I see a lot of people in here saying that other people hate America and I'm just curious exactly what it takes in your eyes for someone to be classified as an America hater.

Aaaand go.

6/12/2008 11:13:05 AM

someone who does not agree with your views. (at least for TWW and TSB)


/thread.

6/12/2008 11:16:34 AM

If you've ever said something like "I'm moving to Europe or Canada," you probably hate America. If you're LiusClues, you probably hate America. Basically, if all you can do is whine about how fat and stupid Americans are, and how this country is evil, and is incapable of doing anything positive, then you hate America.

6/12/2008 11:35:15 AM

so to be an America lover we must praise how fat and stupid Americans are, and how this country is evil, and is incapable of doing anything positive.

got it.

6/12/2008 11:38:46 AM

Hating the Constitution and its Amendments.

6/12/2008 11:51:43 AM

[Edited on June 12, 2008 at 12:03 PM. Reason : .]

6/12/2008 12:03:15 PM

Quote :

"so to be an America lover we must praise how fat and stupid Americans are, and how this country is evil, and is incapable of doing anything positive."

No.

6/12/2008 1:36:52 PM

classified as an America hater = someone who would make the founding fathers roll over in their graves

6/12/2008 1:38:11 PM

does hating on America haters make you an American hater too?
It's like you're disagreeing with free speech?

6/12/2008 1:45:23 PM

I'm just objectively defining a person that hates America. I don't care if you hate America or not.

6/12/2008 2:05:40 PM

I'm still having a little problem with a stated definition that includes only complaining about things. I would contend that any definition within that construct fails to include most America haters if not entirely inaccurate.

6/12/2008 2:10:29 PM

A hater of America is someone who doesn't believe in what we believe in. People who are non-patriotic and don't believe in the traditional values of our country.

6/12/2008 3:08:44 PM

i think the people who truly hate america are the people who are completely oblivious to the problems that exist in the country. and even when they do recognize the problems of the country as a whole, they continue to act in their own self interests.

i think the people who say "x, y and z are wrong with this country and i want to do a, b, c to change it" are the true patriots. going "against the grain" can sometimes be more patriotic than just plowing along doing what you've always done or doing what other people tell you to do.

if you complain that americans are fat and lazy it shows that you actually give a shit about what is going on and that you take pride or WANT to take pride in the country. sometimes those that are most outspoken are those that are most patriotic. i think that is displayed throughout history as well.

6/12/2008 3:31:43 PM

i think it's people who actively try to harm the country and its citizens through violence. at least those are the only america haters that i care about.

there are plenty of people who hate lots of things about america and aren't afraid to voice their hatred. but that is a healthy part of a democracy. harming innocent civilians is not.

6/12/2008 3:39:22 PM

The constitution basically says that if the government has gone corrupt, then it's your patriotic duty to pick up guns and oust the rulers.

6/12/2008 4:31:00 PM

Quote :

"People who are non-patriotic "

I disagree with that.

I love america, but do not consider myself a patriot. If I decided that economic opportunities were better elsewhere, or if our government regressed to a point where my personal and economic freedoms were sufficiently eroded, i'd move before I took up arms against our government.

6/12/2008 5:02:30 PM

Yes, but you would be adhearing to America's traditional values by doing that.

6/12/2008 5:17:01 PM

Someone saying, "I hate America."

Other than that, if you're not allowed to disagree with what our government does that's very worrying.

6/12/2008 7:29:35 PM

i look at "hating America" as basically complaining about everything in this country, while not acknowledging or realizing how good we have it...but maybe part of that definition is just people who just have to have something to whine and complain about

6/12/2008 7:30:24 PM

Quote :

"while not acknowledging or realizing how good we some have it"

6/12/2008 10:07:30 PM

^Give me a break. Do you have a heated and air-conditioned home? Do you have the means to attend one of the world's best universities if you put effort toward it? Are there multiple hospitals withing a few miles of where you live and work, where you can walk in at any time and recieve medical care for any condition? Do you ever go to bed hungry? Do you own a bed that is in your own room? Does your home have multiple rooms? Is your garbage magically taken away by a fleet of trucks, so that it doesn't overflow in the streets? Do you have a toilet hooked up to a municipal sewer system? Do you have free time that you can waste moaning on the internet about how corporate america is ruining your life?

