per Obama himself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gexyfVpFMU


"some people might be comfortable doing that, but, im not one of those people."

7/7/2008 10:43:39 PM

Just lock this shit.

Can we have 2 threads for this election. One where we bash Obama with all the tripe bullshit we can find, and the other for McCain?

I don't want to click on these fucking threads and see some bullshit youtube clip from 2004 with zero commentary in the first post - for either candidate. Get a damn life.

7/7/2008 10:51:48 PM

It was only about two years ago, during a meeting with reporters at his Illinois campaign headquarters after his election to the U.S. Senate, that he ridiculed as “a silly question” whether he would run for president or vice president before his term ends in 2011. “I’ve never worked in Washington,” he said. “I can unequivocally say I will not be running for national office in four years, and my entire focus is making sure that I’m the best possible senator on behalf of the people of Illinois.”

As he told NBC’s Tim Russert on “Meet the Press” after his election in 2004, “I don’t know where the restrooms are in the Senate.”


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0207/2694.html


Just using the man's own words and statements.... which he sure changes alot huh. Little touchy tonight tracks.

[Edited on July 7, 2008 at 10:58 PM. Reason : .]

7/7/2008 10:57:44 PM

Humility is a virtue though. Bush definitely could learn some, and McCain should go back to his pre-07 levels.

7/7/2008 11:05:36 PM

MR. RUSSERT: When we talked back in November of ‘04, after your election, I said, “There’s been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your full six-year term as a United States senator from Illinois?” Obama: “Absolutely.”

SEN. OBAMA: I will serve out my full six-year term. You know, Tim, if you get asked enough, sooner or later you get weary and you start looking for new ways of saying things, but my thinking has not changed.

MR. RUSSERT: But, but—so you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?

SEN. OBAMA: I will not.



I find this SO funny. Sure the man can change his mind, but its just funny seeing the differences on him being "ready" and changing his tune....again.

7/7/2008 11:10:52 PM

Jesus Christ this is lame, even for current TSB standards.

7/7/2008 11:18:16 PM

This definitely doesn't deserve it's own thread.

7/8/2008 12:10:30 AM

Whatever.

Obama's the choice of a new generation(TM).

Pass me that hope, plz.

7/8/2008 2:46:39 AM

If this is to be taken literally, so is McCain's statement that we should be in Iraq for 100 years and his song 'Bomb Iran' should also be taken literally, also eyedrb - you're being a tool when you post crap like this. I used to think you had the ability to have honest debate, I know believe that you completely lack the functions to do so.

7/8/2008 8:20:15 AM

^how so monky? Ive always thought he didnt have the experience to approach the office of president.. it was nice hearing him say it.

7/8/2008 8:54:23 AM

So you're just trying to vindicate your beliefs instead of actually debating? In that case, I suggest you go masturbate in chit chat, it will befit your mental masturbation much better than here, which is supposed to be used for debate.

7/8/2008 8:56:38 AM

what is there to debate? The man has done NOTHING. He is a do nothing senator that speaks well and has charisma. If you believe he will do half the shit he says, then he will bankrupt our country. I guess that is ok with most of you who let your emotions guide your decisions instead of looking with reason.

I was happy to see that even obama admits he wouldnt have enough experience to make an 08 run.... It just illustrates 1) that he is a typical politician and 2) obama supporters will believe/defend ANYTHING he does. imo

7/8/2008 9:03:35 AM

Quote :

"The man has done NOTHING. "

This is strictly your opinion and it is very lacking. The man has pages upon pages of policy positions and proposals for you to read over.

Quote :

"If you believe he will do half the shit he says, then he will bankrupt our country."

I thought he had nothing? If he has nothing then there should be nothing that will bankrupt our country. Oh wait, you're full of shit.

Quote :

"I guess that is ok with most of you who let your emotions guide your decisions instead of looking with reason."

Now who is being elitist and out of touch? Hint: you.

Quote :

" I was happy to see that even obama admits he wouldnt have enough experience to make an 08 run"

Are you pretending that all politicians don't deny running for an office before they announce?


You seem confused and hateful eyedrb. Obama either has nothing or something. Whether you like his 'something' or not is your opinion, but don't pretend it will be the downfall of our country, liberals believed that about Bush and it didn't come true. Sure, things could have been better, but the sky is not falling chicken little.

7/8/2008 9:12:13 AM

Quote :

"The man has done NOTHING."

