http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/elderly.shootout.ap/index.html

Quote :

" ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- An Atlanta police officer has been sentenced to 4 years and six months in prison for lying to investigators after a drug raid ended in the death of a 92-year-old woman. art.cops.jpg Former Atlanta police officer Arthur Tesler was the only officer to go to trial. Superior Court Judge Michael Johnson also sentenced Arthur Tesler on Thursday to six months of probation. The officer must serve 450 hours of community service. Kathryn Johnston died in a hail of bullets after narcotics officers burst into her northwest Atlanta home on November 21, 2006, using a special no-knock warrant to search for drugs. The 42-year-old Tesler was convicted Tuesday of making false statements. Two other officers have already pleaded guilty and Tesler was the only officer to go to trial."

5/22/2008 2:46:07 PM

So they didn't knock and just started shooting?

5/22/2008 2:47:30 PM

no-knock warrants are only for very higher-danger suspects. like the gangsta dealer that you think has a m16 under his mattress.

^ she must've been sporting some gats or something

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : s]

5/22/2008 2:48:11 PM

maybe they saw pics of her on facebook and had reason to believe she might be packing heat

5/22/2008 2:49:07 PM

they really don't even have to get no-knocks


there is no suppression of evidence for failure to knock and announce

this sounds awful. i may investigate further, thanks for bringing this up.

5/22/2008 2:49:10 PM

oic

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 2:50 PM. Reason : ]

5/22/2008 2:49:56 PM

fuck tha police

5/22/2008 2:50:23 PM

the warrants allow an officer to enter a house without 1) knocking and 2) announcing that they're an officer

as that might give the suspect time to get rid of evidence. these warrants can be issued by a magistrate or federal judge I think. Or the officer can apply for this warrant.

I'm guessing that most of them apply for the warrant because it makes their job easier, etc...
but yeah, in this case, I think the old lady fired a shot in self defense...because undercover officers came in her crib without announcing they were cops. then they blasted her
I remember reading this article a while back, but I'm kind of foggy on the details (I have an anti-elephant memory, haha). I'm looking for it now

5/22/2008 2:57:34 PM

Quote :

"2) announcing that they're an officer"

now thats a HUGE fucking no-no. were I am cop, I would never bust in without screaming police. if I was at home asleep and I heard someone bust down my door, they would be getting shot. the police scream "police" so that exact thing doesnt happen.

if you want to keep them from flushing evidence, then come by when they are not home. or get a swat team to surround and take down the house. they are trained for that kind of thing. normal cops are trained to always be announced (hence the uniforms).

5/22/2008 3:01:53 PM

^^ They are only required to give the suspect enough time to answer the door, reasonably, if they do knock and announce.

they are not required to do so because it has resulted in injury to law enforcement officers in the past. it doesn't take but a couple of seconds to pick up that AK and start firing at the door.

it used to be that failure to knock and announce would result in any evidence collected being fruit of the poisonous tree but the SCOTUS overruled

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 3:02 PM. Reason : asdf]

5/22/2008 3:02:10 PM

Could it not be that there were other people in the apartment and she was just caught in the crossfire?

(board game joke here)

(I know nothing about this case)

5/22/2008 3:02:53 PM

Quote :

"maybe they saw pics of her on facebook and had reason to believe she might be packing heat"

lol

Quote :

"Johnston was fatally shot after she fired at police as they burst into her residence using a "no-knock" warrant. Tesler, stationed at the rear of the house, fired no shots but admitted in court that he participated in a cover-up of the illegal warrant and of the planting of narcotics in the house to hide the wrongdoing."

fucked up. That sentence is way too light.

5/22/2008 3:04:06 PM

Oh, fuck that.

5/22/2008 3:06:40 PM

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html

ok, that's the article. however, there are a few things wrong with it.

1. the police claim that they bought crack cocaine at her residence earlier in that day. that's how they were able to get the warrant.

TRUTH: the officers did not buy crack cocaine there earlier that day

2. the police claim that they were hit by her bullets. they were just firing back to protect themselves

TRUTH: Kathryn Johnston fired 1 shot at the ceiling when they were prying off her burglar bars and breaking down her door. the only injuries sustained by officers were from friendly fire. she was shot 6 times. the police fired 39 rounds.

5/22/2008 3:07:00 PM

So, they are only supposed to issue no knock warrants for high danger suspects, who in turn would be expected to have fairly large quantities of contraban?

1) How would somebody get rid of anything more than a small quantity of drugs in the time it takes police to yell "police" and kick the door in anyway?

2) Are they using this as a guise to target recreational users?

3) If we take them purely at face value on this, is it really wise to think that not announcing that they're LE will somehow make them safer....this article is proof of the contrary.....if a 92 year old granny has the reaction time to break out the heat, which in turn, causes her erroneous death is the practice really that effective?

5/22/2008 3:11:03 PM

^ If that is true, the police definitely got off lightly. Hopefully the family will sue the piss out of the city of Atlanta fro wrongful death.

5/22/2008 3:11:08 PM

this was a justified shooting. There were numerous confirmed reports that she had stolen a PS3.