Contemporary Westerners have it better than the vast majority of humans who ever lived on the face of the earth. Quit whining about how life is not fair. So what if you know someone that has more money than you. Does that really give you the right to complain about the pains of your pampered coal-fueled, air conditioned, honey mustard coated, Ipod lifestyle? I'm sick and tired of the $4 latte drinking elitists who rant about how hard things are for the average American. I'll stop here, but I could write pages on how selfish our country is becoming.

6/12/2008 11:42:16 PM

my life is great in all those respects.

Does this make your argument watertight now?

Damn you people just understand everyone in America so God damn WELL! Seriously, I wish I knew so well how everyone in this country lives. Your knowledge must be soooo much greater than mine if I am to judge by the confidence with which you classify Americans. I'm envious of your vast knowledge. Teach me more about how all Americans live. PLEASE!

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 12:02 AM. Reason : ]

6/13/2008 12:01:56 AM

i dont see the poor ghetto dwelling people on TWW arguing how it is, but i see plenty of privileged people who think they have it bad

6/13/2008 12:10:41 AM

Where are the poor ghetto dwelling people going to get a computer

6/13/2008 12:11:29 AM

So your argument is that since person x doesn't have it as bad as others, what person x has is good?

6/13/2008 12:12:27 AM

^^this is my quote that was questioned/changed

Quote :

"i look at "hating America" as basically complaining about everything in this country, while not acknowledging or realizing how good we have it"

since your first post said you see a lot of people "in here" saying that other people hate America, I didn't think we were talking about the entire country, but rather the people in here...my post was in regards to all the people in here who think they have it bad, but don't

^and yeah compared to many other countries, person x does have it good

6/13/2008 12:14:04 AM

Anyone who disagrees with the principles of the constitution hates America. Unfortunately this includes roughly 90% of Americans.

6/13/2008 12:49:38 AM

That doesn't make any sense. That's like saying the people who were against prohibition hated America because it was in the Constitution. Disagreeing with things in the Constitution does not mean you hate America. If anything, it means you're more educated than the average American in that you know what's in the Constitution to begin with, much less have an opinion one way or the other.

There is nothing wrong with being a dissenter.

6/13/2008 3:02:19 AM

Quote :

""while not acknowledging or realizing how good we some have it""

Quote :

"my life is great in all those respects. Does this make your argument watertight now?"

Yeah, I guess my argument is pretty good, seeing as how it forced you to change your position. You live a cushy pampered existence compared to the rest of the world. The fact that you are wasting your day on this site proves it. You can talk all day about how good "they" have it, but that doesn't change the reality of your own situation.

6/13/2008 8:59:31 AM

my and your life > most of the rest of the world

This means nothing you flaming idiot.

6/13/2008 9:19:46 AM

^It does mean something. It means you have little room to complain about how difficult your life is.

Quote :

""while not acknowledging or realizing how good we some have it""

We (you, me, the vast majority of Americans) have it pretty good in this country. Yeah, there are people who have fallen through the cracks. But Americans take things for granted every day. Listen to the number of people complaining every day about traffic congestion. Waaaaaa. It takes too long to get to work. What percentage of the world's people own a car? How many people today died from preventable infectious diseases? How many people today lost a limb after stepping on a land mine? How many people were locked up for disagreeing with their government, or practicing their religion?

Thanks for calling me an idiot, btw. Thats a great way to prove your point.

Quote :

"Damn you people just understand everyone in America so G-- ---n WELL!"