1. Columbia, Harvard magna cum laude
2. President of Harvard Law Review
3. community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[10][12] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000
4. taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004).
5. served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995–2002.
6. State legislator, 1997–2004 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama
7. 2005- US Senator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_United_States_Senate

Compare that to McCain's resume for the past 25 years:

1. Senator


I imagine that when experience is concerned, the law of diminishing returns hits awfully hard after your first decade or so of being a senator.

7/8/2008 9:31:53 AM

jesus kid. I guess I had to capitalize the other word.

"the man has DONE nothing".

got it. This is much different than talking about what his plans are(in the future). You can call me full of shit, etc, but then you have no claim to whine about not debating anything and calling me hateful.

I guess I can give him credit for having a good website and great ad campaign. So that is something. Now we can debate if that is good enough to deserve the most powerful position in the world. I think not, you dont seem to.

Let me put this pretty plainly why I think it would ruin this country. We are approaching a point where we will have more people on the govt take than paying in. This will be the tipping point for the end of a democracy. If you think the iraq war is bleeding this country to death, you are focused on the paint scratch on the side of the titanic, not the gapping hole that is sinking it. Yes its alot of money, but not nearly as much as we spend on entitlements. Also, the majority of spending for Iraq will end in the near future... not grow rapidly. ADDING the biggest entitlement is not answer. We need to be cutting spending, not massively increasing it. The scary truth is we cant afford the current promises of our current entitlements. The politicians know it, but are trying to get elected and the general electorate is to numb to care or want to be bothered with truths.

Increasing the size of our disfunctional govt will do nothing but cause more problems. It has failed us time and time again... yet they propose giving them more control and people eat it up.. Why, bc its less work for them. Its really a sad place BOTH parties are taking us.


Boone, lawyer, lecturer, community organizer, state senator... wow.(i just passed out)

I dont like mccain but his service to his country and being a war hero is kinda a big deal you left out.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 9:36 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 9:32:48 AM

but I thought "the man has done NOTHING."

so you're conceding the point?


And what I'm saying is that if you're going to calibrate the "nothing" scale to Obama, then McCain hasn't done a whole heck of a lot, either. Especially if you're looking at anything in the past couple decades.

7/8/2008 9:43:33 AM

There are thousands and thousands of active troops in the military right now. They have military experience, maybe they should all be president? Oh wait, no, because military service IS NOT A QUALIFICATION TO BE PRESIDENT.

7/8/2008 9:44:16 AM

No, but all those thousands of brave young men and women are on step 1 of a 2 step journey to be qualified.

1. Be in military
2. Be a career politician for 25 years.

then they'll be so stupendously qualified that any whipper snapper with less than 20 years as a career politician with have done "NOTHING" in comparison.


It's odd, though. The GOP didn't seem to care much about that kind of qualification in 2004.


[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 9:48 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 9:47:01 AM

not at all boone. Where is there great acheivement?

I dislike mccain, I disagree with many of his views, but he did service his country, is a war hero, and, dispite my objections, has passed several bills and worked with the other party.

Actionpants, by your logic how many lawyers do we think should be president? Being a lawyer seems to be a HUGE advantage to get into office as it is.


Do you three disagree with my point about entitlements and spending? Or do you just not want to talk about it.

Boone, you forget that Bush and Kerry both served in the military.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 9:51 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 9:50:37 AM

Military experience is important because the military is the most wasteful, inane bureaucracy in all of the united states. So, lots of military experience will allow you to feel at home when working in washington DC.

7/8/2008 9:52:29 AM

yet it provides us protection and leads to new technologies, provides jobs and leadership. That money would be better spent on buying votes and creating a subclass totally dependent on the govt. Ah the utopia

7/8/2008 9:55:02 AM

Lawyers by definition know the law, so in general I feel much better having them be politicians than I do having soldiers in that role.

And I think that in a time where the economy is all but stopped and the dollar isn't worth a shit, we would be unwise to elect a man whose biggest economic proposals include keeping taxes down on the richest part of the population, implementing a gas tax holiday which will ultimately do nothing but drive up oil consumption with no real benefit to consumers, and promising to balance the budget with the savings from "winning the war in Iraq and Afghanistan," when by his logic, winning the war means we can stay there indefinitely, just with minimal loss of life. Obama can at least cover the new spending in his budget. McCain can't cover the current spending with his, unless he just scraps Medicare, Social Security, and half of our military spending.

7/8/2008 9:56:54 AM

Quote :

"but he did service his country, is a war hero, and, dispite my objections, has passed several bills and worked with the other party."

