Quote :

"School Board Considers Termination for Teacher who Burned Crosses on Students' Arms MOUNT VERNON, Ohio — Mount Vernon City school board members drafted a resolution on Friday to consider the termination an eighth grade teacher accused of burning a cross onto students' arms. An independent investigation concluded that John Freshwater, a science teacher at Mount Vernon Middle School, also taught creationism in his science class, 10TV News reported. Freshwater, who worked for the school district for 21 years, "improperly used an electrostatic device" to burn images of a cross on students' arms last December, according to the report. "Contrary to Mr. Freshwater's statement that he simply made an 'X,' not a 'cross,' all of the students described the marking as a cross and the pictures provided depict a cross," the report stated. The independent review of Freshwater also included interviews with ninth grade teachers who "expressed frustration and concern" because they had to "re-teach" some concepts to Freshwater's former students, 10TV's Andy Hirsch reported. The report also included questionnaires that ninth grade teachers gave to their students. When asked about their favorite subjects, some students answered, "Evolution because we always had debates about it," and "I liked debating about creation and evolution, because it's always fun to debate." The report concluded, "Mr. Freshwater engaged in teaching of a religious nature, teaching creationish and related theories and calling evolution into question." According to the report, Freshwater also refused to remove a Bible and other religious materials from his classroom. Freshwater called the issues, including allegations he burned crosses into students' arms during class, half-truths, Hirsch reported. He said this is about his sticking up for his first amendment rights. "The original statement I made on April 16 was (about) my personal bible on my desk," Freshwater said. "Why? Because it gives me inspiration and it gets me through the day. That's what it's all about for me." Freshwater said he plans to appeal the school board's decision. accused teacher John Freshwater --http://www.10tv.com/live/content/local/stories/2008/06/20/story_freshwater.html?sid=102 "

we need more good God-fearing SCIENCE TEACHERS like Mister Freshwater



[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 7:50 PM. Reason : ]

6/20/2008 7:40:21 PM

The Christianity is a sideshow.

Who the fuck burns anything into a kids arm?

6/20/2008 7:47:46 PM

Quote :

"The Christianity [aspect of this story] is [just] a sideshow"

No. Not at all. You see, this is the problem with these religious lunatics. they act like its all just a matter of opinion, and cite principles of freedom of speech and the like...

and then they get caught filling our kids' classroom with bibles, hanging religious posters all over the walls, teaching flawed theories about creation, and BURNING CROSSES ON 8TH GRADERS' ARMS WITH A HIGH FREQUENCY ELECTROSTATIC GUN.

Hello, all you batshit crazy Christians! You people have no tolerance and therefore you deserve no tolerance whatsoever. your crazy cultlike behaviors should be viewed as symptoms of pathological sickness, not a constitutional right of expression



[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 7:56 PM. Reason : ]

6/20/2008 7:51:53 PM

Quote :

"You see this is the problem with these religious lunatics."

There are lunatics of all stripes to be sure. I've had my fill of all sorts of zealots, but I don't feel they should be persecuted for their opinion.

Myself? I'm an agnostic, but just as I feel "hate crime" legislation is unconstitutional (the crime is the act, not the motive) I feel that this mans reasons are not legally compelling, his actions are, that is what he should be punished for. Feel free to mock, belittle, whatever his views, but there should be no legal reaction to them.

6/20/2008 7:55:03 PM

^^Did someone's priest touch dem when theys was wittle?


Also

Quote :

"and then they get caught filling our kids' classroom with bibles, hanging religious posters all over the walls, teaching flawed theories about creation, and BURNING CROSSES ON 8TH GRADERS' ARMS WITH A HIGH FREQUENCY ELECTROSTATIC GUN."

HAHAHAHAHAH!

[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 7:55 PM. Reason : ..]

6/20/2008 7:55:33 PM

Quote :

"Did someone's priest touch dem when theys was wittle?"

how clever. think that one up on your own, didja? ha ha ha, indeed.

unfortunately for your theory, i had a normal southern baptist upbringing. you only wish my observations could be explained away by something that simple.

more unfortunately for you and your ilk, the country/world is recognizing the danger that you religious nutcases represent, and that your fellow religious moonbats are far more common than you want to admit.







[Edited on June 20, 2008 at 8:04 PM. Reason : ]

6/20/2008 8:01:00 PM

Quote :

"your fellow religious moonbats are far more common than you want to admit"

Do you have statistics on that or is it just an assumption based on anecdotal evidence and prejudice?

