for his role as The Joker in "The Dark Knight"



It sounds stupid, but I have this feeling that the role somehow killed him.






[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:13 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 2:06:03 PM

[new]

7/19/2008 2:08:04 PM

sorry, i havent been following the hype.

the film just opened for us proletariats who dont have access to advanced screenings.

7/19/2008 2:11:57 PM

the film just opening doesn't mean that people haven't been discussing a posthumous oscar for weeks

i didn't see an advance screening, but i knew that everyone had been talking about the performance

hell, they were talking about it a week after he died

7/19/2008 2:17:01 PM

Just because it's been discussed elsewhere doesn't mean it can't be discussed here.

And just because it's discussed here doesn't mean you have to be a dick about it.

7/19/2008 2:27:39 PM

i'm not suggesting we don't discuss it

but this

Quote :

"It sounds stupid, but I have this feeling that the role somehow killed him. "

was one of the very first things that was said in essentially every news release the day after his death

7/19/2008 2:30:48 PM

also pretty much every single one of his co-stars has refuted that

7/19/2008 2:31:57 PM

.

[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:34 PM. Reason : wrong thread]

7/19/2008 2:34:23 PM

vinylbandit apparently failed at some aspect in his life, so he compensates by being snooty to everyone on entertainment boards.


anyhow...


both Gary Oldman and Michael Caine were at the World Premiere (which, unfortunately, I couldn't attend) which resulted in this report on BBC:

Quote :

"Gary Oldman, who plays Jim Gordon in the film, also spoke of the shadow the actor's death had cast over the movie. "It's obviously sad for the family. That's a given," he said. "And it's sad for us because you see what would have been. There's surely a posthumous Oscar nomination. It is electrifying, his performance." The sentiment was echoed by veteran actor Caine who said he'd be very surprised if Ledger didn't get an Oscar. "

now i REALIZE this was back on MONDAY, but i hope it isnt so out-of-date that some snooty dickhead has to post "[NEW]"




[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:49 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 2:38:48 PM

Quote :

"one of the very first things that was said in essentially every news release the day after his death"

yeah, i know. but it was hard to give it much credence back in February, before anyone had seen the movie.

now that the movie is finally released, and we can see the performance. it's just insanely incredible.

and you have to wonder, just a bit, if maybe this amazing performance didnt just somehow drain his life? yeah, that's probably stupid. okay. he obviously had a history with prescription drug abuse -- a terribly deceptive problem that affects many people.

but damn, he was just incredible. and now i feel cheated that we wont have 20 more movies with him in them.








[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:47 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 2:42:41 PM

i honestly don't think it's the kind of performance that's life-draining

it's a really funny performance in a lot of ways and it's full of life

if anything, it's as uplifting as a purely psychotic murderer can be

it's an actor demonstrating a mastery of his craft

7/19/2008 2:47:38 PM

okay, i agree with you. intellectually, thats the only explanation

my remark was just an off the cuff, subjective musing that winds up looking kind of stupid in the light of reason.



back to the title of the thread, i think its pretty certain he'll be nominated for it, but do you think he should be awarded an Oscar?




[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 2:52:57 PM

its hard to say. as ive said in other threads, I was sick of all the hype even though I was really excited for this movie (this much hype usually ruins stuff for me). but after seeing the movie I do have to agree that his performance really was pretty much perfect. And it was a unique enough character that I believe it required going above and beyond the normal acting performance, simply because it allowed for or was required for this role.

So I guess I think its fair to say at this point in time he should be nominated, but deciding whether he should be nominated or receive the award even will depend on the rest of the movies that come out this year really.

[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 2:59 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 2:57:30 PM

Well, I haven't seen a better performance this year, but it's also only July.

7/19/2008 2:59:38 PM

the real question is would we even be talking about this if he were alive?

7/19/2008 2:59:56 PM

^ Yes. It's that good. He managed to play a perfect Joker without really referencing any specific thing from the Nicholson Joker or the Hamill Joker.

