Well, I woke up to two good news stories this morning. I know that all you negative nancys will bitch and moan about something, but:

The economy is STILL growing (2%), even with all the problems,

and U.S. monthly deaths in Iraq are at the lowest since the invasion.

7/31/2008 10:49:37 AM

did you check the number of deaths in Afghanistan? those are apparently increasing at a similar rate to what Iraq is decreasing.

7/31/2008 10:58:27 AM

Quote :

" Growth weaker than hoped; economy shrinks in Q4 By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer 44 minutes ago WASHINGTON - The country didn't get the energetic rebound in economic growth hoped for from the government's tax rebates in the second quarter, and the economy jolted into reverse at the end of 2007, raising new recession fears. ADVERTISEMENT The Commerce Department reported Thursday that gross domestic product, or GDP, increased at an annual rate of 1.9 percent in the April-to-June period. That marked an improvement over the feeble 0.9 percent growth logged in the first quarter of this year and the outright contraction in the economy during the final quarter of last year. Still, the second-quarter rebound wasn't as robust as economists had hoped; they were forecasting growth at a 2.4 percent pace. The pickup, while welcome, isn't likely to be seen as a signal that the fragile economy is growing healthier. There are fears that as the bracing tonic of the tax rebates fades, the economy could be in for another rough patch later this year. On Wall Street, the Dow Jones industrials were off nearly 75 points in morning trading following two days of gains. The health of the economy is the top concern of the public — and by extension politicians including candidates vying for the White House. GDP contracted by 0.2 percent, on an annualized basis, in the last three months of 2007, according to annual revisions released by the government. That contraction reflected the deepest cuts in 26 years from builders clobbered by the housing slump and cautious spending by consumers spooked by all the fallout. The fourth-quarter's dip marked the worst showing since the third quarter of 2001, when the economy was last in a recession. The government's previous estimate for the final quarter of last year was in positive territory — but not by much — at an anemic 0.6 percent growth rate. GDP measures the value of all goods and services produced within the United States and is the best barometer of the country's economic fitness. A pickup in consumer spending and brisk sales of U.S. exports abroad figured prominently in the second-quarter improvement. Consumers boosted their spending at a 1.5 percent pace in the second quarter. That was up from a 0.9 percent growth rate in the first quarter and marked the best showing since the third quarter of 2007 when the economy was still performing strongly despite the severe housing slump. Billions of dollars in tax rebates, the centerpiece of the government's $168 billion stimulus package, spurred consumers to spend in some areas, a major force shaping overall economic activity. Spending on furniture and household appliances went up, while people cut spending on cars. Meanwhile, sales of U.S. exports grew at a 9.2 percent pace in the second quarter, up from a 5.1 percent growth rate in the first quarter. The weak dollar has made U.S. goods cheaper to foreign buyers, helping to bolster exports. Government spending also helped second-quarter GDP. The housing slump continued to take a bite — although a smaller one — out of overall economic activity. Builders cut back on residential projects by 15.6 percent, on an annualized basis, in the second quarter. That was not as deep as the 25.1 percent cut made in the first quarter or the 27 percent annualized drop in the final quarter of 2007. Businesses showed caution in other areas. They trimmed spending on equipment and software and they reduced investment in inventories in the second quarter. An inflation gauge tied to the GDP report showed all prices galloping ahead at a rate of 4.2 percent in the second quarter, the fastest pace since the end of last year. However, when energy and food costs are stripped out, all other — or "core" — prices rose at a pace of 2.1 percent, down from a 2.3 percent rise in the first quarter. Still, the second-quarter's core inflation reading is outside the Fed's comfort zone. Given mounting inflation fears, the Fed in June halted a nearly yearlong campaign of rate cuts to shore up the economy. It is expected to hold rates steady again next week. Boosting them too soon to fend off inflation could hurt the economy and the already crippled housing market. A trio of crises — housing, credit and financial — have badly bruised the economy. In response, employers have cut jobs for six months in a row, bringing total losses this year close to a staggering half-million — 438,000. The Labor Department reported Thursday that layoffs rose sharply last week. New claims filed for unemployment insurance jumped to 448,000, the highest in five years. The faltering labor market is keeping a lid on wage pressures. Wages and benefits paid to U.S. workers, meanwhile, rose a moderate 0.7 percent in the second quarter, the same growth as the prior quarter. It was the lowest in two years, the department said in another report. With more job cuts expected for July and in coming months, there's growing concern that many people will pull back on their spending when the bracing effect of the tax rebates fades, dealing a blow to the shaky economy. These worries — along with the negative GDP in the fourth quarter of last year — may rekindle recession fears. There's been a lot of debate about whether the economy is on the brink of, or has fallen into, its first recession since 2001. Under one rough rule, if the economy contracts for two straight quarters it is considered to be in a recession. However, that didn't happen in the last recession — in 2001. The unofficial determination, made by a panel of academics at the National Bureau of Economic Research, usually comes well after the fact. The panel takes into account economic activity, as well as employment, income and other things. As part of the annual revisions, the government marked down growth in 2005, 2006 and 2007. Last year the economy grew by 2 percent, the weakest showing since 2002. The revisions are based on more information as well as improved methodologies."