5/22/2008 3:15:41 PM

Can I, emce?

5/22/2008 3:16:19 PM

^^^^ no no. they dont announce so the suspects dont have time to arm themselves. they do it with murder suspects (the more dangeorus ones anyways), high level gang members charged with multiple violent offenses, and higher level drug suspects due to their nature of being affiliated with weapons and gangs.

like how the swat teams go in, not announcing and all at once. normal cops shouldnt be doing this because a lot of people (especially in bad neighborhoods) are just going to assume that someone is trying to rob or murder them and go to arms like the granny did.

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 3:17 PM. Reason : d]

5/22/2008 3:17:13 PM

Quote :

"no no. they dont announce so the suspects dont have time to arm themselves"

sure worked in this situation, huh?

anyway, that's my point exatly. These kinds of laws are put on the book with an initially good intention, then they start to be abused.

5/22/2008 3:20:47 PM

read the rest of what I posted. shouldnt be used by normal police officers. swat trained officers are prepared for this. police announce so people DONT shoot them.

5/22/2008 3:22:49 PM

sad sad sad

I do think that he should have been locked away for longer

5/22/2008 3:40:23 PM

Quote :

"fuck tha police"

seriously, motherfucker PLANTED drugs in this poor lady's house

Quote :

"TRUTH: Kathryn Johnston fired 1 shot at the ceiling when they were prying off her burglar bars and breaking down her door. the only injuries sustained by officers were from friendly fire. she was shot 6 times. the police fired 39 rounds."

and they're horrible shots, good lord

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 3:45 PM. Reason : .]

5/22/2008 3:44:50 PM

also - if i remember correctly the basis of the no-knock warrant was pretty sketch (unreliable sources etc)

5/22/2008 3:46:08 PM

WHAT THE FUCK

DAT SHOT 6 TIMES OLD LADY

5/22/2008 3:57:17 PM

good job pigs!

[Edited on May 22, 2008 at 4:00 PM. Reason : EX-COP IN JAIL FTW!]

5/22/2008 3:59:29 PM

This motherfucker is boo hooing about not spending time with his kids and he murdered somebody's grandma.

5/22/2008 6:35:06 PM

Quote :

"and of the planting of narcotics in the house to hide the wrongdoing"

"sprinkle a little crack on her, guys"

5/22/2008 6:44:11 PM

jesus christ, if this isn't a breakdown of our fundamental constitutional rights I don't know what is. I guess if they even think I've done something I can plan on getting blasted 39 times and then some shit planted in my house to justify? This is disgusting

5/22/2008 6:44:40 PM

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

check this shit out... a google map pinned with all kinds of heinous shit

wake up! its 1984

5/22/2008 7:55:17 PM

seriously

"If a widespread pattern of [knock-and-announce] violations were shown . . . there would be reason for grave concern."

—Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy, in Hudson v. Michigan, June 15, 2006.

5/22/2008 8:14:04 PM

I think that you mean:

"Your special 'no knock' warrants may lick my balls."

5/22/2008 8:17:03 PM

I lived in the Atlanta area when this happened and watched it covered on the local news

This woman legally owned a gun for defense and when men broke into her home without announcing that they were police officers she rightfully fired on them to defend herself. Apparently she wounded three men before she was killed.

5/22/2008 8:17:14 PM

astounding. she 'wounded' 3 men by firing into the ceiling once. the parts of the ceiling that fell must have landed on the officers' trigger fingers causing them to shoot each other...

5/22/2008 8:19:39 PM

yeah its hard to get clear info on this shit

from a 2006 story:

Quote :

" She shot Officers Gary Smith, 38, Gregg Junnier, 40, and Cary Bond, 38, in the face, chest, arm and leg, prompting them to release a volley of bullets. Ms. Johnston died of a bullet wound in the chest; the officers are expected to recover. Ms. Johnston was initially said by family members to have been 92, but the medical examiner and public records indicate that she was 88."

5/22/2008 8:23:21 PM

just another example of how the media often glorifies police officers for absolutely no reason

the really sad part is that most people read the initial (false) story, and go on believing that this old lady was a drug dealer was was rightfully shot

5/22/2008 8:43:05 PM

where are all the tww cops at? id like to hear their excuses for this behavior.

5/23/2008 7:15:44 AM

why would you expect the tww cops to make excuses? those officers are not them you act like no police have any integrity or somethin

thats stupid

5/23/2008 7:31:15 AM

obviously the lady was up to something... i mean my 90 year old gma doesn't chill on the couch with a gun.... but i still don't trust most police officers especially not young ones. If you boys really really really want to carry guns you intend to use... join the marines. 3 three cops that are acquaintances of mine should have been on the other side of the law a few times... just never got caught.... now they're cops... great....


Not to mention the amped up testosterone out douche who pounded my head on the door sill of his cruiser and made my wrists bleed locking the cuffs down as hard as possible when if any of yall know me I'm about as likely to struggle as a stuffed animal.

