http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/us/politics/24muslim.html?bl&ex=1214452800&en=2188136bb97e5775&ei=5087%0A

Quote :

"But before the rally could take place, aides to Mr. Obama asked Mr. Ellison to cancel the trip because it might stir controversy. Another aide appeared at Mr. Ellison’s Washington office to explain. “I will never forget the quote,” Mr. Ellison said, leaning forward in his chair as he recalled the aide’s words. “He said, ‘We have a very tightly wrapped message.’ ” "

I can only see this helping Obama if it gets reported more. I think people will be relieved to know that he's not actually a sekrit muslim like many conservatives suspect.

6/25/2008 11:45:09 AM

Muslim population in Michigan is huge though. He keeps doing this, he could lose a swing state that he's depending on.

6/25/2008 11:56:34 AM

^ (don't let anyone know, but Muslims aren't going to actually vote for McCain)

6/25/2008 11:58:02 AM

anyone who is not an idiot knows hes not snubbing muslums...i dont see this helping or hurting him...hes still same old barack to me

6/25/2008 11:59:10 AM

ah, taking voter blocs for granted. Always a winning strategy.

6/25/2008 11:59:30 AM

And Republicans aren't going to vote for Obama, so I don't see how this is going to do anything but piss off and/or alienate his base

6/25/2008 12:00:17 PM

^^its basically whites versus somewhites and everyone else in this election imo

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 12:00 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2008 12:00:40 PM

Quote :

"hes still same old barack to me"

and that is how the rest of his enthusiastic but politically shallow supporters will continue to view him.

6/25/2008 12:03:25 PM

dont fuckin lump me in some group like you know me

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 12:06 PM. Reason : you have seriously been a dick lately, earlier today in the thread you made in chit chat, and over the past few days

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 12:07 PM. Reason : dick]

6/25/2008 12:05:09 PM

meh, I didn't intend to lump you in with that group actually. Not all Obama supporters are politically shallow, but the hyper-energetic base that he has garnered generally is.

And I am a dick, what do you expect?

6/25/2008 12:08:23 PM

lol i agree...when you said "the rest" i was like woah wait a minute...shit i'm probably gonna end up voting for mccain just cause of iraq(assuming iraq doesnt go to total shit between now and the election)

6/25/2008 12:10:08 PM

this whole thing kinda pisses me off. i hope it's not a sign that the same old folks who were pulling the levers behind kerry and gore's campaigns have gotten their hands into obama's.

^attacks in eastern iraq have gone up 40% in the last year. so, it's not all good news there.

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 12:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/25/2008 12:43:42 PM

DNL just pick a side and stay on it man

6/25/2008 1:27:12 PM

Good.
Good.

6/25/2008 1:35:45 PM

^lol

Quote :

"“The joke within the national Muslim organizations,” Ms. Ghori said, “is that we should endorse the person we don’t want to win.”"

Pretty much. A Muslim endorsement will likely cost more votes than it earns.

6/25/2008 1:43:20 PM

Quote :

"^ (don't let anyone know, but Muslims aren't going to actually vote for McCain)"

Republican values and ideals seem much closer to Islam than Democratic ones.

6/25/2008 2:11:01 PM

Did some posts get pruned from this thread or something?

6/25/2008 8:13:46 PM

If muslims want recognition and respect from mainstream society maybe they should try not being violent, irrational and crazy. Just a thought.

Then again, mainstream society is violent, irrational and crazy in its own way. So becoming reasonable would probably lead to even more alienation for muslims.

I guess unless they want to go from medieval, foaming-at-the-mouth, religious zealots to flag-waving, warmongering, neocon imperialists (not likely), or bleeding-hearted, secular, tax us into the poorhouse liberal moonbats (also not likely) they're shit out of luck.

[Edited on June 25, 2008 at 9:36 PM. Reason : ']

6/25/2008 9:30:50 PM

Quote :

"If muslims want recognition and respect from mainstream society maybe they should try not being violent, irrational and crazy. Just a thought."

Do you really think this is a problem with the average muslim? Any moreso than with christians, americans, or white people in general?

The world is fucked everywhere, it's just focused on Islamic violence at the moment because their populations happen to be focused in the areas where our wallets are focused.

6/25/2008 9:33:23 PM

Terrorism aside (not a trivial aside either, I might add) these people are backwards, repressive, throwbacks to the dark ages.

Theirs is a completely irrational, barbaric and frankly quite horrific "civilization", which I only give the honor of sarcastically being called that because I happen to come from one that is almost as bad.

6/25/2008 9:40:25 PM

^ the muslims were making the most progress back in the dark ages.

But, you can't lump all muslims in to the category of "backwards and repressive" it's only certain sects that are crazy like you hear about.

6/25/2008 9:45:15 PM

Quote :

"Do you really think this is a problem with the average muslim? Any moreso than with christians, americans, or white people in general?"

Yes, at least as far as the collective societies which are self-proclaimed as "Muslim" in nature.

