okay, i cant believe im here again, but if hooksaw got suspenders for reacting against the "Conservative Atheist Shoots Up Christian Church" thread...

i think that's a little harsh.

i mean, he *was* being attacked on all sides, in what i think was a pretty unfair way.

I mean, I don't think i wouldn't have lost my head over it (it is just the internet, after all), but i can see why he might.

while he "should" rise above it, i think the persecution has gotten pretty one-sided against him, at least in that thread.

7/28/2008 10:11:58 PM

It wasn't that he retaliated so much as how he retaliated. That was a pretty profanity laced post he led off with. Then when everyone starting trolling the fuck out of him he posted the penis picture. Not the best way to handle it. Although I agree he is attacked a lot, but not necessarily unprovoked. He sticks his nose in a lot of threads though, so he's definitely gonna get smacked around a little bit. He needs to learn how to handle it because he usually gives as well as he receives.

7/29/2008 12:22:36 AM

penis picture? oh.... well, i missed that part.

whatever, while i agree there does have to be a boundary for TSB, I still think it was a little unfair of an attack on him. i mean, no matter what you think about him, he's not like that guy who pulls a mass shooting at a church, for chrissakes. that's a pretty hardcore accusation to level on someone.

for everyone to gang up on him like that, i think maybe he was trying to shock/offend you guys as much as he was shocked/offended by the accusation that he was just like some crazy mass murderer.

at least the worst instigators should be suspended along with him.

wasnt moron suspended too? did someone other than Duke let him out?







[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 12:42 AM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 12:27:30 AM

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 12:28 AM. Reason : dp]

7/29/2008 12:27:51 AM

7/29/2008 8:14:11 AM

Quote :

"at least the worst instigators should be suspended along with him."

oh did they all post NSFW pictures too?

if (post = nsfw)
   if (section <> chit_chat)
      suspend(user)

7/29/2008 8:14:39 AM

he deserved this suspension a lot. his reaction was only slightly understandable - there was no reason for him to go to that extreme.

he just needs to learn to chill out. he'd be much more liked here if he learned how to confront people in a sane manner rather than calling them names and launching into a tirade of cursing whenever someone even slightly insults him or his 'reasoning.'

7/29/2008 8:16:29 AM

you have to realize the dude is like 60 years old...so if he hasn't figured that out by now i don't think he's gonna change his ways now.

7/29/2008 8:18:22 AM

FREE HIM!!!!

Seriously. I mean, like Schmoe said, the attacks on him have gotten gratuitous and dull. If we're going to start censoring dick-pictures why don't we start censoring dick-ish comments? Neither are exactly "safe for work" if your boss is literate.

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 10:27 AM. Reason : ``]

7/29/2008 10:24:37 AM

it wasnt censoring dick pictures...there is no need for NSFW content to be posted at all in TSB, period

7/29/2008 10:29:21 AM

^ says you, non-TSB mod. But your opinion is worth about as much as mine (zilch). If that's the way Duke wants to run his show, that's cool. But I respectfully disagree w/him.

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ``]

7/29/2008 12:23:50 PM

he deserved a short suspension for the NSFW pic in a non Chit Chat thread

but the thread was also baiting him which should also be discouraged in non Chit Chat threads

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 12:32 PM. Reason : 68,000]

7/29/2008 12:31:47 PM

^ aye, i could live with them rules.

7/29/2008 12:34:50 PM

Quote :

"says you, non-TSB mod. But your opinion is worth about as much as mine (zilch)."

actually you are wrong. my opinion counts just as any other mod's
we do moderate outside of our appointed sections when needed and the mod group openly discusses these issues in our forum.

in other words i can suspend anyone at anytime in any section.

7/29/2008 12:42:33 PM

Quote :

"there is no need for NSFW content to be posted at all in TSB, period"

I was under the impression that NSFW was pretty much only supposed to be in Chit Chat. So suck it socks

7/29/2008 12:44:16 PM

gunzz,

Would you really step over Duke's rules to impose your own sense of order or protect your ego? Let's see....

Duke created the TSB smackdown thread for the express purpose of pointless shit talking. His rules. Should you obey them?
http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=500208&page=11

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 12:57 PM. Reason : ``]

7/29/2008 12:56:18 PM

seriously, less than 24 hours for hooksaw and a perm ban for liusclues when hooksaw is a repeat offender and pissed off a lot of people? this is not right.

free liusclues

7/29/2008 1:18:50 PM

Plenty of people have been ganged up on worse than hooksaw was, and they manage not to bug out. It's the internet for Christ's sake. He's pretty brutal with his insults, and he's leveled them at a lot of people. You've got to reap what you sow, man.

I got the impression that the initial comment was more an afterthought than anything else.

