Just wondering if any of you were homeschooled (I was not). If so, what advantages/disadvantages do you think you had coming to college based on this background? What did you find difficult about college life? College academics? What did you find easy?

Just curious!

7/26/2008 8:42:55 PM

i think the disadvantage comes with the type of people that typically choose to homeschool their kids, not the actual homeschool part

7/26/2008 8:48:25 PM

elaborate?

7/26/2008 8:51:09 PM

the jesus camp kids

7/26/2008 9:06:52 PM

As a former educator (and now SAHM), I believe that the problem with homeschooling stems from a number of things including the motivations behind it. Children are generally homeschooled because parents wish to isolate and shelter their children. It is a way of protecting children from society at large and teaching them a narrow view. A lot of homeschoolers genuinely believe that they are their child's best teacher, but they seem to forget that their child will one day have to deal with society at large and that 'school' teaches far more than subject material. No matter how hard homeschoolers attempt to socialize their children, they still fail at a certain level because most socialization takes place with other homeschoolers. And let's face it, it is a relatively homogeneous group that chooses to home school. Just think about it, a family has to be able to sacrifice an income and feel that they are capable of teaching the subject material at least seek out certain resources. The issue really is far more complex than that, but that is my nutshell view.

My husband likes to put it: "NC STATE IS JUST LIKE MY MOM'S KITCHEN."

[Edited on July 26, 2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2008 10:12:40 PM

I was homeschooled K-12 (except for a 3-month period when I went to a public school in France), and I'll try to elaborate more about homeschooling in general/particular when I'm not so damn tired.

7/27/2008 2:53:36 AM

so it made you lazy?

7/27/2008 1:10:30 PM

in my opinion homeschooled kids always grow up as being socially fucked up

7/27/2008 1:39:16 PM

^Only homeschooled kid I ever met growing (came to our school our sophmore year) was pretty funny and fit in just fine...from everything I've heard though, he's the exception

7/27/2008 2:03:54 PM

Are you doing a presentation in your schools and society class? ELP344?

7/27/2008 2:22:45 PM

the majority that I've met can't have a normal conversation but there are a few exceptions

7/27/2008 5:03:04 PM

one of my best friends is homeschooled but you'd never guess it.

his mom is a professor in the textiles dept. though.

[Edited on July 28, 2008 at 9:13 AM. Reason : .]

7/28/2008 9:13:05 AM

Quote :

"Children are generally homeschooled because parents wish to isolate and shelter their children. It is a way of protecting children from society at large and teaching them a narrow view."

do you believe this? have you spent a lot of time around homeschool programs? I disagree that the wish is the shelter and isolate children, infact often its quite the opposite, that many parents of home schooled children encourage extracurricular activities which promote mingling with non-home schooled children. socialization comes in all forms, and the majority of us learn how to behave based on our interactions at school (due primarily to the amount of time spent there). regardless you seem to be talking outside of your experience.

7/28/2008 9:30:03 AM

^I would say the limited experience with homeschooling that most of us have (friends, friend of a friend, etc.) would lend to that view. probably just as much as you oppose that view

7/28/2008 9:43:27 AM

I just think its a bit ridiculous to assume that the main goal is to isolate, protect, and limit their spectrum in education.

According to most of the homeschoolers and educators with whom I have interacted, the main goal is to provide a better education than that of public school, with a specialized learning track tailored to the individual(s) learning style and speed.

7/28/2008 9:50:05 AM

I am acquainted with quite a few parents who pulled their children from public schools in order to homeschool and the primary motivation was to provide a more CONSERVATIVE education than public schools and keep their children away from influences that they perceived to be negative.

At Sylvan, I did work with one homeschooled child who was pulled from public school simply because he could not function in the classroom environment. That is not uncommon either.

(And I don't believe that I am talking outside of my field of experience. In providing supplemental education and tutorial services, it is not uncommon to work with children who are homeschooled by parents who are not qualified to teach certain subjects. I also know several families in my social circle who homeschooled at least for a period of time.)

I will admit that I am far more familiar with homeschooling in rural areas as opposed to suburban and urban areas. Maybe the motivations behind homeschooling differ from one setting to another. And I agree that homeschoolers see that their "main goal is to provide a better education than that of public school, with a specialized learning track tailored to the individual(s) learning style and speed," but I think that desire is born out of a need to shelter.

