at 1/2 vote each.

5/31/2008 8:47:42 PM

consequences and repurcusions?

5/31/2008 8:50:14 PM

hillary people are mad, mad, mad.

apparently they wanted all the delegates and for obama to have none.

5/31/2008 8:52:57 PM

Hillary needs to stop being such a bitch. They were told what would happen and they chose to disregard the warnings. Her fault for campaigning there. Sucks for her because they're both states she would have won anyway, but they knew what they were doing.

5/31/2008 8:59:06 PM

[Edited on May 31, 2008 at 9:10 PM. Reason : .]

5/31/2008 9:07:43 PM

DNC had to seat them because Florida and Michigan are swing states in the general election. Not good to disenfranchise those voters. Smooth move, Dean.

Still, I wonder how democrats in Florida and Michigan feel about being 1/2 a voter.


Reeks of the Three-Fifths Compromise...

5/31/2008 9:09:30 PM

Reeks of Florida and Michigan being dumbshit mother fuckers for moving their primaries up when if they put them last they still would have had a huge impact on the nomination process. GG FL and MI.

5/31/2008 9:10:57 PM

^^ That

and everyone agreed before hand the that they didn't count, rules are rules.

[Edited on May 31, 2008 at 9:12 PM. Reason : ^]

5/31/2008 9:11:49 PM

Yep, bad move FL and MI. Problem is, the state legislators moved the primaries up, not the democrats, yet the DNC decided to punish the democrats. The GOP didn't.

5/31/2008 9:11:55 PM

So I'm guessing we're going to see the nuclear option in a few days then from the Clintons

:walks downstairs to hide in basement till after fallout:

5/31/2008 9:18:41 PM

She won't quit. She will take this to court.

She can't win anymore. She knows it. But she wins if Obama loses.

5/31/2008 9:39:28 PM

Quote :

"Yep, bad move FL and MI. Problem is, the state legislators moved the primaries up, not the democrats, yet the DNC decided to punish the democrats. The GOP didn't."

Umm...Republicans did exactly that - they punished Florida and Michigan half the delegates - they were just smart enough to do it from the start:

Quote :

"On 8 November 2007, the RNC made a determination that Florida's Tuesday 29 January 2008 caucuses violate Republican Party Rule Number 16. The rule states that the process of selecting National Convention Delegates must not begin before Tuesday 5 February 2008. Florida is sanctioned 50% of their delegation hence, the number of delegates is decreased from 114 to 57. The eliminated positions include the 3 automatic delegates (State Chair, National Committeewoman and National Committeeman). "

Quote :

" On 8 November 2007, the RNC made a determination that Michigan's Tuesday 15 January 2008 caucuses violate Republican Party Rule Number 16. The rule states that the process of selecting National Convention Delegates must not begin before Tuesday 5 February 2008. Michigan is sanctioned 50% of their delegation hence, the number of delegates is decreased from 60 to 30. The eliminated positions include the 3 automatic delegates (State Chair, National Committeewoman and National Committeeman). "

Via thegreenpapers.com

[Edited on May 31, 2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason : spelling]

5/31/2008 10:34:59 PM

consider me reeducated.

5/31/2008 10:42:16 PM

Dear Hilary,

We realize you are only still in the race to recoup some of your own money you spent from your supporters. Bad news is this race was over 2 months ago, probably should have stopped then rather than making people hate you more than they did previously. Thanks!

5/31/2008 11:55:51 PM

if that god damn america thing came out like 2 days before iowa we wouldnt even be in this position

6/1/2008 12:50:46 AM

Quote :

"Umm...Republicans did exactly that - they punished Florida and Michigan half the delegates - they were just smart enough to do it from the start:"

It figures that Republicans wasted no time in disenfranchising voters

6/1/2008 1:18:31 AM

for the record, I've learned that the DNC rule were originally to cut the delegates in half... the Democrats' by-laws are the same as the Republicans'... that states who disobeyed party rules, and moved their primaries ahead of schedule, would have their delegates' votes cut in half.

Republicans', smart as they are, stuck to the letter of their rules, and did just that. cut FL and MI delegates' votes in half. no one complained, mainly because it was all but over by the time they rolled in.

Democrats, stupid as they are, when they realized that FL and MI were going to change their primaries anyhow, tried to up the ante and declared (outside the letter of their own by-laws), that the states would lose ALL of their delegates. Perhaps they thought this would make them get back in line. Apparently, none of the dems in charge of making this threat, at the time, realized the unintended consequences... and now they've had to eat shit when the states called their bluff.

But to try and stick to the threat of removing ALL delegates' votes would have been a legal minefield. Hillary can still (according to Harold "Asshole" Ickes) retain the right to challenge the ruling, but she doesnt have much ground to stand on at this point.

what the DNC did today, was the best possible resolution available to them.

and Hillary's campaign is all-but-officially over. Unless Barack gets run over by a bus, there's just no way she can get the required votes.