Wait, Kerry or McCain? I've forgotten what election year I'm in.

Quote :

"Where is there great acheivement?"

Crap, really? The kid grew up with in a single mother household and became the first black president of the harvard law review. Then he was a successful community organizer. Then he taught constitutional law at a damn fine law school. Then he was a very good state senator. And I'm leaving stuff out.

Are you really so blind that you refuse to acknowledge that all these achievements might actually register on the achievement-o-meter?

7/8/2008 9:58:03 AM

Quote :

"yet it provides us protection and leads to new technologies, provides jobs and leadership"

Quote :

"Ah the utopia"

Followed by a strawman, simply amazing.

7/8/2008 10:04:37 AM

Ya'll people need to wake up haha. Why don't ya'll go back and watch some more Chapel show reruns.

7/8/2008 10:07:56 AM

McCain himself said that military experience was not relevant back in 04 when Kerry was running too. I guess he's a flip flopper now right?

7/8/2008 10:09:19 AM

Ah yes the old "Ya'll people need to wake up haha" argument

Well played my friend

7/8/2008 10:09:59 AM

^ what time does Chapel's show and The Daily Show come on today? hahaha

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:11 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 10:10:15 AM

You missed a ^

7/8/2008 10:10:49 AM

Ya'll just don't KNOW, maaannn.

Ya'll need to go do the activities you're known to do.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:12 AM. Reason : ,]

7/8/2008 10:11:42 AM

I don't know what Chapel's show is

Is that a Chapel Hill joke or something

7/8/2008 10:13:47 AM

Obama can NOT cover his new spending with increases in taxes. Increasing the tax on the "rich" alone would raise an additional 40B a year. Far short of the 270B in increased spending, and that iis really lowballing the healthcare. Use your head action. Hell even obama voted against funding his proposals. Ill let you in on another reality, none of them can afford to continue with medicare and social security long term. Adding another isnt even an option. The fact that it is proposed insults our intelligence.

You actually used balancing the budget as a bad thing? Keeping taxes down on the rich? WTF are you talking about. Who got a bigger tax break? percentage wise with the bush tax cuts? Honestly, why is it that you feel you should tax someone successful? Is it jealously or greed? Ive never understood this liberal idea.

Boone,

Quote :

"The kid grew up with in a single mother household "

OMG, so did I. Im happy that in a country so evil he could succeed. But I still dont think being raised by a single mom should be a qualification used to justify a presidential bid.

A friend of mine once said that talking bad about obama is like stepping on an ant hill. I now know what he meant. LOL

7/8/2008 10:15:26 AM

Hey, you actually touched on a tiny part of my argument. Keep going-- try for the whole argument next time. Maybe the ants would leave you alone if you'd actually address their arguments.

I'm trying to decipher the set of prerequisite achievements for President that would allow Bush but deny Obama.

I'm thinking "being a Republican" is the primary requirement, in your eyes.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:26 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 10:25:19 AM

McCain can't balance the budget. There's no way. From http://tinyurl.com/5bou7l

Quote :

"Mr. McCain’s plan would appear to result in the biggest jump in the deficit, independent analyses based on Congressional Budget Office figures suggest. A calculation done by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center in Washington found that his tax and budget plans, if enacted as proposed, would add at least $5.7 trillion to the national debt over the next decade."

If he really plans on balancing the budget by saving money in Iraq and Afghanistan, I'd like to know how he's going to do save all that money without leaving.

We need to raise the taxes so we can get pay this debt off instead of adding to it. Look, I'll admit Obama will almost certainly spend more than he's claiming now, but McCain's plan is every bit as naive and irresponsible as you claim his to be. At least with Obama we'd be getting something out of the deal.

And here's the tax breakdown: http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/index.htm?postversion=2008061115

Do you make $227K-$603K right now? If so, get ready to pay an extra 12 dollars a year! If you're making $2.9 million or more, I have a hard time feeling bad for you. I'm sure those taxes will just drive you right down in to poverty and you'll be no better off than common gutter trash.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:32 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 10:29:13 AM

tres interessant!

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:44 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 10:31:30 AM

boone, ive tried to address your arguement. will you address mine.

The biggest difference between bush and obama was executive experience, not party line. Although obama is a huge shift towards socialism govt first programs.
Is obama more likeable than mccain? you bet your ass. I would rather have obama over for dinner than mccain any day of the week. I just strongly disagree with where he wants to take this country and am amazed at how emotional his followers get.