Was that really necessary? Could you be a little more respectful? You're only destroying your own credibility.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 10:05:07 AM

Hating America, to me, is the cancerous mentality that it is acceptable to rape and plunder our natural landscape all in the name of making a dollar thus adding to permissible greed. This ego-centric notion that humans are the only creatures that are worth protecting is equally revolting. If America truly is the super power that it claims to be it surely doesn't promote it through leading the way in sustainable living practices.

6/13/2008 10:25:25 AM

Quote :

"Hating America, to me, is the cancerous mentality that it is acceptable to rape and plunder our natural landscape all in the name of making a dollar thus adding to permissible greed. This ego-centric notion that humans are the only creatures that are worth protecting is equally revolting. If America truly is the super power that it claims to be it surely doesn't promote it through leading the way in sustainable living practices."

Yeah, I agree with that, to an extent. I don't believe humans are animals, as we have a spiritual/ moral component that separates us from them. This is why I think human needs take precedence over environmental ones. At the same time, we have a responsibility to care for the environment so that we don't impoverish future generations by depleting resources. Being the only species with morals is not something we can take lightly.

As far as leading the way in sustainable living, you should hear what Thomas Friedman has to say. He argues that we aren't in the middle of a green revolution, rather we're having a "green party." For example, BP makes feel-good commercials, General Motors has yellow-colored gas caps on its "green" urban assault vehicles. His point is that in order for us to reduce emissions, we will have to make RADICAL changes. At the moment, people are just playing games and running PR campaigns. But no one will really discuss how drastically we would have to change our lives to decrease the size of our footprints.

6/13/2008 10:59:33 AM

Quote :

"Hating America, to me, is the cancerous mentality that it is acceptable to rape and plunder our natural landscape all in the name of making a dollar thus adding to permissible greed."

So, in your opinion, we should all just die cold and hungry. I ask, because your statement by itself leaves no room for compromise.

That is why I prefer liberty, that way your craziness will counteract the craziness of others, resulting in a society that plunders some and preserves some.

6/13/2008 11:07:29 AM

^^ Good 'ol greenwashing at it's best.

^ Thanks for, as usual, exaggerating any point that doesn't perpetuate the worship of money. Typical. And the "plundering" would never be balanced by "preserving" if what you propose were allowed on its own. The proof for this is the amount of disproportionate plundering that takes place even with environmental regulations in place.


[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 11:12 AM. Reason : .]

6/13/2008 11:07:54 AM

Opening a deli and only serving Wonder Bread.

6/13/2008 11:13:17 AM

Quote :

"Opening a deli and only serving Wonder Bread."

Quote :

"The proof for this is the amount of disproportionate plundering that takes place even with environmental regulations in place."

People are pretty selfish. The history of natural resource use is pretty depressing. It just confirms my belief that we (humans) can't save ourselves.

6/13/2008 11:19:44 AM

Quote :

"We (you, me, the vast majority of Americans) have it pretty good in this country. Yeah, there are people who have fallen through the cracks. But Americans take things for granted every day. Listen to the number of people complaining every day about traffic congestion. Waaaaaa. It takes too long to get to work. What percentage of the world's people own a car? How many people today died from preventable infectious diseases? How many people today lost a limb after stepping on a land mine? How many people were locked up for disagreeing with their government, or practicing their religion? Thanks for calling me an idiot, btw. Thats a great way to prove your point."

Do people who complain about inconveniences of (their) middle class American lifestyle really do so in a context of "this is wrong with America"? Let's not give water cooler discussion more credence than what the speaker meant it to have, which is what you're doing.

You know who speaks well on this issue? Barack Obama. Both him and his wife (who I attended a rally of) speak relentlessly of the plight of 'working class' people. And you know what, they don't say it's better now than it's always been. Many people expound on the fact that in the last 2 or 3 decades, the poorest quintile of the country has become more poor.

Is this mindless vanity? Of course not! As much as Fox News reports it, neither Mr. Obama or those who criticize the state of the nation are hating America. Those who "fall through the cracks" are a little more important than a hand-waving, as they make up more of the nation than you may think. Furthermore, we do have an obligation to help those people because we are privileged. So, what are you trying to do by over and over again pushing the fact that we (defined by those posting here and reading this) have it good?

having it good yourself does not make America good.