[Edited on July 28, 2008 at 10:37 AM. Reason : .]

7/28/2008 10:27:45 AM

So its born out of the desire to shelter, and nothing the do with the fact that NC is ~48th in the Nation for education. As well as our educational system falling far behind that of Europe and Asia.

There are two basic schools of thought when educating. Broad general education which catches the majority of students, and then a more specialized track which defines students to a more specific career and skill set. Europe offers the later, the US the former, which often leaves kids in a lurch when they graduate HS without any technical skills. (...could continue to rant about degree inflation etc,, which is one of the reasons college is so crucial.) Basically a generalized education offers a spectrum of information to all, but often lets many fall through the cracks due to its non-specific nature.

Oh and did I mention our incredible NCLB program? Its really kicking off great.

I am not a full advocate of HS but do not agree the motive is the shelter. Especially when you consider the alternative. Never meant to entirely discredit you, but tutoring one homeschooler once or twice week, and having an acquaintance or two doesn't exactly put in you in the expert category.

7/28/2008 10:50:21 AM

i dont think either one of you are completely correct or incorrect. I have known tons of kids who were homeschooled while growing up (between sports and my neighborhood id say ive had maybe 15 or more friends that I did a lot with while growing up who were homeschooled) and some of my GF's close friends have been homeschooled too.

In my experience, the majority of them were leaning more towards the sheltered side. With only maybe 2 of them that seemed like their parents were doing it to get ahead academically. It is certainly done for both reasons though, but in my experience, it was slightly leaning towards the sheltered side of the argument.

7/28/2008 10:54:22 AM

I have known home schooled children that are well adjusted and very successful. There was one though, that I had an English class with that was particularly sheltered. Her first semester at state she seemed so out of place. She was totally timid, fragile and generally unsocialized that I really wonder how the rest of her college career went. From talking to her it seemed like she was completely isolated at home with a very weird mother.

7/28/2008 10:57:30 AM

bmdurham, were you homeschooled? Are you homeschooling your children (if you have any)? What makes you far more qualified and insightful? And if you are a member of the homeschooling movement, your opinions are probably just as biased as my own.

I will admit that as a licensed public school teacher , I have a biased view of homeschooling. But as a result of being a licensed teacher and accredited tutor, I have interacted with more than just a few children who were/are homeschooled. A lot of parents who homeschool have to seek out services like Sylvan or private tutors because they simply aren't qualified to teach certain material. I am not an expert on homeschooling and I do not claim to be, but I feel that I have an informed (though biased) opinion.

And it is a fact that the average homeschooler in America is homeschooled for religious or moral reasons and a fear of the public school environment. The concern for academics actually comes in 3rd.

http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool has lots of information on homeschooling in the US.

[Edited on July 28, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason : .]

7/28/2008 11:21:39 AM

I never disagreed that HS students are often lacking in social skills due to their isolation from public schools. I just don't believe the primary motive of the parents is the shelter their kids, although it is (often considered) a benefit. HS parents often evaluate the public school system (as i stated above) and seek to provide a better education (especially at the lower levels, elementary and middle).

Some children adapt well to new environments such as highschool or college, but most of that comes to their experience with larger social settings as well as their confidence in said settings.

7/28/2008 11:26:20 AM

^^ yes, I was homeschooled (more of a charter/pilot program, i can elaborate if necessary) for a year before high school. my sis was in the same program for 3, and I had numerous (~15) friends who were homeschooled or had alternative forms of education. As i said, I wasn't challenging your knowledge, rather stating that if you hadn't been homeschooled or homeschooled your own kids, it might make it hard for you to provide insight. Obviously I am far from an expert, but having studied some social education in school, as well as having a foot in both traditional public schools and homeschooling allows me to comment on both sides of the fence. I admit my experience was probably less typical as it was a unique program, but many of the students had left traditional HS environments due to the demands associated with higher levels of education (similar to your tutoring example).

7/28/2008 11:37:52 AM

Public school sucks. I can totally understand wanting to homeschool your kids in this day and age.

7/28/2008 11:39:45 AM

@Jrb599: If you notice the time stamp on my post, it was 3 in the f'ing morning. So there.

