5

5/23/2009 3:03:34 AM

Quote :

" Kickstand All American 1983 Posts user info edit post It's still a chevrolet. They'll find a way to screw it up by giving it a cheap interior or adding unnecessary features. It's bound to happen. I'd rather wait for a foreign car maker to perfect the technology. 6/7/2008 1:24:10 AM "

A $7,500 rebate miiiight save it, but I wouldn't count on it.

5/23/2009 1:38:55 PM

more like the chevy millivolt amirite?

6/13/2009 7:50:43 PM

Quote :

"Audi President: Chevy Volt Is a “Car for Idiots… the Intellectual Elite Who Want to Show What Enlightened Souls They Are.” Audi of America President Johan de Nysschen dismissed GM’s upcoming plug-in hybrid, the Chevrolet Volt as “a car for idiots.” More specifically, he said that few consumers will be willing to pay $40,000 base price for a car that competes with $25,000 hybrids. “No one is going to pay a $15,000 premium for a car that competes with a (Toyota) Corolla,” he said. “So there are not enough idiots who will buy it.” “They’re for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are,” he said. In addition, he noted, the Volt is not a luxury car whose green-technology costs will be excused because it also delivers prestige or performance. De Nysschen is an advocate of diesel technology: De Nysschen expressed frustration with regulators and policymakers, saying the public has been hoodwinked into believing that E.V.’s are the only answer to global warming. The U.S. government, he said, is pouring billions of dollars into E.V. technology, yet diesel technology could deliver a more immediate and dramatic decrease in global-warming emissions. And the man knows of what he speaks: Modern diesels already power half of Audi’s cars in Europe and have helped Audi dominate recent runnings of the 24 Hours of Le Mans. Diesels have been shown to emit 25 percent less carbon dioxide than gasoline engines, while using 25 to 35 percent less fuel.¹ The Audi of America president ended with a bold prediction: The Volt will fall flat. And the federal government, having publicly forced GM to develop electric cars, will subsidize the Volt to save face and boost sales. In related news, CNET recently reported GM’s astronomical claim of the Volt’s 230 mpg are false, and a more realistic evaluation put the cars fuel economy at 48 mpg. GM has since backed away from the 230 mpg claim."

lol

http://www.cardealerreviews.org/?p=117335

9/4/2009 1:37:30 PM

230mpg (true mpg when you consider the cost of electricity, i mean) might warrant a $40k price tag, though

9/4/2009 2:12:53 PM

This goal of this car from the start has been to be nothing but a distraction from the antiquated shit GM intends to make for the next decade.

Should have called it the Chevy Pacifier.

9/4/2009 2:38:31 PM

^^ Agreed, but:

Quote :

"In related news, CNET recently reported GM’s astronomical claim of the Volt’s 230 mpg are false, and a more realistic evaluation put the cars fuel economy at 48 mpg. GM has since backed away from the 230 mpg claim.""

9/4/2009 2:40:36 PM

^that label is not appropriate for all of their cars. The Cadillac CTS and SRX models are world class. As are the Corvette, and G8. And most Buicks. But yeah the bread and butter models are garbage.

9/4/2009 2:40:51 PM

^^ oh, i caught that...which is why i agree that it's a retarded waste of time and money and think that smc is probably right...i was just saying that 230mpg would give actual value to the $40k pricetag

9/4/2009 2:49:28 PM

If you have a daily commute of less than 40 miles round trip you never need to burn gasoline in that car. So I can see how the 230mpg thing would apply to some driving situations.

9/4/2009 2:53:19 PM

I agree with Audi-guy on the diesel point, but I highly doubt the volt will "fall flat". For one thing, there's already $6000+ in tax credit out there for this kind of vehicle, and thats only going to grow as time passes. Also, Priuses are still marked up all over the place, dipping into the 30s. The dealers often mark up the vehicles, and use the tax credit to convince buyers they're getting a deal. News and Record ran a brief article about whether the new hybrids are worth while $$-wise.