6/13/2008 1:44:36 PM

when our poor people have it better than poor people in most countries, yes that does mean they have it good since good is relative

and its not saying we shouldnt try to make the country better...but again, the people in TSB who this thread is about are the people who do have it good, and act like they don't

6/13/2008 1:49:43 PM

Quote :

"when our poor people have it better than poor people in most countries"

i'd be curious to see where we fall in this statistic. i would imagine it's not too great among non-third-world counties

6/13/2008 1:53:29 PM

Yes, things should be treated relatively. This is why I disagree with ^^

Most of the 'poor people' in the world are average for their environment. In other words, the vast majority of the world's poor are comprised of people in poor nations, where almost everyone is poor.

Try comparing our poor people to those of the other developed nations, to get specific

Andorra
Faroe Islands
Ireland
Monaco
Spain
Australia
Finland
Israel
the Netherlands
Sweden
Austria
France
Italy
New Zealand
Switzerland
Belgium
Germany
Japan
Norway
Turkey
Bermuda
Greece
Liechtenstein
Portugal
the United Kingdom
Canada
Luxembourg
San Marino the United States
Denmark
Iceland
Malta
South Africa

And the picture is a little different there. Is the criticism really an existentialist complaint that we have poor people, or disappointment that we could (and should as accused) do better?

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 2:01 PM. Reason : ^]

6/13/2008 2:01:00 PM

what criteria do those countries have over the US? I know the US is right near the top in smallest % of people living in poverty, smallest % of people living on < $1 / day, human development index, etc...what is that specific list based on?

6/13/2008 2:03:13 PM

^^I'M SURE THAT LIST IS NOT FROM A BIASED SOURCE.

^HE DIDN'T POST THAT INFORMATION FOR A REASON.

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 2:03 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 13, 2008 at 2:04 PM. Reason : WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA]

6/13/2008 2:03:25 PM

i think he was just listing developed countries. but i could be wrong

6/13/2008 2:13:05 PM

Quote :

"i think he was just listing developed countries. "

Yeah, I know its all developing countries, but he didn't cite a source or mention the criteria used for ranking the countries.

But its all good. He can call me an idiot again from his air-conditioned apartment if it will make him feel better about himself.

6/13/2008 2:26:50 PM

the top group in the hierarchy of developed countries (DCs), former USSR/Eastern Europe (former USSR/EE), and less developed countries (LDCs); includes the market-oriented economies of the mainly democratic nations in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), Bermuda, Israel, South Africa, and the European ministates; also known as the First World, high-income countries, the North, industrial countries; generally have a per capita GDP in excess of $10,000 although four OECD countries and South Africa have figures well under $10,000 and two of the excluded OPEC countries have figures of more than $10,000; the 34 DCs are: Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Bermuda, Canada, Denmark, Faroe Islands, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holy See, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Malta, Monaco, Netherlands, NZ, Norway, Portugal, San Marino, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey, UK, US; note - similar to the new International Monetary Fund (IMF) term "advanced economies" that adds Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan but drops Malta, Mexico, South Africa, and Turkey

6/13/2008 2:44:03 PM

Quote :

"what is that specific list based on?"

We're still waiting for that, and a source.

6/13/2008 2:48:14 PM

That would be the CIA

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/appendix/appendix-b.html

which makes the posting of the list amazingly inconsequential considering I stated "other developed nations". While first/second world may not exist anymore, we do have a powerful vocabulary of groupings of countries. Out of the developed nations, though, the USA is in a very unique place in terms of demographics. Very.

6/13/2008 3:01:55 PM

i looooooooooove AMERICA~~~~~~~~

6/13/2008 4:59:27 PM

Either hating America or just plain unamerican:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/sports/2008/06/13/lavandera.us.wnba.defector.cnn

switching to the Russian Olympic basketball team, lol

6/15/2008 10:45:14 AM