Alright. My parents' motivation for hs'ing me (and my sister and brother) was twofold: they believed they would provide a better education than a government-run school (and they did, I think) and they also wanted religion/Christianity to be a much bigger part. That didn't turn out so good, since I'm a raving agnostic/atheist now, but one out of two educational goals isn't too bad. Sheltering me was not part of the original thinking, but I think it's one of the consequences when you believe "the world" is a bad place where everyone hates Christians and wants to turn you into an atheist monster.

The hs community, believe it or not, has noticed that the biggest complaint about homeschoolers is the socialization issue. I had the majority of my classes at home, but I also had a lot of interaction with people outside, both scholastic and otherwise. From middle school and high school, some subjects just get really difficult to teach at home, especially if the teaching parent isn't very familiar with the topic. I do have to give mad props to my mother, who simultaneously taught myself, my sister (two years younger) and my brother (seven years younger) all subjects until I started aging out into the "difficult phase." Those subjects include things like advanced math, sciences that require a lab, drama/public speaking, etc.

So we band together: co-ops are the name of the game. For the Durham/Chapel Hill area, there's Providence School and Deerstream (which my mom helped found) where parents either hire an outside specialized teacher or do it themselves with science or math or other stuff, usually meeting once or twice a week and that takes the place of a class at home. I myself took biology, public speaking, history, chemistry, and a basic computer class, among other things. Once people get to upper classmen in high school, Durham Tech (and possibly all surround state universities) offer the option to dual-enroll in college classes, earning both high school and college transfer credit. It's like the homeschooler's version of AP classes, though we can take AP tests if we want. I transferred about 27 hours or so from Durham Tech when I came to State (Trig, Calc I & II, French I & II, history classes, computer classes, can't remember everything).

These co-ops end up being a big part of the scholastic socialization that lots of people don't see, since we're only hanging out with others of our ilk. But outside of school-related stuff, I participated in Civil Air Patrol for five years (nothing like learning social skills from a gunnery sergeant in the Marines ), played for Chapel Hill HS's Ultimate frisbee team during my senior year, swam on the swim team at our pool for twelve years, and I lived in France for three months in 2002 and went to a public school there. It's not like we're locked up at home all the time...I mean, some people are and I can't stand them at all, because they give the rest of us "normal" homeschoolers a bad rep. It's kind of funny, because a lot of my friends were really surprised to find out that I was homeschooled forever, since I didn't/don't match the preconception of the un-socialized stereotype. I think the stereotypical homeschooler takes up a little less than half of the entire homeschooling population, while the rest of us don't blatantly advertise it and fit in with society at large with no problems. Although, I did really miss out on the cultural socialization: my parents didn't really let me listen to any music that wasn't Christian (I hate Christian music now), so I'm really musically ignorant and that grates on me. There's a lot of slang that I'm catching up on, too (thank you, urbandictionary ).

As far as comparing academics goes, averaged across the board, homeschoolers typically score higher on standardized tests than public schooled kids do. With the SAT as the biggest comparison, I think homeschoolers generally score 20-30 points more or something, I don't remember. This, unfortunately, contributes to a BIG superiority complex among a lot of homeschoolers. Many of the conservative Christian support groups/publishers/etc. are forever going on about how all public schoolers suck and it's up to homeschoolers to lead the way for future generations. I kid you not, in one of my brother's online classes, this girl wrote an essay that said something like "public-school-educated people will lead our country into a moral darkness and we homeschoolers must save the world." It's pretty fucking ridiculous, and that mindset, if not corrected, is going to hurt her a lot when she goes to college and after graduation.

One of the things that I personally missed was having a really solid group of friends. I mean, I know a lot of people through homeschooling, but I don't have any "best" friends, people that I can really count on from high school. I doesn't matter so much now, since I've made awesome friends at college, but after I graduated I felt really alone. Poor me. And I know that that's not everyone's experience, but I would have liked to have a group of people that I had been around every day for years.

Heh, I feel like I could write much much more. I've wondered if there's a good comprehensive history/book on homeschooling, outside of the ubiquitous religious views and if there's not, if I could write one. Homeschooling really is a mixed bag, just like every other schooling method. People really just see the bad parts of it, unfortunately. I'll probably expand on these points and more later; ask any questions you want, I've really been thinking about my homeschooling experience the last couple of years.