7/19/2008 3:01:12 PM

well i havent seen it but it seems fairly preposterous to win an oscar for playing the joker, but im not gonna say anything else until i see it

7/19/2008 3:04:57 PM

Quote :

"i honestly don't think it's the kind of performance that's life-draining"

yea...but method acting can get pretty intense?

*shrug* not saying it was life-draining at all, either. seems like a lot of shit in his personal life was shitting on him.

7/19/2008 3:08:26 PM

basically the really impressive thing is that he took a villianous pyschopathic murderer, deformed and disfigured, painted with a macabre face -- yet managed to make the audience relate and even empathise with him as a human being.

that is an amazing performance. IANAA, but i can only imagine level of intensity, the amount of complete saturation in the character, WOULD leave a person physically and emotionally drained.

if we dont see anything better by december, i think he should get the award posthumously.

what other actors have been awarded an Oscar posthumously? Have there been any? I'd look it up on Google, but my "g" key is broken..






[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 3:11:13 PM

^^^ thats what I thought too (rolly eyes and all heh) *until I saw the movie* Like I said I was SICK of the hype and the talk of his posthumous nomination. But the movie put me in my place

Quote :

"Well, I haven't seen a better performance this year, but it's also only July."

I agree, but the "only July" part is the only reason Im holding out.

[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 3:12 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 3:12:27 PM

^^ one other dude. can't think of his name, though

7/19/2008 3:20:31 PM

[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 3:21 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 3:21:26 PM

Quote :

"I'd look it up in Google, but my "g" key is broken.."

Then shouldn't that have read "I'd look it up in oole, but my "" key is broken.."






One or two other people have won after they died.

7/19/2008 3:24:36 PM

Peter Fincher from "Network" got a post-death Oscar.

I thought Gary Oldman's performance was pretty impressive too.

7/19/2008 3:31:21 PM

Yeah, Oldman was excellent. I didn't buy him as Gordon at first, but he's so good he won me over almost immediately.

7/19/2008 3:34:22 PM

i think the fact that he was months into production of another movie debunks the "tortured by the joker" idea. and i am pretty sure that they ruled it an accidental overdose, so i don't think it is obvious at all that he had a "history of prescription drug abuse". not that what the police rule is necessarily true, but i think it would have been obvious if this were a suicide.

[Edited on July 19, 2008 at 3:42 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2008 3:41:53 PM

he was months into production of another movie in which he played a "similar" type of character

7/19/2008 4:24:19 PM

IMO, here is what it boils down to.

Yes, his performance is Oscar worthy. No, he would not have a chance to be nominated if he hadn't died.

The Oscars have a bad habit of just completely ignoring Blockbuster films that have been highly advertised and promoted. They like to go for niche films that are groomed to be Oscar nominations and completely fail to pull in crowds. They love the films that are niche to few and completely over the head of most. (Forest Gump, Titanic, and RotK are the exceptions to this . . . even though the other LotR films were completely ignored).

7/19/2008 5:11:46 PM

The best example of this is that what is arguably the best film of the '90s, Hoop Dreams, wasn't even nominated for Best Documentary Feature.

7/19/2008 5:20:43 PM

Greatest travesty in awards ever. Seriously! I think the film got a nomination in a small category like editing or something but the film is in my top ten of all time. I might consider it the best true American film ever.

7/19/2008 5:30:31 PM

Quote :

"well i havent seen it but it seems fairly preposterous to win an oscar for playing the joker, but im not gonna say anything else until i see it"

well then, you should see the movie. really, its an amazing performance.

7/19/2008 5:39:25 PM

yeah that movie he was filming in when he died is supposed to be pretty crazy

7/19/2008 5:39:37 PM

Quote :

"Peter Fincher from "Network" got a post-death Oscar."

i heard he died like 2 weeks b/f the oscars were awarded too. so he was nominated while alive.

it'll be a year after ledger's death b/f the oscar nominations happen so ...