If personal experience is anything, I've encountered a significant number of middle-class people who are absolutely enthralled with the Volt. I know two coworkers who intend on buying one as soon as it's available.

9/4/2009 3:03:36 PM

The thing that I hate about the mpg number is that it distracts from what the value of the metric is supposed to be for. If all vehicles use a single fuel, then it IS logical to simplify all other calculations by simply listing what that fuel consumption is. However, in a time when alternative fuels and energy sources are all the rage, the use of a mpg number to measure progress is ridiculous. The value of the mpg figure to a consumer is the implies value of what it costs to fuel the vehicle in a way that can be stated accurately without having to frequently update vehicle information to reflect the changes in the cost of any particular fuel. The only unit that makes sense for measuring electrics, diesels, e85, cng, hybrids is an analysis of dollars per mile. That metric would still require either a bimodal expression for the volt for the consumer to be accurately informed. The current method of a theoretical median user's drive is useful for most consumers considering an ordinary gasoline vehicle, but where a vehicle has essentially two completely differently powered operating modes with vastly different costs per mile, it's misleading to hand the consumer a single number and then say, "well, you might Actually never burn gas again in your life." the metric needs to be overhauled, not for the sake of the volt, but because the volt merely is the first of many vehicles that show the current method to be ridiculous.

Some might say that cafe is the reason why the volt needs a single number, giving gm the ability to boost it's fleet average high enough so tht it can keep selling the more profitable guzzlers that buyers demand. I say that cafe is idiotic, and for a variety of reasons:
1. If the point of cafe is supposed to force mfrs to regulate their lineup so that consumers have a choice of vehicles whose operating cost and emissions rate allows them to pick a 'clean' vehicle of minimal impact on wallet and environment, why punish the manufacturers when it's the goddamn consumers who refuse to buy the fuel efficient models? It's like requiring mcdonald to sell Brussel sprouts and tofu when nobody is going to mcdonald for that sort of food.
2. Lets say that technology that emerges from now on reveal that th only way to get consumers to buy low-impact vehicles are ones that can only be measure by a bimodal grade. Which seems to be the case where electric propulsion is compared with on-board liquid fuels. If the point of cafe is to encourage the production of the most efficient vehicles, why on earth should their attractiveness be veiled by the methodology that only made sense for vehicles that couldn't measure the emerging technology?! That's like measuring food by only carbohydrates and
not calories, and then placing health metrics on all foods that show health as a percentile performer relative to 'the perfect food', bacon.

9/4/2009 3:29:45 PM

I agree with the guy from Audi


I also dont know anyone that would pay >$25k for a vehicle similar to the Volt. If you want to make an impact, make a small car, make it fuel efficient.. and when subsequent generations follow, dont keep the fuel economy constant and increase the overall size - make the goddamned car the same size and improve the fuel consumption

9/4/2009 3:31:52 PM

Btw, pls excuse the numerous typos in the previous post. I wrote that pretty rapidly on my iPhone.

9/4/2009 3:35:09 PM

you typed all that one the iphone?

9/4/2009 3:46:22 PM

i can type almost as fast on an iphone as i can on a computer. spell check is incredible

[Edited on September 4, 2009 at 4:01 PM. Reason : although that post was a bit of a lot, lol]

9/4/2009 4:00:52 PM

Looks like Audi president from TKE-teg's post above had something in his mind when he was dissing Volt:



3,300 foot-pounds of torque? now this WOULD be an electric that people would pay 40 grand for. Except i can see this one costing way over 40 grand if ever released.

http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/audi-ev-concept-boasts-insane-torque?#


and a pre-production prototype of 2010 electric motorcycle beats 160 mph and wheelies at 80mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAMqIfzBDIs

looks like electric vehicle movement is picking up momentum nicely



[Edited on September 16, 2009 at 6:32 AM. Reason : plz embed]

9/16/2009 6:03:35 AM

I would probably be too lazy to charge my car up at night, sometimes I am too lazy to charge my cell phone now.