7/31/2008 11:00:25 AM

Quote :

"The economy is STILL growing (2%), even with all the problems,"

It's interesting, the NBER may still claim a recession despite having a positive GDP.

7/31/2008 11:05:19 AM

You could lay out all the positives in the world to some people and they would still hate the USA and come up with false facts and ideas. These people are emotionally damaged individuals who see no good in anything.

7/31/2008 11:10:36 AM

translation: Shit isn't as bad as we thought it was going to be, but shit still fucking sucks. So less throw a huge party to talk about about we don't suck as a much as we thought we did even though we still suck, but not as much.

7/31/2008 11:12:29 AM

Quote :

"You could lay out all the positivesnegatives in the world to some people and they would still hateblindly support the USA and come up with false facts and ideas. These people are emotionally damaged individuals who see no goodharm in anything."

7/31/2008 11:13:04 AM

What on earth does this have to do with loving or hating the USA?

7/31/2008 11:13:44 AM

Let's see all the positives in the world

I want a bulleted list

7/31/2008 11:14:06 AM

^^^^

7/31/2008 11:16:21 AM

I forgot some of you only like shitty/depressing news. "WAHH WAHH!!! the world is soo aweful!!"

7/31/2008 11:26:35 AM

Please don't post in the soap box if you don't have anything useful to say. There are enough of us here fulfilling that role already.

Btw, here are some bits of that good news you were talking about, from

http://tinyurl.com/68abnx

Quote :

"The economy was held back by the crumbling housing market and by the biggest drop in inventories in seven years. Investments in equipment and software also fell during the quarter. Annual revisions in the report also showed that the economy contracted in the fourth quarter of 2007, falling 0.2% for the first drop in real gross domestic product since the recession of 2001. The economy grew at a revised 0.9% annual rate in the first quarter. See full story on the revisions. It's increasingly likely that the private National Bureau of Economic Research will declare that a recession began in the fourth quarter, said Joseph Brusuelas, chief economist for Merk Investment. Inflation ticked higher. The personal-consumption-expenditure price index rose at a 4.2% annual rate, while core prices -- which exclude food and energy -- rose 2.1%, not far above the Federal Reserve's implicit target zone. The economy is in a perilous state, said Joel Prakken, chief economist for Macroeconomic Advisers, ahead of the report. The impact of the stimulus checks is positive but fading, he said, while businesses are cautious, and credit remains tight. The key for the second half may be energy prices, which have retreated in recent weeks on expectations of weaker global growth. If energy prices remain high or head higher, consumers will be strapped, he said. "Looking forward, there is little to be positive about," wrote Brusuelas. "Personal consumption will in all probability decline and the external sector looks to be in the process of slowing down. The data supports our long term call of a 'W' shaped recession." In other reports released Thursday, the Labor Department said initial jobless claims jumped by 44,000 to 448,000 as a surge of people applied for additional benefits recently granted by Congress. See full story. "

Great news huh?



[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 11:39 AM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 11:27:40 AM

Ignoring the bad news only makes you complacent

7/31/2008 11:37:27 AM

ARRRGGGHHH, THE WORLD IS SO FULL OF AWE!

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 1:11 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2008 1:08:54 PM

Who said anything about ignoring bad news? YOU are the ones that ignore any positive news. Some of you people are soo fucking negative about everything. No matter WHAT happens, you will find something to bitch at.

"Iraq troop deaths are down, but who cares because Afghan troop deaths are up! WAHHH!!"

"The economy grew, but who cares because there's a housing crisis! WAHHHH!!"

I swear, I can't imagine some of the lives you guys must live, bitching and moaning all day about everything, get a life.

7/31/2008 1:33:21 PM

I swear, I can't imagine some of the lives you guys must live, posting threads all day about everything, get a life.

7/31/2008 1:35:47 PM

Where is there anything interesting or fun about discussing positive (or seemingly positive) news?

