I don't remember this league when I was a kid. I wish they did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOc9BDc8Tsw

7/23/2008 11:49:22 AM

This was all over ESPN on Sunday morning. There was a big debate over it.

7/23/2008 11:54:26 AM

they have youth boxing, no real difference in my mind.

7/23/2008 12:01:18 PM

kids box as well, right? I definitely think they should have had head gear on to prevent injuries but other than that it looks like kids sparing.

7/23/2008 12:02:43 PM

I went to boxing camps when I was a kid, not kickboxing mind you.

7/23/2008 12:14:23 PM

as long as they dont treat the kids like adults its fine

ad of course increased discretion


i watch kids grappling tournaments all the time, they are intelligent enough to understand the concept of pain and injury associated with submissions like locks and chokes

they know how to tap, kids train at my gym also in mma and they know how to follow instructions and obey commands

its fine, but i totally understand why people could be against it and dont blame m for it. its a rough sport but increased referee scrutiny is necessary and should be mandatory

7/23/2008 12:28:59 PM

Frank Shamrock was on Outside the Lines and tried to argue with a couple people. Unfortunately for him and some Kids MMA supporters he was horribly pwnt. His views were very biased and he made an ass of himself. Basically said that this should be encouraged by parents, he didn't care about underground events,safety, etc. and he dodged all of the tough questions.

7/23/2008 12:51:15 PM

thats unfortunate, Frank is a much more intelligent man that that

im kind of shocked, them booking him as the voice for kids MMA would almost seem like they were trying to get a valid and respected viewpoint


its a shame that he messed that up, maybe he was caught off guard?

Bill Orelly did that with rich franklin or dana or someone, brought the fighter in cold and blindsided him with questions that he obviously wasnt prepared for

i wouldn go so far as to ENCOURAGE parents to get their kids into it, but if it seems the children are interested let em try, not try to mold kids into fighters

7/23/2008 1:02:36 PM

He started off fine, but he was debating with a very well-respected Sports Psychologist who is endorsed by just about anyone connected with sports leadership.

The whole segment is here http://ballhype.com/video/outside_the_lines_mma_for_kids_espn_video/

If you don't have time to watch it-There are two different ways of teaching used by Kid's MMA instructors. One style has kids as young as 5 grappling/sparring in their second lesson with no gear but gloves. The other style is more true MA, and the kids don't even spar until 18 months of training.

Frank tried to argue that ALL forms of Kids MMA is an art that teaches discipline, etc., which it of course can. However, he would not budge when asked his opinion about full-contact, poorly officiated bouts-he just reiterated that MA teaches discipline, etc. The Psychologist was asking questions that needed to be asked for an intelligent debate, Frank was laughing them off and became very defensive/argumentative.

[Edited on July 23, 2008 at 1:17 PM. Reason : q]

7/23/2008 1:15:35 PM

Quote :

"Frank tried to argue that ALL forms of Kids MMA is an art that teaches discipline, etc., which it of course can. However, he would not budge when asked his opinion about full-contact, poorly officiated bouts-he just reiterated that MA teaches discipline, etc. The Psychologist was asking questions that needed to be asked for an intelligent debate, Frank was laughing them off and became very defensive/argumentative. "

As soon as he opened his mouth he sounded like an ass. Totally threw any credibility out the window. He never answered a difficult question and tried it say it was all martial arts, while the other guy is like they aren't even close.

I have no problem with kids doing karate and I probably wouldn't have a problem with this MMA stuff if following the pattern of very little combat until after several lessons. Sparring at the second lesson is ridiculous, especially for little kids. At the ages some of this kids are starting out, they can't correlate between what stays in the gym and what's allowed to do in a public setting, like the school yard.

7/23/2008 8:30:24 PM

I think Frank did fine...and I agree that MMA is something all kids should do.

I mean, look at our society, specifically men in our society. We have raised up generations of men who do not take initiative, who avoid tough situtations and retreat from their families, who aren't strong decisions makers, and don't take leadership. It's no suprise that the divorce rate is breaking 50%.

The other guy was so ignorant in my opinion. He said, "the good and bad martial arts." Basically his idea of martial ats is tae kwon do...I mean seriously...the americanized version of tae kwon do that we have here is hardly real tae kwon do. Martial arts has forms all over the world, the greatest societies of the world raised their men this way, and a lot of societies still do. Taught and regulated the right way, MMA has no more injury potential than any other sport, but *just like any other sport* taught the wrong way for the wrong reasons it's wrong and very dangerous. A football coach who teaches his 11 year olds to go out head hunting, dirty chop blocking, nasty crack backs, or the basketball coach who teaches his team how to foul hard, the coach that is soley about winning (which can and does exist in every sport).

I just think it's very ignorant of people to limit their view of martial arts adn what is acceptable in a "moral society" (which has turned into a society of emasculated men).

7/24/2008 3:34:08 PM

I think he meant by "good and bad martial arts" that he disliked the 10 year-olds punching to the head, kneeing in the ribs, and piledriving each other while parents watch and referees encourage cheering. I don't think he has a problem with MMA in general, but when he asked Frank about the above, he smirked and dodged the question, brought up discipline, etc. etc. Said a lot of the same things you said as well. I agree with some points he made but he made a fool of himself and could have done a lot better of a job representing his sport.

7/24/2008 3:44:40 PM

Quote :

""moral society" (which has turned into a society of emasculated men). "

quote of the fuckin year

Referees encourage cheering during a match to make the kids feel good and not give up in tough situations

and it works beautifully

[Edited on July 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM. Reason : c]

7/24/2008 4:06:36 PM

Not feeling it with kids...Not my son


III

7/24/2008 4:09:14 PM

I have no problem with kids practicing MMA as a whole. If Golden Gloves boxing, karate and BJJ can be taught safely to youngsters, then certainly a hybrid of all of them can be on the table. However, headgear must be worn and other safety measures should be taken. If the fundamentals are there, you don't need a kid knocked out to prove their skill set. Shamrock should have realized this and gone the route of safety first and fun first. Instead, he made all of us that support the sport look bad and gave the pundits looking to take MMA down another feather in their cap.

7/24/2008 4:14:21 PM

I redact. I can agree with ^somewhat. If proper headgear is worn and more stringent rules and governance were followed, I think I would be more ok. However, at the same time I think there should be an age for it before they engaged in actual competition say 8 or so.

I did do Kickboxing and Karate at the age of 6/7, but was not allowed to fully spare until I reached a certain belt level or age.

With pads, restrictions, and certain criteria I could relax my own standards.


III

7/24/2008 4:21:44 PM

^^thats why i think he was somehow caught off guard

shamrock is not a dumb man and is well spoken and is always a good ambassador he has a complete understanding of competition, business, and training

(i still havent looked at the clip, take that for what its worth)

7/24/2008 4:36:08 PM

I just want my son to be a Spartan...

7/25/2008 2:22:19 AM

I don't have much of a problem with it...I know organized contact sports can teach a lot about discipline but if the kids grow up and beat the fuck out of the other kids in the school there might be a problem

7/28/2008 6:15:10 PM