Western society, while not perfect, is not a tribally based, mystically driven, fatalistic society. Sure, we have our holdouts, but on the whole, we are the most rationally driven society on the face of the earth. And lets be honest, that has its pluses and minuses, but there aren't many societies who would treat Germany or Japan the way we did after WWII with the Marshall plan and the rebuilding of Japan with the express intent that they become self governing.

Is this administration and its policies jacked? Yes. Does that condemn Western Culture as a whole. No.

6/25/2008 9:49:43 PM

Any women who is wearing a headscarf would be one of the crazy ones.

Muslim views on gender are completely indefensible, hypocritical and putrid, and that's just the mainstream. The crazies are worse. There are so many things about arab-islamic culture that are so wrong its hard to know where to begin. I suggest you go to one of our public libraries, grab a random book on Islam, written by a muslim and not some multi-cultural western apologist, and prepare to be appalled. They simply can't stop themselves from showing just how repugnant their beliefs really are.

6/25/2008 9:54:08 PM

Quote :

"Western society, while not perfect, is not a tribally based, mystically driven, fatalistic society. Sure, we have our holdouts, but on the whole, we are the most rationally driven society on the face of the earth. And lets be honest, that has its pluses and minuses, but there aren't many societies who would treat Germany or Japan the way we did after WWII with the Marshall plan and the rebuilding of Japan with the express intent that they become self governing. "

I would say "western society" in general this is true, but American society is one of the least rational (if not THE least rational) of the western societies. Just look how many of us reject evolution vs. other countries. And the ridiculous consumption levels of our society vs. other western societies. Unsustainability is not rational.

Quote :

"Any women who is wearing a headscarf would be one of the crazy ones. "

How so? There are different kinds of headscarfs and ways of wearing them. The full face veil stuff is nuts for an American muslim to don though.

Quote :

"Muslim views on gender are completely indefensible, hypocritical and putrid, and that's just the mainstream. The crazies are worse. There are so many things about arab-islamic culture that are so wrong its hard to know where to begin. I suggest you go to one of our public libraries, grab a random book on Islam, written by a muslim and not some multi-cultural western apologist, and prepare to be appalled. They simply can't stop themselves from showing just how repugnant their beliefs really are."

I don't think YOU know what muslims believe. Even the "reasonable" ones have strange rules, but you can't objectively call them putrid and wrong. Our current society, here in the US, has rules that someone who looks back on us 50 years from now will think are backwards and indefensible. You can look back at the US 50 years ago and find many egregious rules we had, but that's because society was different then, and any society different than your own will seem wrong.

6/25/2008 10:38:45 PM

As hard as it is for him to fight the urge, Obama must not flit too close to the porch-light of America-hating muslim extremists.

(I picked this one up at "Analogies R Us")

6/25/2008 11:15:32 PM

Quote :

"How so? There are different kinds of headscarfs and ways of wearing them."

It's not the scarf, per se, but why it is worn that is repulsive.

It is worn because muslim men say that they can't control themselves if women don't conceal and disguise any signs of their sexuality. It is worn so that muslim men don't have to take any responsibility for their own thoughts and their own actions. It is worn so that sex can be held in abhorance and all blame for it can be passed off on women. It is the embodyment of a perverse double standard. It is hypocrisy distilled.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lq5yMS5wKw

Quote :

"Even the "reasonable" ones have strange rules, but you can't objectively call them putrid and wrong."

If the rules have no objective basis whatsoever, but are merely the superstitious tribal customs of backwards nomads, then they are objectively wrong (except insofar as they might occassionaly get something right by accident). Furthermore, in muslim lands, these petty and arbitrary rules are enforced under penalty of severe and horrific punishments meted out to people innocent of any true wrongdoing. This goes beyond being objectively wrong to being objectively evil.

Quote :

"Our current society, here in the US, has rules that someone who looks back on us 50 years from now will think are backwards and indefensible."

Correct sir. You will find no defense of mainstream American mores from me.

Quote :

"but that's because society was different then, and any society different than your own will seem wrong."

No, it's because all societies still have a long way to go before any of them can be called objectively sane. That doesn't mean no objective standards exist.

6/26/2008 4:58:43 AM

Quote :

"You will find no defense of mainstream American mores from me. "

OMG THERE'S A FUCKING SHOCK

MEGALOMAN DOESN'T LIKE AMERICAN MORES

INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PUBLICLY-FUNDED ROADS AND ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS

(In case you were wondering, Megaloman, I'm considering the possibility of not seriously addressing you at all. Primarily because nobody else in the entire goddamn world takes you seriously. I may yet change my mind, but for now, this works)

6/26/2008 6:11:19 AM

Quote :

"As hard as it is for him to fight the urge, Obama must not flit too close to the porch-light of America-hating muslim extremists."

Haha, wow, you are getting nuttier as this election goes on.

6/26/2008 11:29:32 AM