[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 1:27 AM. Reason : ]

6/1/2008 1:23:10 AM

Quote :

"no one complained, mainly because it was all but over by the time they rolled in"

are you suggesting by the florida and michigan primary, mccain was clearly going to be the nominee? romney won michigan and guilliani and paul did good in florida

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 1:26 AM. Reason : just being nit picky >.<]

6/1/2008 1:25:48 AM

okay, point taken. I should have said that "no one complained, mainly because it was all over long before the Convention rolled in"

bascially, no one really cares about the RNC. its just a formality.

All the Republicans will care about in Minneapolis is getting PPV porn in the hotel rooms, flirting with teenage bellboys, and hiring some cheap street hookers.

6/1/2008 1:32:05 AM

you know, if you think about it...

at least democrat voters are smart enough to know they are being disenfranchised

6/1/2008 1:37:08 AM

oh yeah and not to mention new hampshire moved their primary (in disregard to the DNC) and received a waiver of their penalty. hooray for white entitlement in getting the first two primaries!

6/1/2008 1:44:55 AM

the way i understand it, they did it according to the process described in the DNC by-laws, whereas MI and FL did it on their own authority without following any of the well-documented and commonly agreed-upon protocols.

6/1/2008 1:47:30 AM

that's not how carl levin tells it. (they had just decided to put -- i believe -- NM after IA this year and then have NH, and NH would have none of that)

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 1:49 AM. Reason : .]

6/1/2008 1:48:53 AM

well i could be wrong.

I mean, that does sound familiar to me, but i thought they (NH) worked with the DNC in an appropriate manner to change it back.

i'd be interested to see a link on this if you could dig any up.



EDIT: not to sound conspiratorial, but isn't Carl Levin a big legal schmeagle in the Clinton camp?




[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 3:49 AM. Reason : ]

6/1/2008 3:44:48 AM

Insane. The original decision was insane, but failing to keep with it -- and thus punishing Obama for following the party's rules, while rewarding that megalomanical whore -- is just disgraceful. It's pitiful what the DNC is and has become.

6/1/2008 6:45:59 AM

gtfo u partisan hack

6/1/2008 6:53:16 AM

I agree that they should have just said the delegations were getting 1/2 from the start, but I'm glad this came to a half-decent resolution. They need to SERIOUSLY re-think the way their primaries are done, however, if they don't want this shit to happen every four or so years.

6/1/2008 7:17:34 AM

Quote :

"Still, I wonder how democrats in Florida and Michigan feel about being 1/2 a voter."

The ones that voted are probably feeling pretty good, as they all went into the primary election knowing that their vote counted as a 0 voter.

The ones that didn't vote because they knew their vote wouldn't be counted anyway are probably kicking themselves, as they would have had a 1/2 vote.

Should have just left it the way it was. The candidates signed off on it. Now all they've done is shown that they won't stick to their own rules when someone (Clinton) raises a stink.

EDIT. Hats off to the Democrats who found a way to lose after the first Bush term in office and have also done what no one could have ever suspected... find a way to lose after the second Bush term. That's quite a feat. Especially considering the current state of things.

Clinton is probably just dividing the party on purpose at this point. It would make it easier for McCain to beat Obama and it would put her in the position of being the Democrats front runner in 2012. She'd be up against McCain with an even worse state of the economy/war to boost her chances. It would be hilarious if Obama ended up winning.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 8:06 AM. Reason : -]

6/1/2008 7:43:29 AM

Hillary is pretty representative of most democrats.

whiny bitch.

6/1/2008 9:09:25 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s

6/1/2008 9:58:01 AM

^^^^ Yeah, hopefully the good thing that comes out of this will be that a better way of handling the primary schedule come up.

Of course, while there are plenty of fair methods for balancing the schedule (tiered penelty/reward schedule, lottery, auction), I'm sure the DNC will fuck the whole thing up worse than it was to begin with (National primary day, regional primaries, etc).

6/1/2008 10:59:33 AM

Corrupt bargain again I say.

6/1/2008 11:13:31 AM

The DNC was in a position where it had to compromise for the sake of maintaining some semblance of unity. This was the only compromise that made sense. What's in between 0 and 1?

Still, if Hillary had any sense at all, she'd never have gone this route. I really don't get what's wrong with her campaign this time around. Bill wasn't fucking up left and right like she is.

It started with pulling a Giuliani and skipping all those "minor" primaries earlier, even though that strategy had just proven itself to be suicide. And now burning up whatever capital she has left with the DNC by pitching a fit about FL and MI even when success would not have really meant victory. What's she angling for? Leverage at the convention? Isn't she pissing that away with the way she's behaving?

6/1/2008 12:14:33 PM

Count down towards public comparisons to Three-Fifths Compromise.

