Seriously what's the deal? There is definitely not a lack of talent as Lee Corso pointed out that the ACC has had the most 1st rounders over the past few years out of any conference. Watching Clemson getting drilled by Alabama right now and VT losing to ECU today is really disappointing as a fan of this conference.

8/30/2008 9:41:24 PM

Swofford?

8/30/2008 9:43:29 PM

too much talent front loaded?


basically several badasses per team, but then a lot of shitheads? nothing in between?



not saying thats it, just thinking outloud

8/30/2008 9:43:37 PM

Jaybee, you nailed it.

8/30/2008 9:44:08 PM

UNC apparently is struggling right now with McNeese State. 21-20 UNC in the 3rd.

8/30/2008 9:47:49 PM

fuck unc-ch scored its 21-20 unc-ch



[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM. Reason : .]

8/30/2008 9:48:39 PM

Clemson is getting crushed
VT got beat by ECU
Duke, UNC and Maryland are all getting CLOSE games from 1-AA schools...UMD beat Delaware 14-7, UNC was losing in the third quarter, and Duke is tied in the 2nd
We got crushed


Great football conference

8/30/2008 9:49:46 PM

still gotta see what Florida state and Miami got. .... maybe they'll live up to their old reputations


watching clemson get absolutely molested by an OK Bama team just makes me wonder what the hell's in the water

8/30/2008 9:55:07 PM

Mississippi State is losing to Louisiana Tech right now 22-14 with just a few minutes left in the 4th. So I guess even the SEC has embarrassing losses as well, but not as many as ours, and they also have more quality wins usually.

8/30/2008 10:01:15 PM

^ that one isnt that surprising, a lot of "experts" had Miss. State losing outright

8/30/2008 10:01:57 PM

Really I thought they were supposed to be building off of their success from last year and were poised to get to another bowl. Certainly they shouldn't be losing to La Tech.

8/30/2008 10:03:40 PM

ACC football has shut down GoPack.com

8/30/2008 10:03:56 PM

^^ just a bad matchup for them

Quote :

"This has all the makings of a big upset with a fired up program at home against an offensively challenged team"

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:11 PM. Reason : d]

8/30/2008 10:04:39 PM

maybe the clempson failboat is sailing in reverse

by the end of the year they'll be gunning for a shot at the annual ohio state embarrassment game

8/30/2008 10:09:38 PM

when do the supporters stop supporting these teams? all these renovations, $ spent, etc

when does it all end?

it's like the democrats control the ACC,

"well, you guys suck, but we are going to level the playing field by massive facilities renovations and promotions"

"well, you still suck, so we are going to ask for more"

"well, you continue to suck, so we are going to play SEC teams that own us"

next, their will be rules that better teams cannot do certain things because they might offend the poorer skilled teams.

at this post

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:14 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:15 PM. Reason : n]

8/30/2008 10:12:07 PM

I would point to coaching

New coaches in the past few years for Ga Tech, Miami, duke, unc, State, BC....Bobby Bowden is old as hell (Paterno syndrome appears to have set in), Tommy Bowden is reknown as being a coach who will blow easy games, Friedgen is struggling at MD, and not sure what's up with UVA, but they overperformed last year & I was never sold on Al Groh to begin with

that leaves Jim Grobe at Wake & Beamer at Va Tech as the only guys who have been at their schools for awhile w/o questions concerning their future (and Va Tech is in a rebuilding year, at that)

8/30/2008 10:15:38 PM

good point, the SEC has had very little turnover in coaching over the last 5 years

8/30/2008 10:23:51 PM

but is that a chicken and the egg type thing?


high turnover because the teams have been bad? or teams are bad because of high turnover

8/30/2008 10:27:19 PM

^^5 years isn't an issue, I'm talking 2 years...5 years is plenty of time as the coach has already had his own recruiting class graduate

Plus the new coaches brought into the SEC are a little higher caliber than the Paul Johnson's, Cutcliffe's, & Jagodzinski's that the ACC bring in. No knock on those 3 coaches, but they aren't on the same level as recent SEC hirings like Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, & even Petrino


\/ yeh, cause the academic standards at Wake are killing them

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:31 PM. Reason : v]

8/30/2008 10:29:45 PM

i don't think the acc has had more coaching turnover than the stronger conferences - but are academic standards lower in a conference like the SEC? That could be a school by school issue, but im not well versed on this -

I would have to think after years of hearing bs that the academic standards of the acc greatly outweigh those of the SEC

but i don't know about the big 10

8/30/2008 10:30:12 PM

^ no, thats not it... Wake Forest is higher than all others aside from Duke and they are doing fine... and thats all a wash. For example, it came out during the Gerald Willams decision that the SEC has the hardest restrictions for Juco transfers of any BCS conference. They require classes that others do not.




