If, as people say, homosexuality is not a choice and is in fact genetic, it may be possible in the near future to determine the sexuality of a person even before birth.

Therefore, people would of course have the ability to choose the sexuality of their child. If it was heterosexual, they could choose to keep it, while if it was homosexual they could choose to abort.

What are people's feelings on this topic, should it be legal? Is it ethical?

7/30/2008 2:21:53 PM

I'm gonna say if people would be willing to have the abortion they would probably be okay with their kid being gay

7/30/2008 2:22:34 PM

It's not just religious people who wouldn't want a gay child.


And even if it was a religious person, who is to say they aren't a hypocrite? They may say they are against abortions, but if it turns out their future kid may be gay they might get one anyway and try again.

7/30/2008 2:25:42 PM

Quote :

"What are people's feelings on this topic, should it be legal?"

I'm initially inclined to say yes. But I see some attempting to declare it as a hate crime.

Quote :

"Is it ethical?"

Some argue that even using the ability to determine their child's sexuality isn't ethical to begin with, much less the steps that follow in your scenario. I even see some attempting to say that determining a child's (or fetus', if you will) genetic makeup could violate its rights.

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 2:36 PM. Reason : .]

7/30/2008 2:29:31 PM

Quote :

"They may say they are against abortions, but if it turns out their future kid may be gay they might get one anyway and try again."

I imagine they would just have the kid anyway and devote as much energy as possible towards suppressing any gay tendency.

7/30/2008 2:33:09 PM

i don't want my son being a fairy

7/30/2008 2:36:17 PM

I don't think this discussion is any different from the broader debate over selection via genetic traits.

And from what I've read, the broader discussion pretty much boils down to a discussion over abortion in general.

7/30/2008 2:41:07 PM

Quote :

"I'm gonna say if people would be willing to have the abortion they would probably be okay with their kid being gay"

I dont agree with this at all. Two completely different things.

I would say I am against pre-birth genetic munipulation/identification for the purposes of deciding to abort or keep a baby for any reason. Very slippery slope....for evolutionary sake, nature needs to take its course. We cant just go Spartanizing every fetus we find a flaw in. Would any of us be here?

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 3:51 PM. Reason : . ]

7/30/2008 3:50:13 PM

KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

7/30/2008 3:51:13 PM

Quote :

"We cant just go Spartanizing every fetus we find a flaw in. Would any of us be here?"

Obama would be here

7/30/2008 3:57:49 PM

lol

gg

7/30/2008 4:03:44 PM

there are no flaws

only God's artistic choices


...put that in your tea and sip on it for a while

7/30/2008 4:10:47 PM

Perhaps here's a more relevant spur discussion - if, instead of simply the abortion option, genetics also lead us to a "fix" for the "gay gene" which would revert it back to the "heterosexual" gene. What are the ethical implications of this?

(Note that I am not trying to inject a normative flavor to this - i.e., there's nothing to "fix" in being gay per se, but the point is that this is something some parents would choose to alter in their children, for whatever reason.)

[Edited on July 30, 2008 at 4:12 PM. Reason : Addendum]

7/30/2008 4:11:26 PM

saying homosexuality is genetic is naive. To the best of current medical knowledge, it is primarily due to hormonal factors in the womb. This is strongly evidenced by the heavy heavy influence (increasing chance by factors of 2 or 3) on birth order on prevalence of homosexuality.

There is no valid gene pool argument for this. If a gay dude has a kid, that kid is just as straight as any other kid aside from out-of-the-womb environmental factors. Yeah, gay people don't have kids as often because, well... they're not attracted to the opposite sex, and parents who want grandkids could use this as an argument.

Other than that, the only reason they would want to abort the kid is because they're homophobes like most of the nation. This isn't fucking down syndrome here. A gay kid doesn't require special attention or help, it's not a 'disability'. The parenting experience would only be damaged because the parents can't tolerate something that doesn't fit their image of a family.

It would affect the number of GI Joes vs. Barbie dolls you buy - that's about it. If abortion carries zero emotional difficulty to you, then go ahead and kill the fetus because it's gay.

7/30/2008 4:12:35 PM

Quote :

"it's not a 'disability'"

some would argue that...hell some homosexual people might argue that it is because of the stigmas and the complications fitting in.

7/30/2008 4:21:04 PM

Yadda yadda yadda. We shouldn't need to go into all the research and logical reasons why the gay lifestyle isn't healthy for you both physically and emotionally.

Besides, why are we worried about people aborting children because of a gay gene? A lot of people already abort their children for the most mundane reasons. Much less genetic "flaws".

7/30/2008 4:59:58 PM

You don't have to justify aborting your child to anyone. Dressing it up like it's not a terrible act is pointless.

Most disabilities place some burden on the parents. If a child is deaf, they probably have to learn sign language and find special schools. If the child is autistic, it's like a 24/7 job just to deal with it. What do you have to do for a gay child? Many shown clear expression of the gay even early in life. But what do the parents have to do? Be supportive? Oh noes.

The stigmas and the complications are something the child deals with themselves. Hell, by the time they grow up, you might be able to get a gay marriage in every state. While I've known some gay people that were horribly depressed, I've know others who were pretty God damn happy and gay, I remain less than convinced that compared to straight people, gays would be better off not born.