6/1/2008 12:20:46 PM

It's because she thought she was entitled to the nomination, and she fully expected to go down in the history books as the first female US president. Coming from the feminist generation, it was her lifelong dream. Now, she won't accept that she completely blew the opportunity to do something historic -- she failed her generation.

All of the articles coming out about her campaign staff reveal her sense of entitlement: she surrounded herself with her old, loyal friends who were lazy idiots who didn't know dick about presidential campaign strategy and tactics (iow, like bush without a Karl Rove). It's a good thing she lost because it would be terrible to see her run the white house the same way she ran her campaign.

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 12:28 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2008 12:27:06 PM

Really, I can't blame Hillary for what she's doing. This is really the best shot he has for becomming President. If she dropped out in April and Obama won the general, she would not get a good second shot until at least 2016. She'd be almost 70 at the time. And John McCain will tell you what your opponent will say about you when you reach that age.

If she wants to be President, now is her best shot.

And as much as Obama supporters hate it, she isn't breaking any rules. There's nothing in the DNC's by-laws that say Obama should be the nominee at this point. Sorry!!!

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 12:50 PM. Reason : ``]

6/1/2008 12:47:54 PM

A little in-house primary competition has consistently kept the democrats with more media coverage than McCain. And while I support Obama over Hillary I don't mind, nor should anyone in the democratic party, seeing democracy in action even if it goes all the way to the convention. The longer this takes, and the harder it is, the less likely the republicans will be able to use the "he's too new and unvetted to be president." This process has created tons of new registered voters on the democratic side. And It'd be the first convention that I'd ever be really interested in watching the media's coverage of it.

6/1/2008 12:55:51 PM

I think that once the DNC drew the line, it was up to the states to choose to cross it. They knew the consequences and chose their fate. The fact that Clinton [strategically/accidentally] left her name on the ballot and is now returning to that smacks of the political bullshit that has been shoved down our throats for the better half of this decade.

I lost respect for the party in general when I read about the compromise yesterday. The DNC should have stuck to its guns, for ill or will.

6/1/2008 1:55:08 PM

welcome to politics

picture the worst of humanity without the constant ass raping and you have these people

6/1/2008 1:56:10 PM

Quote :

"The fact that Clinton [strategically/accidentally] left her name on the ballot and is now returning to that smacks of the political bullshit that has been shoved down our throats for the better half of this decade."

I think this is a clear understatement of what Clinton did, however. She actively campaigned in those states after the DNC announced their disenfranchisement - after her opponents agreed to stay the hell out of those states. Thus, one of the only reasons she had a significant delegate lead in those states - she was virtually uncontested.

I still fail to see why these states couldn't have just re-run their primaries - proper primaries - and then seated delegates that way.

6/1/2008 2:26:40 PM

Quote :

" I still fail to see why these states couldn't have just re-run their primaries - proper primaries - and then seated delegates that way."

stubbornness and then when that wore off, an inability to organize a fair and thorough vote (including absentee, multiple language ballot, etc) in time and within a limited state dem party budget

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 2:35 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2008 2:34:56 PM

yeah i was about to disagree with ^ until he finally mentioned money

6/1/2008 2:54:58 PM

Quote :

"an inability to organize a fair and thorough vote (including absentee, multiple language ballot, etc) in time and within a limited state dem party budget"

How was a fake vote with what was likely drastically suppressed voter turnout and a general lack of candidate campaigning any more "fair?" Even a hastily assembled last-minute primary would have been better than this.

6/1/2008 2:57:18 PM

``

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 3:43 PM. Reason : ``]

6/1/2008 3:41:17 PM

^^i agree. but that didn't change the fact that they couldn't afford or plan a legitimate vote in the little bit of time they allowed themselves once they realized it would be in their best interest to have a new primary/caucus.

6/1/2008 6:08:55 PM

Fair enough. It just seems like a case of pig-headedness on both sides - if either side was willing to give a little, it seems like the coordination/logistics/financial issues could have been overcome.

Then again, if either side was willing to give, this problem wouldn't have occurred at all in the first place.

6/1/2008 6:55:41 PM

its ultimately the states' fault. they're the ones who refused to follow the rules

but if the DNC hadn't been so stupid as to try and make the punishment more severe, at the last minute, the whole thing would have been as over-and-done-with as it was for the Republican side.

the two states would have had their delegate votes cut in half, and that would have been the end of it.

now that's the exact result we have, but we had to wade through a bunch of shit to get there.

6/1/2008 8:31:28 PM

maybe they didnt want to be seen doing the same thing as republicans

[Edited on June 1, 2008 at 8:41 PM. Reason : because, well, republicans are in the shitter]

6/1/2008 8:41:37 PM

Quote :

"Unless Barack gets run over by a bus, there's just no way she can get the required votes. "

Don't give her any ideas.

6/1/2008 10:48:28 PM

well, it will soon be over...and Obama can run countless commericals with McCain making up figures on the fly and stating them as fact....he does this all the time.

6/2/2008 12:38:26 AM