Hey guys, what were doing is working, wanna talk about it?

No, keep doing it.


The sad thing is, you trotted out the 2% number like it really is good news when it really isn't.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 1:37 PM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 1:37:00 PM

i think bigger news is inflation combined with stagnation in most wages.

7/31/2008 1:37:27 PM

This is good news.

7/31/2008 1:42:40 PM

Quote :

"The sad thing is, you trotted out the 2% number like it really is good news when it really isn't."

Actually, with the housing crisis, financial crisis, energy prices, and all the media talk about a recession, 2% growth IS good news. But keep ignoring that, you wouldn't want t have a positive outlook on anything...

7/31/2008 1:54:53 PM

I have a family to care for and work for a company that is getting smashed (among other things) by the weak dollar, so you'll have to forgive me if I don't pretend like nothing is wrong with the state of the US Economy.

When you get off your mamas teat and have to fend for yourself and others in the real world, you'll take a more pragmatic view of things as well.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 2:08 PM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 2:03:44 PM

I would say I started fending for myself when I worked full time and payed my own way through school without loans or grants. So STFU. I don't know what the big fucking deal is. Nobody said there aren't problems, nobody said we should ignore negative things. I posted ONE positive thread and 10 wolfwebers proceeded to bitch and moan. WAHHHH

7/31/2008 2:50:30 PM

You aren't very bright, are you?

7/31/2008 2:53:00 PM

Nothing constructive to say? Thought so.

7/31/2008 3:01:43 PM

Have they cut your salary troletracks?

Growth is a good thing my friend.

7/31/2008 3:03:30 PM

Growth is not a good thing to some people, because then they have one less thing to blame all their problems on.

7/31/2008 3:06:04 PM

Quote :

"Have they cut your salary troletracks?"

Just laid off 20% of our site so far.

To be fair, the slowing economy isn't the biggest thing effecting my company, but it might make the difference in us returning to profitability versus having to close the doors.

Quote :

"Nothing constructive to say? Thought so."

What do you mean? You used your ability to work through school as some sort of anecdote related to the current economy. Why should I bother with anything constructive to that - plus everything else you posted in this thread which is revealing that nothing you post should get even a passing consideration? Your opening post included this:

Quote :

"I know that all you negative nancys will bitch and moan about something"

Then cried when we delivered on your expectations?

This thread was troll bait, you got your wish, and now you're complaining about it?

Quote :

"Growth is not a good thing to some people, because then they have one less thing to blame all their problems on."

rofl. Are you retarded? I WOULDNT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS IF THE ECONOMY WEREN'T SLOWING.



[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 3:12 PM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 3:09:49 PM

Quote :

"I...work for a company that is getting smashed (among other things) by the weak dollar"

How? Maybe I am just not as creative as reality, but how can an American company be smashed by a weak dollar? Are you an importer? I'm sure it is possible, I would just like to know your current mechanism so I can use it as an example later. Thank you in advance

7/31/2008 3:12:13 PM

My company is based in the EU.

7/31/2008 3:12:56 PM

Quote :

"You used your ability to work through school as some sort of anecdote related to the current economy"

Umm....No, I pointed that out because you told me to "get off your mamas teat". You just assumed I was dependent because I don't sit around and bitch and moan about everything.

7/31/2008 3:19:13 PM

So are you saying the EU economy is bad right now, or is it an issue of repatriating profits to the EU earned in the US? If that is the case then a weak dollar can only turn a profitable venture into a less profitable venture, never a losing venture. That is why so many American companies are being bought up by Europeans: the weak dollar makes earning money in America cheap for foreigners.

7/31/2008 3:22:25 PM

Not sure if you read this or not

Quote :

"To be fair, the slowing economy isn't the biggest thing effecting my company, but it might make the difference in us returning to profitability versus having to close the doors."

We are in the position we are in mostly because of our own doing. We're behind our competitors in terms of cost. However, the slowing economy has put a damper on our sales, and the weak dollar is also eating into the margins. On our own merits, we could survive and return to profitability once we get caught up to our competitors, but the slowed economy and weak dollar are almost choking us before we even get to that point.

Quote :

"weak dollar can only turn a profitable venture into a less profitable venture, never a losing venture."

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

7/31/2008 3:27:30 PM

I am seeking back-story. The business is owned in the EU, are the workers being paid in dollars? Are your customers paying you in dollars?

For a weak dollar to make you unprofitable, you must be paying your bills in Euros and getting paid by your customers in dollars. Is this the case?

7/31/2008 3:32:56 PM

Quote :

"For a weak dollar to make you unprofitable, you must be paying your bills in Euros and getting paid by your customers in dollars. Is this the case?"