7/29/2008 1:29:16 PM

So the thrust of the free-kooksaw argument is that he was the victim of cyber bullying, and therefore was justified in posting a wiener picture?

If that's the standard, every thread on TWW will have wieners.

IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?



[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2008 1:42:50 PM

Quote :

"Plenty of people have been ganged up on worse than hooksaw was, and they manage not to bug out."

in TSB? lately? who?

7/29/2008 1:46:46 PM

anyone who responds directly to hooksaw? i've had him lash out at me on several occasions.

7/29/2008 1:47:47 PM

^you've had one person lash out at you? not exactly the same as being ganged up on

seriously...tell me one person in TSB who has been ganged up on more than hooksaw

or GrumpyGOP could tell me someone since he was the one who claimed "plenty of people"

7/29/2008 1:51:23 PM

You, Chance, salisburyboy, megaloman. Generally people with extremist views that refuse to debate in a decent manner, or are just batshit insane/stupid.

7/29/2008 2:02:16 PM

the quantity of the gangup on hooksaw was somewhat uncool, but hey it's the internet... the number of attackers is not the problem

however it was the nature of the attacks that was just as much out of line as posting penis pictures.

they were purely personal attacks and -- in and of themselves -- would be totally worthy of suspensions by current rules as Duke has explained and generally enforces.

If [user]TheDuke966[/user] wasnt travellign cross country by car right now, i'd be willing to bet money that he would have suspended one or more of the instigators BEFORE it even got to the penis picture.

i know i damn sure would have.

It comes down to this: if the penis picture is worthy of suspension (and ill agree that it is) then so are the instigating personal attacks that precluded it.

the reason is, we try to maintain a level of discourse that is at least superficially higher than Chit Chat.




[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 2:07 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 2:06:07 PM

Quote :

"the attacks on him have gotten gratuitous and dull."

How about

His attacks and lashing out at virtually everyone that doesn't suck his viewpoints dick have gotten gratuitous and dull.

Grumpy hit the nail on the head. Hooksaw is that old ornery ass drunk uncle you were afraid of when you were a kid. If you look at him anything but correctly, you get your head chewed off.

Aside from that, the fact that he got only 1 day suspension for posting a cock in TSB just continues to prove my point that the right leaning viewpoints get favorable treatment.

Everyone with half a brain can see this.

Quote :

"they were purely personal attacks and -- in and of themselves -- would be totally worthy of suspensions by current rules as Duke has explained and generally enforces."

Wha wha wha. Get the old geriatric a whambulance. I've had dicksaw post "bald" in a reply to me before I ever said anything insulting to him. He's a bitch (see previous comments). He got 1 day anyway, so get off your soapbox.

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 2:11 PM. Reason : a]

7/29/2008 2:10:18 PM

The fact that hooksaw is the most-abusive user in the SB isn't really debatable. No one lashes out like him, and no one swears like him.

So to use personal attacks as an excuse to post his porn in a SFW thread is lame.


[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

7/29/2008 2:16:59 PM

Someone does even need to be advesarial to Hooksaw and he'll start throwing out insult after insult in their direction.

All it takes is a simple refutation of one of his posts and he riding the bus to Dorothea Dix.

7/29/2008 2:19:31 PM

okay, i will agree that the penis picture was suspension-worthy.

and i'll be the first to admit that hes often behaves like a combative lunatic at the least bit of provocation.

but in this case, he was attacked without provocation, in a manner that was purely personal and had no redeeming value per our somewhat-subjective quality criteria for TSB posts

so i'm saying if he was suspended for overreacting, then others should have been suspended for attacking in the first place.

that is all.






[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 2:48 PM. Reason : oh, and he's out now? well... never mind then. move along.]

7/29/2008 2:42:44 PM

And his attacks on people are always provoked and always have a redeeming value to them.

7/29/2008 3:01:03 PM

Quote :

"but in this case, he was attacked without provocation, in a manner that was purely personal and had no redeeming value per our somewhat-subjective quality criteria for TSB posts"

Don't you get what we are telling you? He had it coming. Period. Take just about every thread he ever posts in, sum up all the asshole reactions he has to just about anyone that has ever posted, and you have more hate and angst than was contained in that thread. This much can't be debated.

This sequence is basically a summation of how big of an asshole he is

kwsmith2

Quote :

"I knew the phrase because I love Safire, but you would be correct that I had no idea how to spell "nabobs" and looked that up. Anytime there are no grammatical or spelling errors in my post you can bet it was checked against google."

dicksaw

Quote :

"Ah, an honest man--my respect for you has increased tenfold!"