9/16/2009 9:09:07 AM

no you park it in the garage charger!

9/16/2009 2:35:39 PM

its gonna fail now

10/15/2009 4:23:16 PM

carz

10/15/2009 4:33:32 PM

ghey

10/16/2009 12:53:52 PM

bttt

2/24/2010 11:07:00 AM

Quote :

"3,300 foot-pounds of torque? now this WOULD be an electric that people would pay 40 grand for. Except i can see this one costing way over 40 grand if ever released."

That's at the wheels you know, which doesn't make it much different than existing high performance vehicles. That vehicle will also cost around $200k.

2/24/2010 1:08:09 PM

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/cadillac-converj-killed/
the Caddy version of what Volt should have been is NOT coming either

3/4/2010 2:01:13 AM

why spend this much for something that gets what a jetta TDI gets? just by a used 03-05 tdi for $10-25k and get the same gas mileage

3/5/2010 12:31:59 AM

Quote :

" by a used "

3/5/2010 12:34:13 AM

I don't think saving money is anyone's main purpose behind buying a Volt. There are bunch of other factors as discussed ealrier ITT. Also, not everyone is a broke college student

Quote :

"why spend this much for something that gets what a jetta TDI gets? just by a used 03-05 tdi for $10-25k and get the same gas mileage"

Comparing apples and oranges here. Also, it is technically
'diesel mileage" and electric mileage

3/5/2010 12:54:08 AM

I don't think saving money is anyone's main purpose behind buying a Volt. There are bunch of other factors as discussed ealrier ITT. Also, not everyone is a broke college student

Quote :

"why spend this much for something that gets what a jetta TDI gets? just by a used 03-05 tdi for $10-25k and get the same gas mileage"

Comparing apples and oranges here. Also, it is technically
'diesel mileage" and electric mileage

3/5/2010 12:54:37 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvwTMZNWGuk

4/19/2010 2:47:39 PM

^I have to admit, they couldn't have came up with a more terrible marketing routine if they tried.. really, WTF GM. Way to ghey up the car even more, it basically a great reflection of what happened with the car styling from concept to production. From futuristic, edgy, and hip it went to craptastic, dull, and hippy. that concept looked bad ass in person, pictures don't do it any justice. With that kind of look it would have sold if it got half the current electric-only range. and the marketing dance would have been by Circue de Soleil probably

4/21/2010 11:40:27 AM

volt crossover concept unveiled

http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/22/autos/chevrolet_volt_mpv5/index.htm?hpt=C2

4/23/2010 1:19:06 AM

http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/27/autos/volt_price/index.htm

Quote :

"The purchase price for a Volt will start at $41,000. The vehicle qualifies for a $7,500 federal tax credit, for an effective price of about $33,500."

7/27/2010 12:51:53 PM

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/inside-line-gm-lied-volt-uses-ice-for-propulsion/

10/11/2010 3:00:40 PM

^they "lied" b/c they were protecting themselves until they secured the patents involved in that.

Either way I don't think it's a big deal.

10/11/2010 4:09:24 PM

They certainly implied that the car would be fully electric, when it turns out that it is a new form of hybrid. It's up for the consumer to decide how angry they allow themselves to get over that.

I personally could not care less, but I can imagine being pretty pissed off if you were looking forward to this being an actual all electric vehicle.

10/11/2010 5:49:36 PM

Motor Trend drove it for 299 miles and got 127 mpg

Even when they drove it hard it returned 75 mpg.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6719595/green/127-mpg-this-volt-story-must-be-told/index.html

Quote :

"The 127 mpg figure was achieved over a variety of Los Angeles city streets, canyon roads and highways. During the trip, the car ran out of battery power and the gasoline engine quietly turned on to give it more juice. Not to the wheels, but to the battery. If the car gets up over 70 miles per hour, then the ICE will send a small amount of power to the wheels, but by doing so it makes the car more efficient. The M/T editors took the car on another trip and really tried to push it hard. They ran the Volt up to its 101 mph top speed, had the A/C cranked and traveled across some hilly terrain. The result? The Chevy returned nearly 75 mpg. MT feels the takeaway from its time with the Volt is that the car is incredibly efficient and the fact that the gasoline engine occasionally pitches in doesn't make it any less remarkable of a vehicle."