6/20/2008 8:04:06 PM

no, that's pretty much it.

6/20/2008 8:05:09 PM

If you burn a cross on their little hands, they can get back into heaven without paying the cover charge again.

6/21/2008 1:02:17 AM

Why is all the other shit he did even an issue? HE BURNED STUDENTS ON PURPOSE. Isn't that enough to fire him?

6/21/2008 2:20:53 AM

apparently, in Mount Vernon, Ohio, it's enough to "consider" termination.

6/21/2008 3:39:34 AM

^^That was my initial reaction. "Burned students" seems like it ought to be the key issue. I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to do that.

Oh, hey, would you mind not comparing everyone with religious belief with crazy mf'ers like this guy. It makes you sound like "Them damn turrist Moslems hate our freedom!" guy. Unless you are specifically citing crazies, then I guess carry on.

[Edited on June 21, 2008 at 3:41 AM. Reason : you know]

6/21/2008 3:41:33 AM

CONSIDER termination????


lawl

6/21/2008 4:01:50 AM

You know, I'm a substitute teacher in a nearby school system. I'm also fairly religious.

And while I don't really understand burning religious symbols into children, I do occasionally understand wanting to burn them, as well as appealing to religion...namely, to the effect of praying, "Please, God, deliver me from this job where I have to deal with such a pack of shitbags every day."

Just saying.

[Edited on June 21, 2008 at 4:36 AM. Reason : Disclaimer: harming students is bad and anyone who does it should face the gas chamber at least]

6/21/2008 4:35:32 AM

Yeah, I don't really care about the fact that he has a Bible in the classroom or anything like that. If he wants to pray by himself I don't care about that either. But burning crosses onto students? That's way over the line and this guy should never be allowed to teach ever again, possibly not even be allowed to be near children ever again.

Teaching creationism in a science class should be grounds to consider termination, but not necessarily I don't think. He should get a second chance for only doing that. But the burning thing is completely unacceptable and he should be put in jail.

6/21/2008 7:28:47 AM

Quote :

"On April 18, shortly after Freshwater made the debate public, Freshwater told his students they could earn extra credit in his class if they watched the film Expelled, which mocks the theory of evolution. The assignment directed students to “ explain why it is important to examine this objectively and not let bias affect your observations.""

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/06/18/bible_teacher.html?sid=101


http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91DVT200&show_article=1

6/21/2008 11:53:10 AM

^^

yeah, pretty much.

[Edited on June 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason : ^^]

6/21/2008 11:56:45 AM

christians have always loved to burn crosses

6/21/2008 2:12:19 PM

Quote :

"The report concluded, "Mr. Freshwater engaged in teaching of a religious nature, teaching creationish and related theories and calling evolution into question.""

HOW DARE HE QUESTION THE SACRED TEACHINGS OF EVOLUTION!!! HOW DARE HIM!!!
bit it's perfectly OK to question any other sacred teachings. got it.

oh, and fuck this guy for burning students. fire his ass (for real)

6/21/2008 2:30:23 PM

yeah, it would have been even more busted if the students were black.

6/21/2008 2:30:35 PM

"burns crosses on students". Wait. What? There has to be more to this.
His defense wasn't "hey I didn't burn the kids!" it was "it was an X not a Cross."
Doesn't that sound like a odd defense if he was hurting these kids? What else is going on?

6/21/2008 3:54:41 PM

What? I don't care if he's some religious nut... what we need to be worried about is that he's burning students. What a weirdo! And not because of his fundamental beliefs, but because he burned students. If I knew my teacher was burning me, I'd definately turn him in and expect him to be arrested immediately. I don't care if he was teaching evolution, creationism, or mother goose rhymes.

But, since that's not what was happening, I think this is just a media stunt. Apparently, physical abuse isn't as important as the big evolution/creationism debate. They get better ratings by covering the latter. I can see through this stuff like glass.

6/21/2008 4:35:27 PM

Quote :

"normal southern baptist upbringing"

aside from the fact that thats a massive oxymoron, this tidbit of knowledge explains A LOT about joe_schmoe

6/21/2008 6:02:49 PM

6/21/2008 6:07:41 PM

i read this the other day...i guess news desensitizes me but i really didnt care that much...just viewed it as some religious nut pushing his agenda...big whoop

6/21/2008 7:19:38 PM

Nutjob gives other people of faith a bad name... [new]

6/21/2008 7:28:03 PM

Quote :

"The report also included questionnaires that ninth grade teachers gave to their students. When asked about their favorite subjects, some students answered, "Evolution because we always had debates about it," and "I liked debating about creation and evolution, because it's always fun to debate.""

my post is just a carbon copy of burro's, but i wont copy it.