5/23/2008 7:51:22 AM

nah, she probably went and grabbed her gun when she heard someone outside trying to break in

5/23/2008 8:00:07 AM

^^^ most cops are honest and only want to help people. its the bad ones that make all the rest look bad. same with any population

^^ you should have hired a lawyer or called and threatened to do so to the captain at their station. nothing may have happened, but you cant just let someone take frustration and anger out on you. if you had hospital bills, the guy would have been chewed out at the very least.

^ yeah, it said somewhere that they were prying her burglar bars off. so it took them a few moments to bust in at least

5/23/2008 9:03:47 AM

Quote :

"if you had hospital bills, the guy would have been chewed out at the very least."

well there's some justice!!1!

5/23/2008 9:05:11 AM

yeah, it sucks, but the circumstances weren't that obvious. if the cop had said he was struggling, then it'd be his word versus the word of a perp. the wounds were from forcing someone into the handcuff position, and tightening the cuffs too tight. both could have been caused by struggling, or argued that at least. therefore, either the captain either believes his man who has served for many years, or an arrested suspect. you can follow the logic.

what did you want to happen? have the guy lose his job? there would be no cops if you got rid of all of the ones that made a mistake. it was a mistake, but he didnt thrash the guy, he was only too rough arresting him. a warning on his record and a verbal chewout is the most that would have happened. but if you complain to supervisors, then at the very least their boss knows that something may have happened and if the cop has a habit of being too rough, it will be noticed sooner and he will be dealt with.

that, and your perception of police as you are being arrested is always a little misguided.

5/23/2008 9:12:16 AM

Quote :

"it will be noticed sooner and he will be dealt with."

likely that won't even happen.

5/23/2008 9:14:29 AM

^ thanks for your input, but yes, it will unless the department is corrupt, which is rare. police get a warning on their record and have to sign a document by internal affairs (sp) if they even mouth off to a suspect. they have to be PC all the time in public or they can be penalized with a permanent mark on their record. just because you didnt get justice in one situation doesnt mean the officer doesnt get scrutinized heavily for everything he does. if most people knew what hell officers have to go through, they'd be a lot more courteous in their encounters and judgments.

5/23/2008 9:18:30 AM

i'd have to politely disagree. i'll say that even with a major complaint it can likely not reach any where.

i'll save you the time from arguing and go ahead and divulge the story that makes me speak this way.

a friend of mine lives in Mass. We were there throwing a party and the cops came. my friends sisters were under aged (18 and 20) so they hid, as did i since i was 20. we sat in a closet in the bedroom. the cop came through and glanced around the house but clearly didn't notice we were in the closet. once everyone was cleared out we hear a big thud. then the cop says "if anyone asks that took place either before arrest or during." they leave. we discuss it with this "oh shit" type of revelation and help bail max out of jail. max does exactly what you said to do, he made a complaint. things that happened, nothing. he tried to follow up with them and see the process and they would have no record of it and he had to retell and go over the story multiple times to people in the department. he eventually called a lawyer where the lawyer said it would be just his word against the cops unless people saw what happened. so nothing got done.

5/23/2008 9:33:45 AM

Quote :

"i mean my 90 year old gma doesn't chill on the couch with a gun...."

she lived in the ghetto mang, yes they do

5/23/2008 9:46:22 AM

blue wall of silence crits you for 9,999. do not pass go. go directly to jail.

5/23/2008 10:05:38 AM

Quote :

""i mean my 90 year old gma doesn't chill on the couch with a gun....""

shit, mine does. most of my family is "country". they got guns all over the damn place. if someone tried to break in, it'd be WW3 up in that bitch.

5/23/2008 10:26:04 AM

^^^^ why did they enter the house? was there a noise complaint? i dont belive they have the right to enter the house unless they can see illegal activity in progress. noise complaints are a ticket, not an arrest. what was he arrested for?

the cops asked everyone BUT max to leave the house? theres a big warning. cops never want to be alone with a suspect. no witnesses to back them up. say no. all they can do is arrest and interrogate you in a cell downtown, where there are plenty of witnesses. what happened to him, did he get punched, pushed down? why? it would be unlikely he could sue them since there were no witnesses, but if there were witnesses during the arrest then they could have testified. and no cops would say what they said if they were going to abuse someone. they would have simply done it and denied it later. too easy to overhear.


annyways. i have no contact with mass. PDs. I am only familiar with RPD, Fayetteville PD, the NC SBI, and a few US Marshalls. there can always be bad PDs and cops. by rule, the bigger the city the better the cops since they tend to be scrutinized more. i dont tend to trust sheriffs overly much since they are politically appointed, but they are usually fine. small town PDs and sheriffs are usually OK if you are courteous and honest, but you can get the small town syndrom and they can be real pricks. Highway Patrol and State Troopers are the marines of police. Their training is INSANE. It really is like being in the marines. They almost always come off as arrogant, or assholes or pricks. But are rarely abusive or corrupt, especially in NC from what Ive seen. Exceptions are the guys who crack-out from the pressure and torture dogs or do something else crazy. But they are rare. Oh, and troopers can be very nice, friendly, helpful, etc, but you will almost ALWAYS get a ticket from them.

5/23/2008 10:37:36 AM