And if you pay attention to the TSB (which, I'm guessing you kinda don't), you can tell that hooksaw has held a certain sort of disdain for kw for awhile now. Now, I don't think that a PHd holding professor of econ should necessarily be given a free pass on the authority scale for anything econ he were to post in here, but, I'm generally going to take it as sound. Not ole hooksaw. He's fucking acted like kw's professor status didn't mean shit. And for that, he can fuck off. Bitch.

7/29/2008 3:06:26 PM

i pretty much agree with the way all the mods run things now a days

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 3:13 PM. Reason : other than liusclues being suspended for so long]

7/29/2008 3:13:16 PM

Quote :

"or GrumpyGOP could tell me someone since he was the one who claimed "plenty of people""

You generally do. salisburyboy generally did. steve9194 always did. That guy was a fucking nazi -- literally, wanted to ship all the blacks back to Africa and all the Jews to God-knows-where. And even the god damned fascist had the good sense not to throw a bitch fit.

Of course, it's also worth pointing out that he wasn't really ganged up on in the thread in question, at least until the dick picture. Exactly two people had said something negative about him up til that point.

Quote :

"then so are the instigating personal attacks that precluded it."

How do you figure? There were exactly two negative statements about him before the dick picture -- moron's original statement, and ParksNrec agreeing after hooksaw's initial bitchfit.

If one statement offending someone is going to be cause for suspension then I, for one, quit the internet.

"Oh, but it was so bad, they compared him to a serial killer..." Bitch, please. If I had a dollar for every time someone on this site -- yes, including SB -- said I looked like a child molester, I could make rent this month no problem. Meanwhile, plenty of other posters have been compared to some of the worst mass murderers in history. And you know what? Most of us manage to handle it without having a goddamn aneurysm.

Quote :

"but in this case, he was attacked without provocation, in a manner that was purely personal and had no redeeming value"

OK, there was a line tacked on as an afterthought to the OP. It was an insult. This is done all the time. And Duke's position has always been you can throw around insults as long as your post has some substance, which it did -- it described a news incident with ideological ramifications.

7/29/2008 3:25:16 PM

Quote :

"salisburyboy generally did. steve9194"

oh, the good old days.

i miss them

7/29/2008 3:29:40 PM

Oh, and I didn't even realize that hooksaw has a history of this:

message_topic.aspx?topic=440553

Quote :

"He bared the fact that he cannot get riled up without posting inappropriate pictures..."

7/29/2008 3:32:26 PM

Quote :

"gunzz, Would you really step over Duke's rules to impose your own sense of order or protect your ego? Let's see.... Duke created the TSB smackdown thread for the express purpose of pointless shit talking. His rules. Should you obey them?"

to protect my ego? are you retarded? if a user gets out of line like hooksaw did with the NSFW content then yes...i would do the same thing spooky did. suspend the user and post about it in the suspended users / why? thread in the mod forum.

spooky suspended the user and then turned it over to Duke. this has nothing to do with obeying Duke's rules. His rules were set up for the TSB rowdies...not the mods.

If Duke had/has a problem with other mods stepping in he would say something about it either to the moderator directly or indirectly in our forum b/c Duke is that type of guy.

wow

7/29/2008 4:38:54 PM

^ You totally misunderstand my post and missed the point I was making. Click the link for clarification.

PS* So do the the mods have their own forum?

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 5:21 PM. Reason : ``]

7/29/2008 4:57:11 PM

PS* um, duh?

7/29/2008 6:09:30 PM

^ count the number of times gunzz mentions the mod forum in his two previous posts and re-examine my question.

Hint: Click this link for the answer.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm

7/29/2008 6:13:33 PM

^ oh. lol. well, whatever. i dont have a hardon for gunnz, so i dont maintain statistics on his posting style.


To: Everyone,

BEFORE THIS THREAD ENDS ... I want to make my last observation...

I didnt know about the penis picture when i made this thread, it had already been deleted. so all i saw were the furious attacks on hooksaw.

i didnt realize that many (most?) of them were IN RESPONSE TO the penis picture, which i never saw. Even after i was told about the picture, i didnt really connect that the flurry of attacks against him were coming after the picture had been posted.

If those were inital attacks against Hooksaw, they would be out of bounds.... but IN HINDSIGHT, if i had known about the penis pic, my "care factor" would have been somewhat less than the required amount to push me into making this thread.

thanks for your consideration, have a nice day!








[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 6:26 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 6:20:05 PM

Quote :

"Don't you get what we are telling you? He had it coming. Period."

No, he didn't. That's the whole fucking point here. TSB is supposed to be above that bullshit. That's why the personal attack merits as much of a suspension as the dick-pic. If you want to make fun of hooksaw, then go do it in Chit Chat. That's partially what CC is for. TSB isn't for people to come in and make a topic whose sole purpose is to personally attack one user. And make no mistake, that's what that topic was. The reference to hooksaw was supposed to look like a passing comment, because that's why the thread was made in the first place: to make that snide comment.