/words

[Edited on July 28, 2008 at 12:29 PM. Reason : smileys...]

7/28/2008 12:28:29 PM

^I know, I was totally kiddin'.

7/28/2008 1:34:32 PM

My experience with homeschooling and homeschoolers is very similar to ^^. I was homeschooled from 7th grade through high school. My mom has a degree in education so that certainly helped although I am not sure it is needed if the right motivation is there for the teacher.

My parents made the decision to homeschool us (I have one brother and two sisters) because they had goals for us academically that weren't really available in public schools in our area (Fayetteville). Overall, I think we are all well socialized. There was the co-op that we participated in like Flying Tiger and church groups and activities. The co-op had a debate club, band, sports teams, etc. and all of my siblings and I participated in those activities with other kids. A local christian school in the area also allows homeschoolers to try out for their athletic teams so I played soccer and basketball throughout high school with them. I could go on, but there are dozens of activites, clubs and groups that homeschoolers can join and socialize and many of them do. So far, all of my siblings and I have attended college and have had no issues fitting in socially or academically. Sister is at UNC, brother went to Campbell, and I went to State.

Quote :

"As far as comparing academics goes, averaged across the board, homeschoolers typically score higher on standardized tests than public schooled kids do. With the SAT as the biggest comparison, I think homeschoolers generally score 20-30 points more or something, I don't remember. This, unfortunately, contributes to a BIG superiority complex among a lot of homeschoolers. Many of the conservative Christian support groups/publishers/etc. are forever going on about how all public schoolers suck and it's up to homeschoolers to lead the way for future generations."

I agree with this 100% although I would imagine that the differences in standardized test scores have much more to do with the lack of demographic diversity in homeschooling than a necessarily better education. Homeschooling isn't cheap and the poor and disadvantaged, a demographic that typically does worse on standardized tests, just aren't really represented in any significant numbers in the home school community.

Quote :

"It's not like we're locked up at home all the time...I mean, some people are and I can't stand them at all, because they give the rest of us "normal" homeschoolers a bad rep. It's kind of funny, because a lot of my friends were really surprised to find out that I was homeschooled forever, since I didn't/don't match the preconception of the un-socialized stereotype. I think the stereotypical homeschooler takes up a little less than half of the entire homeschooling population, while the rest of us don't blatantly advertise it and fit in with society at large with no problems."

I also agree with this. Most of the homeschoolers that I know and still hang out with on occasion you would never know they are homeschooled.

7/28/2008 2:01:31 PM

Very interesting conversation. No, I'm not taking any ELP course for the person who asked.

Quote :

"It is a way of protecting children from society at large and teaching them a narrow view." "

bottombaby you raise some valid points. I was wondering if you could explain your experience with homeschooled children being provided a narrow view. How specifically?


I have heard that generally homeschooling falls into two categories- those who are religiously affiliated and not. Is that accurate?

7/28/2008 2:59:16 PM

Quote :

"I was wondering if you could explain your experience with homeschooled children being provided a narrow view. How specifically?"

I have a rabidly fanatical aunt (who lives in wake county...not pembroke or some equally shitty BFE HQ) who fully intended to homeschool her kids. Why?

Because there might be gay teachers, her kids would be exposed to evolution, they might get made fun of for saying grace over lunch, and she didn't want her son contaminated by non-believing classmates. Because she wanted to protect her son.

I assure you that this woman is utterly incapable of providing anything balanced, except meals. She also became quite fruity after becoming a stay-at-home-mom - the lack of adult contact totally eroded her social skills.

This is a woman who won't let my sister babysit her kids, because I live in sin with my bf.

7/28/2008 4:34:02 PM

Quote :

"I have heard that generally homeschooling falls into two categories- those who are religiously affiliated and not. Is that accurate?"

That's like saying the American public falls into two categories- those who eat strawberries and those who don't. I mean, yeah, I guess you can say that but it doesn't really mean anything.

If you are suggesting that those who are religiously affiliated are the stereotypical unsocialized cretins, and those not affiliated with religion are socially well-adjusted and "normal", then that is not accurate.