[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:34 PM. Reason : d]

8/30/2008 10:32:18 PM

I don't know about the rest of the acc but Miami surely doesn't suck

8/30/2008 10:32:47 PM

^^ i would consider wake an anamoly

they have a coach who is unlike most and would rather be a big fish in a small pond than pursue a team like TX, AL, or OSU

go deacs, they are my 2nd team...

grobe has turned down many other considerations to remain at wake, and should be commended for it, he does more with less than any coach in the conference

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:35 PM. Reason : ]

8/30/2008 10:34:15 PM

^USC has higher restrictions than most ACC schools as well though & I don't think it's hand-cuffed them too badly. What about Stanford? I think Cal has pretty high academic standards also

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : C]

8/30/2008 10:35:42 PM

yeah, and ND. And it doesnt hold back the ACC in bball, so thats not it

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:36 PM. Reason : d]

8/30/2008 10:36:11 PM

Quote :

"I don't know about the rest of the acc but Miami surely doesn't suck "

Until their 25+ point beatdown in Gainesville...

8/30/2008 10:37:09 PM

I mean the talent is obviously there as evidenced by the amount of ACC players getting drafted. So I'm at a loss as to what the issue could be other than coaching.

8/30/2008 10:37:42 PM

Quote :

"too much talent front loaded? basically several badasses per team, but then a lot of shitheads? nothing in between? "

once again, not sure thats it or not... I know the ACC has been tops in FIRST round picks lately, but what about overall playes taken in all rounds?

[Edited on August 30, 2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason : d]

8/30/2008 10:38:06 PM

well, its not the academics, its not the players (based on the drafts)

so what is it?

coaching must be it:

tommy sucks

beamer sucks

obrien sucks

grobe does not suck

everyone else is gay

8/30/2008 10:49:25 PM

coaching and the lack of quality quarterbacks

8/30/2008 10:51:08 PM

BUT IT FEELS SO GOOD WHEN YOU SEE CITADEL NORTH CAROLINA STATE AND SOUTH CAROLINA STATE UP AHEAD IN YOUR SCHEDULE

8/30/2008 11:00:52 PM

Thanks for the heads up Brent.

8/30/2008 11:01:49 PM

ESPN hates your conference, that is, unless you hate your conference, then ESPN loves your conference.

8/30/2008 11:03:37 PM

If you like roses, ESPN shits on roses.

8/30/2008 11:04:46 PM

Well you've got to give O'Brien time. Look at what he did at BC. I'd say right now the perception is that he doesn't suck and that he just has to get his players in. Remember after taking over the BC program that was marred in scandal, his first two years were mediocre with back-to-back 4-7 results. The next year he went 8-3 in the regular season, which included a win at Notre Dame. We shouldn't expect him to break out until he can get his players in. I've liked what I've seen from the few freshmen that have played so far. Also the RS-Freshmen are looking pretty good too. O'Brien and staff are bringing them along and soon we'll be one of the more experienced teams in the ACC. I know Beecher sucked, but at least our guys were adjusting to the ball well. Our defense just got tired, b/c the offense sucked so bad. Also it seemed like our coaches were playing more 2nd and 3rd string guys toward the end of the 4th quarter. I began hearing guys names on tackles that I knew weren't starters or even on the 2 deep.

8/30/2008 11:16:34 PM

This is a real gem here. Look for some good analysis and objectivity within.

http://www.thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=495293

8/30/2008 11:19:03 PM

the clemson board on rivals is on suicide watch

http://clemson.rivals.com/forum.asp?fid=129

Quote :

"What a beatdown. Embarrassing. Reply I'm totally disappointed in the Tigers. Totally embarrassing, devastating loss, not only for the Clemson Tigers, but for the whole ACC. This game was over by the end of the First Quarter."

Quote :

"As Public Enemy once sang Reply DONT...DONT....DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE"

Quote :

"Your entire conference crapped its pants today Reply faaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrt pooooooooooop ACC: "BAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I POOPED MY PANTS BAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWW I am so pathetic, waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!""

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason : s]

8/30/2008 11:56:05 PM

Quote :

"I would point to coaching"

I agree with this. I think the other conferences have better coaches top to bottom, there is no way to really prove this, just my opinion.

Also, the rise of USF and UCF have really changed the ACC. All ACC schools use to split up the florida talent, especially Miami, and FSU. Obviously Florida would get there players, but Florida had enough to go around for those 3 schools. Now you have UCF and USF relevant and in the mix. That hurts the top end of the ACC, and trickles down to affect all the schools because the conference is weaker in general.