7/29/2008 6:20:05 PM

you know, this is the problem when moderators delete posts.

if that penis picture had been Hooksaw's first or second response, and then 95% of the personal attacks could be show to be clearly AFTER the picture had been posted...

then i dont think anyone here would give two shits if he were suspended for a week.

but since you mods, in your rush to "protect" us all from errant penises, go and delete shit like you do, it gave the appearance that hooksaw was being brutally attacked for no reason.

that editing shit you do really sucks. and i wish y'all would cut it the fuck out.



[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 6:32 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 6:31:26 PM

So are you giving away the upgrade version or the full install license? Also, is it the commercial/retail licensing or is it an education/limited license? What OS versions does it support?

7/29/2008 7:46:42 PM

[Edited on July 29, 2008 at 8:17 PM. Reason : ]

7/29/2008 8:12:51 PM

Did I actually get you there for a second?

7/29/2008 9:45:54 PM

I don't get all the bullshit about personal attacks. It's like every post in TSB that has personal attacks. Thats par for the course. As long as there's content with the attack, it seems to be legal. Hooksaw on the other hand, posted a VERY NSFW picture in a forum other than chit chat...which should ALWAYS results in a suspension. I don't get all the bitching. Really.

Quote :

"It comes down to this: if the penis picture is worthy of suspension (and ill agree that it is) then so are the instigating personal attacks that precluded it."

incorrect.

and ganging up? Really? There were TWO comments before the dick pic. Two comments != ganging up.

Quote :

"the reason is, we try to maintain a level of discourse that is at least superficially higher than Chit Chat."

oh come on, who do you think you're kidding. there is next to no discourse in TSB.

Quote :

" Don't you get what we are telling you? He had it coming. Period. Take just about every thread he ever posts in, sum up all the asshole reactions he has to just about anyone that has ever posted, and you have more hate and angst than was contained in that thread. This much can't be debated."

I REALLY hate to agree with Chance, but he's got a point here.

And in general, I would like to make the comment that it's humorous how people from each side of the political spectrum stick up for each other no matter what the offender did. I mean seriously, the guy posted a picture of a dick in TSB. But still, all the right wing people come in here and whine about "oh he was ganged up on" etc. And the same thing would happen if the offender was a left wing guy. No matter what was said, it's never ok to respond with a NSFW picture. Hooksaw freaked the hell out, overreacted, and fucked up. It's that simple. And he's lucky it was only ~24 hours. CHILL THE FUCK OUT OLD GUY.

7/29/2008 10:40:42 PM

^

Quote :

"it's humorous how people from each side of the political spectrum stick up for each other no matter what the offender did"

btw i said he shouldve been suspended for the pic, but if you dont see how people constantly gang up on him, you're completely ignorant to the soap box

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 1:27 AM. Reason : .]

7/30/2008 1:26:42 AM

fuck it.. i got nothing.




[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 2:04 AM. Reason : ]

7/30/2008 1:57:22 AM

I can't believe the amount of "Soap Box is supposed to be above personal attacks" that I'm seeing here.

It is,
and I want to make this perfectly clear,
the fucking internet.

To be more precise still, it's the fucking wolfweb. If you're going to have a seizure every time somebody talks shit, you need to go elsewhere.

And yes, I'm going to take advantage of every route I can to make him violate the rules again, and I believe I can do it while staying within the boundaries that have been set.

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 4:25 AM. Reason : ]

7/30/2008 4:01:58 AM

^

Quote :

"Besides, like you say, the discourse on issues is getting weaker and weaker, both on this board and in the country. You want me to get worked up in a discussion about lapel pins or some shit?"

-GrumpyGOP
http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=531510&page=1#11746793

You do realize that one reason the discourse on issues is getting weaker on this board is the frequency of personal attacks, yes?

Or do you actually just prefer the current flame-or-be-flamed state of things?

7/30/2008 6:44:12 AM

Quote :

"You do realize that one reason the discourse on issues is getting weaker on this board is the frequency of personal attacks, yes?"

you do realize this isn't a new development right? it's practically always been like that. on nearly every corner of the internet where people try to discuss political issues...personal attacks result. and as Grumpy said it's worse here than most other places.

Hell look at twista's comment above

Quote :

"but if you dont see how people constantly gang up on him, you're completely ignorant to the soap box"

It's a standard soap box insult. If you don't see/understand X, then you are [insert insult]

Quote :

"Or do you actually just prefer the current flame-or-be-flamed state of things? "

Obviously most of TSB posters do. I mean if you TRULY want intellectual discourse without all the trolling/flaming/personal attack bullshit, you need to look elsewhere. And you'll have to look hard, but I'm sure you'll be able to find something.

7/30/2008 7:41:03 AM