Religious fundies raising sheltered, maladjusted children caused them to want to homeschool, not the other way around. By that I mean, homeschooling didn't cause those children to live up to the stereotype. It is completely possible, if not likely, that given the right motivation, parents can homeschool their children and raise well rounded, educated, and successful adults.

7/28/2008 4:45:25 PM

Quote :

"If you are suggesting that those who are religiously affiliated are the stereotypical unsocialized cretins, and those not affiliated with religion are socially well-adjusted and "normal", then that is not accurate."

No I am not suggesting that at all. It was my understanding that homeschoolers are generally divided into two camps (social circles)--those who were faith based homeschoolers and those who were not. I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. I was just curious to know if there were other perspectives on this.

7/28/2008 7:05:02 PM

Quote :

"bottombaby you raise some valid points. I was wondering if you could explain your experience with homeschooled children being provided a narrow view. How specifically?"

The big issue is religion, so I'll just go ahead and knock that one out of the park. A majority of homeschoolers are a part of the Evangelical Christian Right -- that is a statistical fact. These families focus on Christian moral education. I do not believe that I need to go into detail about how this teaches a narrow view. But I promise you that Evangelical Christian parents are not teaching evolution or exposing their children to other cultures and religious views like one may come across in public schools.

I have had a number of parents confide that they pulled their child from public school because of the number of minorities. They did not like that their white child was sitting in a class full of *gasp* black and Mexican children. Or that their child did not have a single white teacher that year. I think that pulling your child from a school because of conservative racist views pretty much insures that your child's horizons are being narrowed rather than broadened.

I am in the middle of cooking dinner, so I cannot elaborate further at this moment. But I can give you extremely child specific examples if you would like me to. I have worked with several homeschooled children who made comments that left me flabbergasted.

7/28/2008 7:39:54 PM

^ Fascinating! Thank you!

This teaching you did- was it in Wake County? You mentioned something about rural areas (how rural are we talking here?)

7/28/2008 9:23:12 PM

I am originally from Pitt County. The non-professional experience that I have with homeschooling is from families in the Greenville area, not extremely rural. . .but far more rural than Raleigh. The professional experience that I have is in Wake County. I did my practicum at CCMS and Apex High. Then I worked as a nanny and tutor in Cary and Garner.

You should definitely listen to the kids who have actually gone through homeschooling, but I think that the outside view of homeschooling is just as important.

I am far more qualified to homeschool my son than most parents are, but I doubt that I will homeschool him unless it becomes medically necessary. (My son is 'special needs.') My husband and I have done a great deal of talking about it because I have had it brought up to me on numerous occasions by some of my clients. I just think that the experience that comes with public schooling out weighs what I can provide at home alone. Ideally, I want my child to have the lessons provided in a public forum and those I can provide at home.

Just from a practical stand point, in public schools you have to learn how to deal with differences and variety. You have to learn how to deal with different cultures, races, and socio-economic backgrounds. You have to learn how to deal with different types of people -- some people are trustworthy and some people are just assholes. You also have to learn how to deal with different teachers and teaching methods. Not all teachers or bosses are the same. You will deal easily with some and not as easily with others. I feel that there is some value to learning these practical life lessons as a student in the public school system than later in life.

7/28/2008 9:49:19 PM

One of the parts of my education that I am most dissatisfied with is the scientific, especially in regards to evolution. The chemistry, physics, and biology textbooks that I had (written by a nuclear physicist, go figure) all had sections on why Young Earth Creationism was true and the theory of evolution was a poorly-researched, over-praised, faulty view of the universe. And it's only a theory, so it doesn't mean much.

As you might imagine, that view took a pretty hard fall once I got to State and realized that YEC was, in fact, the very thing it had labeled evolution. My subsequent research into evolution was one of the reasons I left Christianity, much to my parents' displeasure. But you can't argue with the facts, and it's very unfortunate that most homeschoolers do not get them as far as science goes. Every other homeschooled person/family I know is Christian conservative, though I hear there is a healthy liberal group in Chapel Hill/Carrboro.