I believe this to be the case. We have FE fabs in the US, EU, Asia, BE sites in the EU and Asia, and again based in the EU. A piece of the company is an American subsidiary with its own CEO traded in ADRs on the NYSE. I honestly don't know how the stuff goes onto our books depending on which fab it came from, or if that even matters?

I'm just a lowly engineer, don't quote me on the finances.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 3:44 PM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 3:42:41 PM

Phil Gramm was right.

7/31/2008 3:45:36 PM

Phil Gramm is the reason why we are in such a debacle.

7/31/2008 3:47:48 PM

Ok, based on what you have said, your EU sites are losing big money, your Asian sites are potentially losing money, and your US fabs are rolling in the money. It could be that your EU employees cannot be laid off fast enough so your US sites, regardless of how much money they are making, are being cut for lack of money.

7/31/2008 3:48:58 PM

Quote :

""You could lay out all the positivesnegatives in the world to some people and they would still hateblindly support the USA and come up with false facts and ideas. These people are emotionally damaged individuals who see no goodharm in anything.""

There are some people who see positives and some who only see negatives. Positive people see harm just like the negative people do. The difference is that positive people maintain faith during turbulent times, while negative people don't have anything to support them. It doesn't matter what the US does, some people (mainly liberals and far-left people who want the govt. to do everything for them) will always complain. This is why they love Obama because he's talking about change. They don't care if change is good or bad they just want something different because they think they are getting screwed, when in fact they are just lazy or not smart enough to make the right moves to get out of what they are in.

This is why I don't like big companies to begin with. They treat employees as numbers and you are basically working to make them money.

7/31/2008 4:00:36 PM

Get the fuck out of here with that Chit Chat shit.

7/31/2008 4:02:18 PM

Yes because everyone who wants to vote for Obama wants the government to do everything for them and we're all just miserable because we don't have faith, except when we have faith in Obama

I have made plenty of good choices but that doesn't change the fact that John McCain would probably fuck the country completely

7/31/2008 4:09:41 PM

it's nice to know that conservatives never complain about anything in America

7/31/2008 4:10:27 PM

Can we please not entertain obviously retarded comments with anything resembling consideration?

Maybe if the retards get ignored enough, they'll go away.

7/31/2008 4:11:03 PM

I don't want bigun20 to go away he is amazing

7/31/2008 4:11:51 PM

Quote :

"Ok, based on what you have said, your EU sites are losing big money, your Asian sites are potentially losing money, and your US fabs are rolling in the money. It could be that your EU employees cannot be laid off fast enough so your US sites, regardless of how much money they are making, are being cut for lack of money."

I'm not sure of exact percentages, but I think the ballpark would be the EU and Asia fabs producing 40% each of our volume with the US fabs producing 20%.

7/31/2008 7:07:19 PM

Someone saved a bunch of money on their car insurance by switching to Geico?

7/31/2008 7:28:59 PM

trole what industry are you in? Sounds interesting. Do you get to travel overseas?


Ok, back on topic. The news tonight is saying that things are still bad because the economy grew at a lower rate than expected? This boggles my mind. The growth doubled from last quarter. They even had one guy on there saying we are in a recession. Where do they find these idiots. Im not saying things are peachy, I just dont think they are as bad as people are making them out to be.

7/31/2008 7:32:09 PM

i just watch CNN whenever i'm home and it depresses me. i guess i'm a sucker for sensationalism though. i wouldn't watch it if it was all happy news.

7/31/2008 9:16:24 PM

Many news outlets exploit economic data simply because recession news sells. It also doesn't hurt that it's an election year, which makes it more likely you'll hear politicians claim they are able to rid our economy of the business cycle.

7/31/2008 10:44:46 PM

you just saved a bunch of money on your car insurance by switching to Geico?

8/1/2008 1:09:24 AM

The economy sucks pretty hard right now, but I've decided to quit listening to doom-sayers no matter who is in charge. The damn thing is cyclical. It's not always roses and blowjobs for everybody. Sometimes it just stinks. I'm completely resigned to the idea that there isn't jack-all we can really do about that fact.

As to Iraq, the big concern is that the only reason violence is down is that the Mahdi Army got told to stand down and regroup. As soon as they get told to fight again, it will go right back to being shit. I think it's possible to beat them down for good, but that doesn't mean I count on it. And, as has already been mentioned, Afghanistan is going to a hell in a handbasket after such a long tenure as our military occupation golden child.

8/1/2008 4:26:56 AM