
" Republicans are completely deplatformed and completely uncool."


lol

if gaining power by any means necessary is cool, they’re Miles Davis

7/9/2021 12:42:49 PM

rwoody
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I don't even know what this guy is arguing.

But btw after (at least) two years of BLM and defund police movements, NYC just elected a heavily pro police mayor that has been propped up by media's hammering or "crime wave" propaganda.

The left is making small inroads to power while the right has just taken over every level or the republican party.

7/9/2021 1:09:47 PM

CaelNCSU
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I'm arguing the right has no power and you would expect to see more left policies win in the near term. The type of person that would go to the stop the steal riot is not the type of person capable of keeping or holding power.

I lived in LA for the last 10 years. Three coworkers have had people break into their homes in the last year, and one while they were at home. One was assaulted in broad daylight. There are rampant homeless encampments with hundreds of bicycles in piles in the open visible. Another coworker has had his catalytic converter stolen three times this last year. Catalytic converters have become impossible to buy at a markup. I called in a dead homeless guy on the sidewalk people walked over like he wasn't there. Anything not nailed down or visible in your vehicle will be stolen.

Despite the hysteria about the crime increase it certainly feels real in LA. Quite a few people bailed and moved to the burbs, me included. Maybe it's media propaganda but it's understandable why people are rethinking defund the police in those areas. I don't see how that's a trend right, it's more practical reasons because of the situation locally.

Despite right wing fantasies of the police coming to the rescue of the rednecks, they are totally a tool of power. No matter the law they are their to serve the status quo.

[Edited on July 9, 2021 at 1:41 PM. Reason : A]

7/9/2021 1:40:35 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"I'm arguing the right has no power "


This is just ignorant or naive one.

As for your other blurb anecdotal stories about victims of crime is not evidence of a crime wave. I'm not sure how increasing police fundings in cities wiht already massive police funding would solve any of the problems you describe but that's off topic (although just the thought of solving the poor using the police is pretty right wing)

Quote :
"don't see how that's a trend right,"


I didn't say it was but it certainly isn't left.

Quote :
"serve the status quo"


In a nation that serves the rich the status quo IS right wing

7/9/2021 2:30:59 PM

CaelNCSU
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^ I think that's the main disagreement. There is authoritarian left and right. As stated above lots of left initiatives seem to get passed, but maybe I'm naive but where are the examples of right leaning ones?

Would you say the police in a left state China or Russia are right wing? There is always an elite. Whether there is circulation of the elite [1] depends on how aristocratic vs democratic the state is. States can be monarchies, oligarchies, or democracies. The only meaningful distinction is whether it's fascist and race based vs some other criteria like admission to Yale. Functionally for the non elite it's the same.

LA is spending something like $1 billion a year on the homeless situation and it got worse every year the last five years. Using the cops to at least clean the needles off the street and out of parks after everything else has failed seems reasonable. The corruption and ineffectiveness of these programs is what has people frustrated. They want some solution.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulation_of_elite



[Edited on July 9, 2021 at 3:15 PM. Reason : A ]

7/9/2021 3:00:47 PM

rwoody
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WSJ publishes a letter to the editor from a former president/presumed future presidential candidate allowing him a national platform two claim the election was rigged, a clear and proven lie

10/28/2021 10:31:57 PM

rwoody
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Quote :
"Unarmed Black teen murdered by a Cop
•NYT: Well, he was no angel

Armed white teen murders two people & injured a third
•NYT: He was on a mission & he loved cops!

And that’s how media enables and normalizes white supremacy. https://t.co/w6GcrS6NIX"

11/11/2021 12:29:27 PM

utowncha
All American
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what do you expect from the same liberal media reporting on inflation that doesnt exist

11/11/2021 2:07:35 PM

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