7/19/2008 6:47:12 PM

i wouldnt be surprised if he won..oscars lost all credibility years ago anyways

7/19/2008 6:48:32 PM

Quote :

"basically the really impressive thing is that he took a villianous pyschopathic murderer, deformed and disfigured, painted with a macabre face -- yet managed to make the audience relate and even empathise with him as a human being."

really? what was there to empathize with? how do you empathize with a character who continuously lied about how he got his scars? he lied to everyone about everything. he was exactly who he was, which was no one that anyone could relate to. the impressive part was that the character wasn't the least bit relatable and you couldn't empathize with him.

7/19/2008 6:59:45 PM

Quote :

"Yes, his performance is Oscar worthy. No, he would not have a chance to be nominated if he hadn't died. The Oscars have a bad habit of just completely ignoring Blockbuster films that have been highly advertised and promoted. They like to go for niche films that are groomed to be Oscar nominations and completely fail to pull in crowds. They love the films that are niche to few and completely over the head of most. (Forest Gump, Titanic, and RotK are the exceptions to this . . . even though the other LotR films were completely ignored)."

I agree

7/19/2008 7:44:21 PM

Quote :

"It sounds stupid, but I have this feeling that the role somehow killed him. "

you really think the man was that weak willed?

7/19/2008 8:09:15 PM

the only legitimate theory i have heard that could be described as the role killing him, is the fact that almost all of his scenes were shot at night, fucking up his sleep schedule, which got him into the Ambien

7/19/2008 8:53:22 PM

or his relationship with michelle williams was going to shit and he couldn't be around his daughter as much as he wanted to

you can't sleep when you're that depressed and stupid shit like that is on your mind

7/19/2008 9:26:05 PM

Would it be for best actor or best supporting actor

I mean the Batman was technically the main character, but Ledger played just as important a role and had nearly as much screen time

7/19/2008 9:52:43 PM

^^ no kidding

7/19/2008 9:56:45 PM

Yahoo actually had a video the other day of the various co-stars all saying that the role didn't kill him.

Michael Caine said that even though it was an intense performance Ledger would still break character to joke and talk with everyone between takes. It wasn't one of those Daniel Day-Lewis numbers where he would stay in character for the duration of filming.

7/19/2008 10:10:07 PM

^ haha, that staying in character shit would get old and fucking annoying QUICK

7/19/2008 10:13:16 PM

I'm gonna say supporting actor.

And there's no doubt he wins if that's his nomination.

7/20/2008 2:13:46 AM

well, of course all the actors are going to say that the role didnt kill him. for any of them to say otherwise would implicate the whole industry, and alienate themselves from their peers and people who make the money decisions.

but i dont think its unreasonable to suggest that the intensity of the filming and acting demands could have possibly pushed him just far enough to where he felt like he needed multiple prescription drugs to cope, and then lost his ability to keep track of things in his life.

Even if that's true, it's such a subtle dynamic that no one could ever prove such a thing. But I'm just sayin i can see it as a possibility ... especially if he had a prior history of drug abuse (which apparently he did to some extent) and he could have quite likely been in the thick of "situational depression" regarding his personal relationships.






[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 3:30 AM. Reason : ]

7/20/2008 3:23:04 AM

Quote :

"And the late Heath Ledger's performance was nothing short of brilliant. He managed to find and bring to the screen the very essence of the Joker, while simultaneously reinventing the character--Jack Nicholson merely aped a caricature. Ledger deserves at least a posthumous Oscar nomination for his Dark Knight performance, and I actually think he should be awarded the statuette."

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=468213&page=24

7/20/2008 3:32:56 AM

yeah yeah, we're all aware of how many batman threads there are..

7/20/2008 3:55:36 AM

no you missed his point. hooksaw is flirting with me again.

he wants to remind me that we do, in fact, have more in common with each other than the fact that we both like soup.

7/20/2008 4:30:47 AM

how are you guys falling for this? his death is a publicity stunt.

7/20/2008 11:13:19 AM

yes, they murdered a person in order to sell movie tickets.

7/20/2008 1:52:23 PM