Another syndrome of my Christian upbringing is my former dislike/revulsion for gay people. And since my roommate during my second freshman semester was bisexual, that had to change, lol. Plus, my gf graduated from UNCG in theatre ed., so she knows a lot of gay people and interacting with them has taught me a lot a little later than I'd have liked. I know that issue might not be a big deal to most people and it's certainly not limited to only homeschoolers, but when you have an environment that is staunchly conservative Christian and almost anti-everything else, relating to and learning from other religions and political views is something that is easily lost. That online class that I mentioned earlier that my brother is in, most of the kids there think all liberals and non-Christians are evil, evil people (thankfully, my brother is learning from my life and example that that is not the case) with nothing to be learned from them. And I know that they'll eventually mature and grow more "enlightened", but that really annoys me about homeschoolers in general.

Edit: I'd also like to mention that a lot of the homeschooled kids I knew growing up are brilliant people, in which cases it was probably good that they were homeschooled and allowed some of the better opportunities that homeschooling offers to specialize in certain areas. There's a lot of fantastic musical talent that has come out of the Chapel Hill homeschooling community. I know several people who have gone to the U. of Chicago and Harvard and grad. school after that partly because of the stuff they did while homeschooling that would have been difficult or impossible if they had been public schooled (I think...gotta admit I know pretty much nothing about public schools). And then you have people like me, with a GPA of 2.7, struggling along at the bottom, lol.

At the end of the day with all fors and againsts added up, I am glad that I was homeschooled. My parents did a great job and sacrificed a lot for what they believed they could do for me and my siblings, and I believe they achieved their goal (besides all of us being strong Christians at the end, lol).

I suppose I could expand on the curricula that are available to homeschoolers if there's any interest in that. Parents don't go around pulling this stuff out of their asses, I dunno if you guys knew that or not. Mermaidz: I'm wondering what prompted the curiosity in this topic, do you know some people that homeschool or something?

[Edited on July 28, 2008 at 11:03 PM. Reason : edit]

7/28/2008 10:53:40 PM

^word.

good thread, fwiw. Will read again.

7/29/2008 10:11:03 AM

Quote :

"The big issue is religion, so I'll just go ahead and knock that one out of the park. A majority of homeschoolers are a part of the Evangelical Christian Right -- that is a statistical fact. These families focus on Christian moral education. I do not believe that I need to go into detail about how this teaches a narrow view. But I promise you that Evangelical Christian parents are not teaching evolution or exposing their children to other cultures and religious views like one may come across in public schools. I have had a number of parents confide that they pulled their child from public school because of the number of minorities. They did not like that their white child was sitting in a class full of *gasp* black and Mexican children. Or that their child did not have a single white teacher that year. I think that pulling your child from a school because of conservative racist views pretty much insures that your child's horizons are being narrowed rather than broadened. "

CRAZY! You mean that whites, the rich people, choose to teach their own children about their own culture and beliefs. Every caring parent in the world would home school their children if they didnt have to go to work.

Please tell me how going to a public school does anything but give a child a 2nd rate education.

7/29/2008 11:32:07 AM

^ fine, i will bite.

It provides socialization. Most importantly being able to report to various individauls of authority (teachers/assignments) and act within social norms. This structured environment translates directly to college or the work force, where you are held accountable by multiple individuals for tasks and projects. And you are able to meet tons of people your age, and engage in (free) sports of all kinds, some of which you might not have been exposed to in a HS setting. Not to say these aren't found in HS, but they very present and available in public school.

and band.
and clubs.
and student gov.
and various languages you parents are unlikely to know/teach... latin/spanish/german etc.



But I do agree our public school system is shite.


[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 11:47 AM. Reason : blah devils advocate]

7/29/2008 11:41:45 AM

my most rewarding part of High School was being on extremely competitive sports teams, i definitely would have missed out on that with homeschooling. However that is just me. Everyone develops better in specific settings.

7/29/2008 12:13:24 PM

As the homeschooling movement has matured, sports have become things that homeschoolers do together, like the co-ops I mentioned earlier. I know that there is a nation-wide basketball league (guys and girls) and the Durham guys high school team either won it or got second last year, very competitive. I'm not sure of other sports, but I know some options are there. My brother has swum for several years for the Tar Heel Aquatic Team and I'm sure he will kick serious ass if he continues to swim up until the college level. I got to play Ultimate frisbee at Chapel Hill High, although I'm not sure of the legality of that. Some schools don't allow homeschoolers to play (maybe most schools?) on their athletic teams, though the argument there is that homeschooling parents still pay the taxes used to support public schools, so they should be allowed to use some of the benefits. Otherwise, a lot of people support a tax credit per child for families that homeschool.