Action, actually lowering the coorporate tax rate is a great idea. Ending it would be a better one. I appreciate the link and your opinion action. My objection is a moral one. You or I dont have a right to expect someone else to pay more than thier fair share. Our govt should tax its citizens equally. Our tax system isnt just and allows the idea to grow that you dont have to do your part.. penalize someone else. I dont know how this attitude has allowed to spread. Politicans use our tax code to buy votes. Penalizing one group while rewarding others... its unconstitutional and unfair. imo

Quote :

"Look, I'll admit Obama will almost certainly spend more than he's claiming now"

Thank you action. I have a new respect for you. It seems like many of his supporters are unable to accept any critizism or apply any rational toward obama. This is a relief to me.

However,

Quote :

"At least with Obama we'd be getting something out of the deal. "

This is just the type of attitude these shit programs breed. This makes americans more selfish and less independent. Its the attitude "whats in it for me" the hell with where its comign from or who gets penalized, as long as i get mine.

7/8/2008 10:44:17 AM

Quote :

"The biggest difference between bush and obama was executive experience"

He failed at business, then he was the governor of Texas for 5 yeas. Not all that compelling. Certainly not significantly better than Obama.

Quote :

"Although obama is a huge shift towards socialism govt first programs."

This is the fundamental flaw in your argument. You keep bringing policy into a discussion over experience. All I want is for you to explain what scale you're using that measures Obama as having "done nothing," but that qualifies Bush and McCain to be president.

7/8/2008 10:51:55 AM

^^I'm not a big supporter of our welfare system, if that's what you mean, and it's not all about "getting mine." If anything, I thought "Fuck you, I got mine" was the Libertarian credo. I just want to see a greater investment in infrastructure, energy, and education, which people can't really make happen independently, and which can't happen without diverting some of that Iraq money back home. I'll even admit that I like McCain's nuclear-focused energy policy better than Obama's right now, but overall I think Obama would fund these things better than McCain and that's important to me even if it means some tax increases down the line. Of course, I read the other day that solar nanotechnology will make it competitive with fossil fuels within 5 years, so maybe there's more to the wind/solar-focused plan than I thought.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 10:54 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 10:53:58 AM

governor is an executive position as is the president. being a senator isnt an executive position at all. I think we have only elected 2 senators in our history to the office of president. Sadly, this year will be a 3rd.

action, I think our current entitlements are the iceberg at 12oclock no one wants to talk about or deal with. It is a bigger threat than iraq, obamas church, or 400 dollar haircuts, but no one wants to talk about it. The problem i have with our current govt first mindset is the solution is usually throw more money at it. Just look at both candidates, that is basically what they have proposed. Its money we dont have, also alot of those problems esp education would do better if handled on the local level. Instead people look to a senator from illinios to fix the schools in roxboro, nc. Its ridiculous.

Please dont take this the wrong way. Im not trying to insult you guys or even change your opinion, I just ask for you to think about your views and opinions without the emotion. You mention the spending on Iraq is needed to fix all the other stuff. I think you are focusing on the wrong things. We spend about 100-120B a year(and thats off the budget) in iraq and have a budget of 3 trillion. I see your point but its like saying if gas was 2 bucks a gallon I could afford that lambo. You are caught up in talking points that just dont add up.

Im starting to believe that a fairtax is probably the only thing that can save the democracy. we have to get power back to local and state governments. Our federal govt has failed us consistantly on matters of life and death. Katrina, 9/11, etc. We now look towards our federal govt to fix our local problems. We have fallen far from our framers vision. Look no further than our govt inaction over getting us off fossil fuels. For years they have stalled any new projects, drilling, plants.. bc it was always "not a quick fix, and years away". I really feel the fairtax will get our businesses back in the US, promote independence and saving, and most importantly take away one of politicians biggest political tool for buying votes.. the income tax.

7/8/2008 11:22:18 AM

I like the FairTax in theory. It's got a few problems, mainly that it would really put a strain on retired people who are trying to live off their savings and young people who are trying to buy their first car/house/whatever. They'd have to be careful with the actual rate of taxation too. But if they worked that out, I don't think people would be any worse off, at least, and possibly better.

It's probably worth a try, but I doubt it will ever happen. From what I understand, they'd basically have to repeal the 16th Amendment to impose the FairTax and that would take some doin'.

[Edited on July 8, 2008 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

7/8/2008 11:35:23 AM

I dont think it would strain retired people or young people either. If anything, it helps the young and poor by taking home thier entire paycheck and helps the old by more people paying into SS. I too dont think it will happen, but it is the people's govt and if enough of us get educated on it and push for it.. it can happen. But that is a discussion for a different thread.