So I guess the revolution is here...? Or will be when the price of such a vehicle goes down to $30,000 (without the govt. credit).


[Edited on October 13, 2010 at 8:20 PM. Reason : ]

10/13/2010 8:15:46 PM

Quote :

"I would probably be too lazy to charge my car up at night, sometimes I am too lazy to charge my cell phone now. "

why couldn't they use magnetic induction? yes, i realize it would cost more money...but i can't imagine it would be terribly expensive to have an induction mat that would plug directly into the wall, so then all you'd have to do is park your car over it

10/14/2010 11:11:38 AM

Quote :

"but I can imagine being pretty pissed off if you were looking forward to this being an actual all electric vehicle."

It's been toted as a plugin hybrid since it's creation, so anyone thinking otherwise would just be ignorant imo.

10/14/2010 11:13:34 AM

So they've made an uglier Prius clone, 10 years late.

10/14/2010 11:35:52 AM

^

10/14/2010 4:23:52 PM

^do you guys read anything about this car? Or does technical talk just fly right over your head?

10/14/2010 4:28:19 PM

Quote :

"why couldn't they use magnetic induction? yes, i realize it would cost more money...but i can't imagine it would be terribly expensive to have an induction mat that would plug directly into the wall, so then all you'd have to do is park your car over it"

They could if you didn't mind it taking a few weeks to charge your car.

It takes a good amount of time just to charge my phone and its reception inductor is directly on top of the base station.

Good idea though going forward.

[Edited on October 14, 2010 at 4:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/14/2010 4:32:08 PM

^ ah, i didn't know they were much slower than plugging something in

10/15/2010 9:26:10 AM

CMSJ

10/15/2010 11:18:12 AM

Quote :

"It's been toted as a plugin hybrid since it's creation, so anyone thinking otherwise would just be ignorant imo."

Do you have any sort of source for what you're saying? Because going back to the first post in this thread over 2 years ago and I see phrases like "electric vehicle" and "internal-combustion generator engine powers only the batteries, not the car's wheels" and oddly enough, the word hybrid isn't mentioned anywhere.

I guess at this point, we're just arguing over what constitutes calling something a hybrid. I don't think it was originally billed as one, and now it should be. Either way, I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I'm not sure that calling the people that do care ignorant is exactly fair or truthful.

10/15/2010 3:21:56 PM

Quote :

"They could if you didn't mind it taking a few weeks to charge your car. It takes a good amount of time just to charge my phone and its reception inductor is directly on top of the base station. Good idea though going forward. "

Tesla was able to light up a field of streetlights from 26 miles away a hundred years ago with wireless power. The technology is there, but it's nowhere near as efficient as conductive charging. The whole point of owning a plug-in hybrid is efficiency, so having a charger that is 75% efficient as opposed to 99.9% efficient is a hard sale.

10/15/2010 9:53:38 PM

Here is what would happen in practice.


1) Arrive home
2) Think I should plug this in to charge
3) Think I am gonna go in the house and chill, I will plug it in before bed.
4) Wake up in the morning
5) Think "FUCK" I did not charge my car or my phone up and I am late for work.

10/15/2010 10:05:26 PM

That's okay, you have a lawnmower engine to drive the front wheels.

10/16/2010 1:12:11 AM

I wasnt able to get a lock on selling the price of the car at MSRP when I called earlier in the year to put down a $1000 deposit. I didnt place a deposit. I do, however, think the lease deal of $350 is a deal. With the car saving me about $150 a month in gas, the net cost of a 40k car is going to be $200 a month (would cost $700 a month to buy if you financed all of that).

10/19/2010 3:34:00 PM