7/29/2008 12:45:40 PM

^^In general, you are right. Sports opportunities are more limited than in public schools, but like I said before, I was able to join up with a private school and we played a full season against private schools all over the state.

I also played club soccer throughout high school and that was much more competitive than a typical high school soccer team.

7/29/2008 1:32:21 PM

yea club soccer is great for that (I played that as well and agree). Unfortunately a lot of sports get left out. Im not saying its some huge downfall of homeschooling though. For ME I would have missed out on a lot but I know not everyone else would have. My favorite sport growing up was wrestling so I know that I am a pretty oddball case in that respect (private schools generally have pretty uncompetitive wrestling teams if they even have enough kids interested).

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 2:22:04 PM

Yea, sports (and girls) was the main reason i decide to leave the program i was in to return to public school. I was playing club soccer all throughout but still wanted to have a chance to shine on our highschool team. Also i wouldn't have gotten into lacrosse (because i was really amatuer) and wouldn't have made a club team.

7/29/2008 2:25:40 PM

Quote :

"Mermaidz: I'm wondering what prompted the curiosity in this topic, do you know some people that homeschool or something? "

Actually I know very little about it...just wanted to hear some opinions.

Keep talking this is great!

7/29/2008 9:35:13 PM

Quote :

"It provides socialization. Most importantly being able to report to various individauls of authority (teachers/assignments) and act within social norms. This structured environment translates directly to college or the work force, where you are held accountable by multiple individuals for tasks and projects. And you are able to meet tons of people your age, and engage in (free) sports of all kinds, some of which you might not have been exposed to in a HS setting. Not to say these aren't found in HS, but they very present and available in public school. and band. and clubs. and student gov. and various languages you parents are unlikely to know/teach... latin/spanish/german etc."

Clustering children so that 99% of their interaction is with people the same age is exactly the opposite of socialization. And it is completely backwards from the real world.

Public schools are filled to the brim with people who are 'cool' socially with their friends, and you all would view them as 'normal.' Yet, they have no idea how to comport themselves with adults or much older/younger children, or in a future business environment.

Homeschooling, done properly, gets rid of this problem, and produces young people who can feel as comfortable at a dinner party with middle-aged adults as they are at babysitting children, or going to the movies with friends. The homeschooling crowd actually can have a far more diverse understanding of the world than a kid who is never exposed to anything but teen pop culture and other teens. Who cares their exposure is to white teens, black teens, hispanic or asian teens...or if they are knowledgeable about both country music and rap. Those are minimally important - as they are all limited to the bubble of the teenage world. That is not reality, and has almost no value for growing into a sociable adult.

Public schooling doesn't even have a chance at that because the model is fundamentally flawed. Many homeschoolers don't make the most of their opportunity, but the public school system doesn't even really offer one. To make public high school graduate a responsible, sociable person through a public school requires unbelievable parenting effort and skill outside of class. They have to undo all that the kid learns 8-10 hours a day.

That, and the educational comparison isn't even worth making, as high-school educated stay-at-home moms, on average, blow the public school system out of the water. It's not a fair contest - the model is better.

And no, I wasn't homeschooled. But I will be homeschooling.

Invariably, people become like their environment, and this is especially true with children. Surround them with teenagers, and they will be trained to act and think like teenagers. And that's not a school's job. This is why there are legions of 25 year-old college graduates who may make a lot of money (or not), still play video games all day, have no meaningful, stable relationships outside of family (drinking buddies, hobbie companions, and an occasional steady girlfriend do NOT count), and refuse to take responsibility for their actions. It is also why the whole concept of "office drama" exists - our adults are nothing but big children, and it's partly because they are trained, socially, to be and stay children because they are clustered with their own, irresponsible kind 10 hours a day for 12 years.

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 1:47 PM. Reason : a]

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 1:48 PM. Reason : a]

7/30/2008 1:42:17 PM

Quote :

"Homeschooling, done properly, gets rid of this problem, and produces young people who can feel as comfortable at a dinner party with middle-aged adults as they are at babysitting children, or going to the movies with friends."