7/8/2008 11:38:33 AM

Quote :

"critizism"

Really? Really...? I know this is the internet and everything but if you're trying to argue your points, it helps to appear educated. Your posts are constantly riddled with elementary spelling and grammar errors and that makes you seem like a retard. Take a few lessons from hooksaw on presentation and watch your credibility soar.

As for your full-circle point that always goes back to the Fair Tax, there is no way it would work. It would increase the burden on the poorest Americans while giving even more money to the richest Americans. We already have pretty close to the lowest tax rates in the world, so don't act like it's a huge fucking problem.

I also like how after you got owned on Obama, you go back to your extremely conservative theories on economics. That's all they are really... theories. Because they're so whacked out and extreme that they will never be implemented because they're stupid ideas that wouldn't benefit the country as a whole.

7/8/2008 12:14:58 PM

This is one of the dumbest threads I've ever read in the soap box.

There are so many reasons why he would say no adamently while still considering it. For one thing, he's black and I'm willing to bet his security detail was much smaller before now.

7/8/2008 12:17:12 PM

420, thanks for the tip. Fairtax is a great idea, the progressive income tax is not. In fact it would help the poor my friend. It would also encourage businesses to, not only stay, but come to the US bc of the favorable tax structure.

How did I get owned on obama? (I almost hate myself for asking).

You say WE are giving more money to the richest americans. how so? By allowing them to keep more of thier money, that equals WE GIVING them more money. Your reasoning is really warped.

Its a stupid idea that wont benefit the country as a whole? Kinda like universal healthcare, but that is popular among the ignorant. And I wonder why we have low taxes compared to other countries.....hmmm didnt think that one through did you. What we do have is the second highest coorporate tax rates in the world. Wonder why companies leave...tax them more.. that will help make them stay. Listen to yourself.

Quote :

"Take a few lessons from hooksaw on presentation "

again, everything is presentation with you kids. Try to look at the content, not the presentation. Its usually what important.

7/8/2008 1:45:26 PM

Quote :

"Try to look at the content, not the presentation"

i've argued this for years but it always falls on deaf ears here in TSB

7/8/2008 1:54:56 PM

You can 'say' that all you want, but when your posts lack actual content it's hard to really take you seriously.

7/8/2008 2:02:25 PM

action, monky and the rest. Im actually surprised that the LA times did a story on this.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-obamaplans8-2008jul08,0,5470706.story?page=1

What would you like further explaination of monky?

7/8/2008 2:08:14 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/08/us/politics/08budget.html?_r=2&ref=politics&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

There is the corresponding McCain article.

And from MSNBC

Quote :

"*** Adding it up: The day after McCain and Obama spoke on the economy, the big papers -- not surprisingly -- have fact-checked their economic plans and budget numbers. And neither is passing the smell test. McCain’s assertion that he will balance the budget after his first term is getting the most scrutiny. The reason: Accomplishing that feat is difficult, especially when fighting a war and advocating big tax cuts. “It would be very difficult to achieve in the best of circumstances, and even more difficult under the policies that Senator McCain has proposed,” Robert Bixby of the Concord Coalition told the New York Times. Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Times adds up Obama’s spending proposals and notes that it’s unlikely he will be able to pay for them as he asserts. “A variety of budget analysts are skeptical that the Democrat's agenda could survive in the face of large federal budget deficits and the difficulty of making good on his plan to raise new revenue by closing tax loopholes, ending the Iraq war and cutting spending that is deemed low-priority.""

So no, I don't need any more information because I've already read it. Both of their 'ideal' plans are not perfect, but no one believes that their 'ideal' plans will ever make it through congress and the senate.

7/8/2008 2:12:19 PM

Quote :

"but no one believes that their 'ideal' plans will ever make it through congress and the senate. "

Right, unless you are trying to get a rock solid congress behind you. Then we have a helluva problem. McCain, to my knowledge, wants to cut taxes on coorporations. (great idea) And extend the current tax rates. (I guess that is considered a cut). He also has proposed far less spending and at least is discussing a balanced budget. Great goal, imo.

Big difference from increasing govt spending over the long haul. We dont have an income problem, we have a spending problem. Proposing MORE spending isnt the answer. Do you disagree?

7/8/2008 2:16:38 PM

Quote :

"You can 'say' that all you want, but when your posts lack actual content it's hard to really take you seriously."

have you read your posts in this thread??

7/8/2008 2:19:00 PM