You wouldn't be doing it for the child.
You wouldn't be doing it to avoid terrible family distress.
You would be doing it because gay just doesn't click with your ideals.

7/30/2008 5:03:53 PM

Are you gay?

7/30/2008 5:18:01 PM

But people have abortions all the time for all kinds of reasons. Maybe they don't think they are ready to have kids yet, and having a kid at 20 doesn't suit their ideal picture of their life.

Well maybe having a gay kid who won't give them any grand children also doesn't suit their ideal picture of their life.

Besides, if we are seriously going to argue that a fetus isn't a human being, then who cares whether it's being discriminated against, right? It's a woman discriminating against her own body, right?

7/30/2008 5:22:34 PM

I almost would want a gay daughter just cause I wouldn't have to worry about nearly as many dude's trying to get in her panties

7/30/2008 5:24:11 PM

too bad they cant find a gene for whores/sluts

7/30/2008 5:26:50 PM

Quote :

"A gay kid doesn't require special attention or help, it's not a 'disability'. "

Fuck that i would be embarassed if all my buddies kids were out playing soccer, while my son was playing with a jump rope and the easy bake oven

7/30/2008 5:29:01 PM

^ I really hope you don't have children. At all.

7/30/2008 5:31:21 PM

Quote :

"Fuck that i would be embarassed if all my buddies kids were out playing soccer, while my son was playing with a jump rope and the easy bake oven"

I don't think you would have to worry about it.

It's freaking SOCCER, of course your gay kid is going to want to play it.

7/30/2008 5:35:56 PM

lol

7/30/2008 5:42:02 PM

Quote :

" I don't think you would have to worry about it. It's freaking SOCCER, of course your gay kid is going to want to play it."

Says this guy:

7/30/2008 5:47:44 PM

where's that shirt from Abercrombie and Fitch lol GAY

7/30/2008 6:22:48 PM

Quote :

"I really hope you don't have children. At all. "

he is just being honest. honestly, i would RATHER my children not be gay, although it would not affect my feelings for them.

7/30/2008 6:39:23 PM

I think if you proved beyond a doubt that being gay was genetic it would eliminate some of the anti-gay sentiment out there for people who dislike it because they think it a bad "choice"

Quote :

"while my son was playing with a jump rope and the easy bake oven"

Being gay doesn't force you down a path stereotypical path so you shouldn't have to worry about that. For the record I'm gay, played soccer, and never came near an easy bake oven.

Quote :

"in the near future to determine the sexuality of a person even before birth." "could choose to abort"

Not everyone could afford the test. I think many anti-gay people would tend towards being anti-abortion. It’s not proven to be %100 genetic. It could be a complex combination of many genes and many other factors such that tests will never be reliable.

While it is interesting to ponder being the last generation of a kind, I don't think this long term trait of our species is going away any time soon.

7/30/2008 8:21:52 PM

not in the perverse culture we live in

7/30/2008 8:56:19 PM

This thread makes me think of Gattaca. Soon we'll be labeling people invalids and shit and determining the course of the rest of their lives based off of their DNA.

7/30/2008 11:19:33 PM

^At least that would get rid of the fags though, right?

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason : ?]

7/31/2008 10:33:14 AM

Who would want a gay kid? Even if you don't believe that there's anything wrong with being gay, would you want to have a child that had to go through all the bullshit that is involved?

7/31/2008 11:36:32 AM

Quote :

"For the record I'm gay, played soccer, and never came near an easy bake oven."

the rainbow for added effects.

7/31/2008 11:48:50 AM

Quote :

" Even if you don't believe that there's anything wrong with being gay, would you want to have a child that had to go through all the bullshit that is involved? "

The bullshit the child goes through isn't because they're gay, it's because of society's perception of gays.

I thought you were going to say something about passing on your genetic legacy or something, but you're an idiot if you don't want a gay child because of the "bullshit." That's like saying a black person shouldn't want a black child because of the bullshit.

The sad truth is that there are a number of conditions your kid could be born with that are not desirable. Your kid just plain being ugly is going to cause him as much problems as being gay. Or if you gave him a goofy name. There's lots of things you can want in a child, or not want, but you can't and shouldn't be able to choose them if they don't have a direct effect on the child's health.

7/31/2008 11:53:48 AM

^^ Unnecessary. The guy was being matter of fact about his homosexuality in a gay thread which is much appreciated given the current level of secrecy from certain posters here. We don't need you to dumb this section down with trite gay stereotypes and references.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 11:55 AM. Reason : ^^]

7/31/2008 11:54:45 AM

If gays were fully accepted into society, I would think that the inability of gays to reproduce without outside help would be about the only reason to not want to have a gay kid.

They can adopt or borrow someone elses womb, but I imagine there might be some emotional strain involved there.

I dont have any evidence to back that up, so gay dudes feel free to chime in.

7/31/2008 12:42:39 PM

well, plenty of people already have a problem with gay adoptions.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=llZuoMXpr4s

But yeah, if i was gay, had an available surrogate, and wanted a kid. I'd probably just tell the government to go fuck itself.

And hey, if we can detect/alter the course of nature on this subject, imagine, gay people having gay children. Not too long and San Francisco can just forget about traditional sexual reproduction altogether.

If you have a problem with that, you should have a problem with straight people aborting gay fetuses.

7/31/2008 1:10:41 PM