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 10:15 AM. Reason : though this obviously belongs in a different class]

6/22/2008 10:14:22 AM

6/22/2008 1:04:20 PM

yeah. I guess it's not important to mention that most of the scientific research that was done in the middle ages was being done by Christian monks. not important, though, right? The dark ages weren't dark because of Christians, so let's stop acting like it was their fault, ok?

6/22/2008 2:26:52 PM

well, to be more accurate, the progress was being made in the arab world. but who would want to talk about their accomplishments?

6/22/2008 2:35:23 PM

THrow the nutjob in the slammer for 100 years..and im sure after he's done with being Bubba's bitch, he'll wish he had more then a cross to save him!!

6/22/2008 3:24:08 PM

Quote :

"more unfortunately for you and your ilk, the country/world is recognizing the danger that you religious nutcases represent, and that your fellow religious moonbats are far more common than you want to admit."

I agree that the world is beginning to recognize the damage and danger of thought control and using any religious dogma as a tool to control people... and religious fanaticism... but I disagree that they are far too common than we think. I think in recent years, they've come out of the woodwork and our nation's leadership has made conditions propitious for these "moon-bats" - but they will again crawl back under their rocks soon enough.

6/22/2008 3:51:24 PM

thats a very optimistic assessment. i wish i shared your positive outlook

but heres the problem:

you have this particular nutjob who burns crosses on his students' arms (an admittedly unusual incident), and the average fundamentalist nutjob who is part of a large and vocal minority of our population, who has no problem with stocking bibles in classrooms, prominently displaying religious material in public schools, and mocking scientific evolutionary theory in a science curriculum.

i present to you, that the difference between the two is merely a difference of degree.

witness the rally of folks in his community who have come to his defense, saying that he "shares the values of the community"... or that the parents of the burned children who are afraid to publicly identify themselves for "fear of retaliation"

no. I say that the average intolerant Christian fundamentalist is a scourge in our society and deserves none of the tolerance they demand from us on the one hand, but refuse to give us on the other.

6/22/2008 8:21:38 PM

This is the most ridiculous graph I have ever seen.

The so called "dark ages" were only between the fall of the roman empire and about 1000 or so, after that scientific progress resumed.

The technological level in high medieval (12-1300) Europe was in most ways higher than than it was during Roman times, but they didn't have the wealth to build things to the scale of the Romans.

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 8:27 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 8:26:46 PM

its making a general observation, Poindexter, not an accurate quantitative measurement.

good lord, why don't you take exception to the scale of the Y-axis while you're at it







[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 8:34 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 8:33:52 PM

The observation, general or not, is idiotic.

The concept also ignores the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as Byzantium, which did not fall, or lose any of it's scientific prowess, until 1000 years after the Western Empire fell.

They were also Christian.

[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 8:47 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 8:38:58 PM

um, yeah ... okay whatever you say. go start a new thread about it.

Quote :

"here's the problem: you have this particular nutjob who burns crosses on his students' arms (an admittedly unusual incident), and the average fundamentalist nutjob who is part of a large and vocal minority of our population, who has no problem with stocking bibles in classrooms, prominently displaying religious material in public schools, and mocking scientific evolutionary theory in a science curriculum. i present to you, that the difference between the two is merely a difference of degree. witness the rally of folks in his community who have come to his defense, saying that he "shares the values of the community"... or that the parents of the burned children who are afraid to publicly identify themselves for "fear of retaliation" no. I say that the average intolerant Christian fundamentalist is a scourge in our society and deserves none of the tolerance they demand from us on the one hand, but refuse to give us on the other."

6/22/2008 11:04:53 PM

Quote :

"aside from the fact that thats a massive oxymoron, this tidbit of knowledge explains A LOT about joe_schmoe "

I think that most Southern Baptists (at least laymen and even deacons, etc--and a fair percentage of the clergy) are a good bit more reasonable than they are characterized as. They are, on average, more conservative (not just politically, but theologically) than other denominations, but the Bible-thumping uber-Christian completely absurd types are a vocal minority that just sticks out like a sore thumb.