Are you suggesting that parents can't teach those things to their public schooled children if they so choose? Or that ALL homeschooled children are automatically exposed to people of different age groups? I know you included "done properly" but you could just as easily say "public school, done properly..." right?

Quote :

"That, and the educational comparison isn't even worth making, as high-school educated stay-at-home moms, on average, blow the public school system out of the water. It's not a fair contest - the model is better."

Do you have any sources on that?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's a pretty strong claim.

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 8:12 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2008 8:11:42 PM

Chew on this a while,

http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp

It reflects what I have observed in homeschooling circles, the kids tend to do very well academically. I guess I can see why educators find this threatening. Dirty little secret; professional educators and their unions are the real threat to education in this country. There are plenty of folks with lots of knowledge who are prevented from serving in public schools simply because they have not jumped through the hoops put forth by the NEA and other such scandalous organizations. Imagine the horror if we learned that education classes are no indicator of success in teaching. Homeschooling is just one of many great examples of what is wrong with the current structure of our schools. It illustrates that all the bloated excess can be surmounted by the simple care and effort of a common housewife (gasp. an untrained person what right have they to educate!!!)

Also I thought this was funny,

Quote :

" bottombaby I will admit that as a licensed public school teacher , I have a biased view of homeschooling. But as a result of being a licensed teacher and accredited tutor, I have interacted with more than just a few children who were/are homeschooled. A lot of parents who homeschool have to seek out services like Sylvan or private tutors because they simply aren't qualified to teach certain material. I am not an expert on homeschooling and I do not claim to be, but I feel that I have an informed (though biased) opinion."

You do realize that forming an opinion of homeschoolers on the basis of those you run into is a dangerously narrow viewpoint. Wait, were you homeschooled?

Also, did any public school students make use of Sylvan?

You accuse homeschoolers of taking a narrow viewpoint and proceed to argue by anecdote against the movement? Really?

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 10:06 PM. Reason : ^^ stands up and claps, well said.]

7/30/2008 10:04:36 PM

Public school sucks, but it's the fire where Americans are forged. I wouldn't trade my shitty public school for a better education at home

7/30/2008 10:37:37 PM

i read that, and it seems impressive. I will seek out some of those studies to read for myself. Can you point me to any sources not being paraded by the Home School Legal Defense Association? I'm not trying to comment on the fact that they are obviously slightly biased, I will read the studies for myself and decide if they seem to be well conducted. I'm just asking if you know of any other sources for me to look into off the top of your head.

A big thing for me, which even that site doesn't seem to consider, is that the real problem may not be Home School vs (other type of schooling) so much as parent involvement. How do the home schooled children fare compared to children that go to public or private school who's parents are actually involved in their education? With home schooled kids it's almost a guarantee that the parents are involved, even if they aren't actually teaching the student themselves. In my experience, most parents of public school children aren't very involved in their child's education at all (many seem to want to leave everything up to the schools, which I don't believe is reasonable). I believe that (parent involvement) can make the biggest difference. Both academically and socially, no matter which way you go.

7/30/2008 10:45:02 PM

^^ Agreed. I think I would have gone insane if either of my parents had homeschooled me.

Quote :

"There are plenty of folks with lots of knowledge who are prevented from serving in public schools simply because they have not jumped through the hoops put forth by the NEA and other such scandalous organizations."

Yes, this is what I'm going through now and it's not just a US problem

Quote :

"The homeschooling crowd actually can have a far more diverse understanding of the world than a kid who is never exposed to anything but teen pop culture and other teens."

I don't know what kind of high schools you've been checking out but I have no idea what you're talking about. If you are only exposed to teen pop culture and other teens, it sounds like your parents are doing a shitty job, not the schools.

7/30/2008 11:30:26 PM

I used this article from the Cato Institute for a short paper I wrote way back in ENG 101:

http://www.netzwerk-bildungsfreiheit.de/pdf/From_the_extreme_to_the_mainstream.pdf

I couldn't find the original on the Cato site; this seems to be the 2nd edition, while I used the first. It's a better and unbiased view at homeschooling, including surveys and research done outside of the HSLDA.

7/31/2008 12:55:59 AM