6/22/2008 11:11:37 PM

thats probably an overall pretty fair assessment.

though there are a significant number of Southern Baptists that I would also put in the "moonbat fundamentalist" camp.

6/22/2008 11:25:34 PM

yeah, technically I grew up in a Southern Baptist church (in Boone), in that it was part of the Southern Baptist convention, although it identified itself as simply Baptist. It may have been one of the more progressive So. Baptists churches, because I wasn't aware, really, that Southern Baptists had such a fundamentalist reputation until I got to college, and that reputation was certainly not reflected in the church I attended

6/22/2008 11:38:23 PM

it really does depend on the character of the individual church and their leadership -- the pastor, deacons, and board of directors. my church also was part of the SBC denomination and sent a percentage of the tithes to it, but (from what i can recall) its local efforts stayed out of politics and didnt rule on theological arguments with a heavy hand. although, to be sure, some members were more fundamentalist than others.

Conversely, I've been to some Southern Baptist churches -- and my parents currently go to one now -- that are pretty much off the deep end. they're very involved politically, to the point of recommending who you vote for, and very much involved in enforcing conservative theological doctrine in whatever way they can. prayer in schools, creationism debate, protesting planned parenthood, etc.

I believe this sort of political activism is on the increase. the SBC leadership at the national level has become much more politically active since i was a kid. individual churches have shifted likewise.

some churches, previously aligned with teh SBC, have rebelled against this trend. many have distanced themselves from SBC even as far as changing denominations to "independent" or the more liberal American Baptist Convention.

the whole point remains though, that the fundamentalists -- even though they are the minority -- are driving the religious debate in this country at the local and national levels.

and these people are dangerous. They're the Gary Birdsongs and the John Freshwaters, and they're the millions of likeminded fundamentalists who support them, explicitly or implicitly in the name of "tolerance"



[Edited on June 22, 2008 at 11:53 PM. Reason : ]

6/22/2008 11:46:01 PM

I present 3 religious truths:

Jews do not recognize Jesus Christ as lord
Protestants do not recognize the pope as an authority
Southern Baptists do not recognize each other at the strip club

6/23/2008 12:02:10 AM

Um. . .maybe you didn't realize this, schmoe, but Obama's a Christian. Have you see his flier?



BTW, you are the only one here who sounds like a "batshit crazy lunatic":

Quote :

"You see, this is the problem with these religious lunatics."

Quote :

"Hello, all you batshit crazy Christians! You people have no tolerance and therefore you deserve no tolerance whatsoever. your crazy cultlike behaviors should be viewed as symptoms of pathological sickness, not a constitutional right of expression"

6/23/2008 6:17:40 AM

Quote :

"to the point of recommending who you vote for"

these churches should be reported to someone..... the IRS, maybe? who is supposed to handle shit like that?

6/23/2008 7:23:05 AM

I don't see any problem with a church recommending that you vote for someone, considering how many other places that tell you who to vote for. Intrest groups, clubs and organizations you belong to, hell even your own government officials (senators, governor) tell you who to vote for.

Why should the church you belong to be any different.

6/23/2008 9:18:10 AM

hooksaw, don't be such a tard.

you know (or should know) the distinction between normal, mainstream christian - and moonbat fundamentalist.

6/23/2008 9:32:38 AM

This is TSB, we only deal with extremes.

6/23/2008 9:38:01 AM

^^^ because churches are legally tax-exempt organizations. One of the consequences of their particular tax-exempt status is that they are not allowed to actively participate in political campaigns, which includes voting recommendations.

This is obviously a loosely-enforced law, and churches attempt to get around it in many ways as well, such as distributing "voting issues guides", which will describe the candidate's stances on topics, with the church-supported candidate written up much more favorably. But explicitly endorsing a candidate is strictly forbidden by the law.

http://atheism.about.com/od/churchestaxexemptions/Tax_Exempt_Churches_Religious_Freedom_vs_Tax_Exemptions.htm
http://atheism.about.com/od/churchestaxexemptions/a/campaigning.htm

6/23/2008 9:57:21 AM

http://www.naacp.org/legal/news/2006-08-31/index.htm

If they didn't do anything to the NAACP, I doubt they would do anything to these churches. Even the most politically active church is mild in comparison.

6/23/2008 10:15:54 AM

Something tells me this "burn" is more like a suntan and the students probably didn't feel any pain. But let's go with burn because it sounds so sensational.

6/23/2008 12:10:22 PM