8/30/2008 11:59:26 PM

I think we are getting some upgrades in coaching. Tom O'Brien while staying in the conference will be at a school with better potential to win big due to better facilities, more available funds for recruiting, a more rabid fanbase, and a much more fertile recruiting ground. Who knows if Butch Davis will get UNC to a BCS bowl, but they will be better than they have been. Paul Johnson could have gone to a lot of BCS programs and probably could have gone to a place better than GT. He will field competitive teams there. He is a good coach and teams will have a tough time preparing for his offense. Cutcliffe will bring Duke up a little. They will at least be on Vandy and Northwestern's level and not be the worst BCS conference team out there.

The jury though is still out on Jagawhatever and Shannon. Randy Shannon though has gone out and gotten one of the best recruiting classes last year. The talent he will be bringing in could help mask any coaching deficiencies he may have for a little while until he either learns or gets fired.

I think Groh, Tammy, and Fridge need to go. UVA overachieved last year b/c of some lucky breaks. Groh had some great recruiting classes early on and really underachieved with them. Fridge isn't doing so well now that he has his own players. Tammy has great recruiters around him but can't coach worth a damn unless his back is against the wall.

8/31/2008 12:39:55 AM

quarterback play

8/31/2008 12:43:53 AM

Quarterback play comes back to coaching though.

8/31/2008 12:51:22 AM

its none of those things


its the lack of a solid offensive line to start with.

without a line you have no running or passing game.


no one in the ACC minus say BC last year had a decent Oline to speak of from LEFT TO RIGHT

without that, you cant win games...then if they dont have that, the Defense cant do much either...Vtech has won last year because of their high turnover ratio.


a few years ago the ACC was pulling in quality linemen throughout and getting it done

now its not happening, they are going to other schools aka the SEC

8/31/2008 12:52:31 AM

Yeah I don't think the coaches in the ACC are bad by any means, and I think the new hires at the school you mention will be good in the long run, but for now you look up and down the SEC and it is like holly shit, that is a lot of good coaches.

It is a combination of things, but I think 1 - coaching, 2 - more pressure on the top recruits 3 - acc expansion.

In general, the league expansion has also been detrimental to the acc in both football and basketball. Without it, the Big East wouldn't have been forced to expand and cause a domino effect that has spread more top end east coast recruits out to more schools.

^ that is a product though of coaching and recruiting. A good college coach knows how to recruit and what to recruit.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 1:01 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2008 1:00:20 AM

Hopefully the offensive line recruiting will pickup for the ACC (or at least for State).

ACC High School Offensive Line Recruiting In 2008 (Scout ratings):

OTs
Antoine McClain - **** - #9 - CU
R.J. Mattes - **** - #11 - NCSU
Nick Becton - *** - #29 - VT
Patrick Neumann - *** - #31 - BC
Benjamin Jones - *** - #37 - UM
Mike Goodman - *** - #39 - BC
Andrew Datko - *** - #44 - FSU
Andrew Wallace - *** - #50 - NCSU
Michael Via - *** - #51 - VT
Phil Smith - *** - #56 - GT
T.J. Barnes - *** - #59 - GT
David Spurlock - *** - #71 - FSU

Pretty terrible overall. No 5* guys. UNC, UVA, WF, DU, and UMD didn't even get a highly rated OT recruit.


OGs
Vinston Painter - **** - #4 - VT
Omoregie Uzzi - **** - #9 - GT
Dalton Freeman - **** - #13 - CU
Brandon Washington - *** - #14 - UM
Matt Sanders - *** - #16 - CU
Kenneth Page - *** - #19 - CU
Joe Looney - *** - #21 - WF
Brian Moore - *** - #41 - DU
Jonathan Cooper - *** - #42 - UNC
Zach Allen - *** - #51 - NCSU

There are less 5* OGs usually so it's ok that none came to ACC schools. Clemson was the only school that did a good job recruiting multiple highly rated offensive guards. FSU, UMD, UVA, and BC didn't get any highly rated OGs.


Cs
Nik McRae - *** - #8 - GT

There aren't many centers that have high rankings 3* or higher, but you'd think the ACC schools would have signed more than just one. In fact there weren't even any 2* centers that went to ACC schools. I guess a lot of coaches like to bring in OGs and teach them how to be effective centers.

8/31/2008 1:26:09 AM

which proves my point

go back 3 or 4 years and you will be REALLY shocked, there are only one or two good prospects each tyear that are going to ACC schools on the line.

now look at SEC schools...top to bottom they are getting some dern good kids that are highly ranked.

the truth of the matter is...we just arent getting those guys and THAT is what it takes. and you can blame it on coaching or whatever...but it comes down to the O line.

the ACC has some great coaches...we just dont have the players. its not about X's and O's its about Jim's and Joe's.

given that, expect the ACC to be on the rise in the next 2-3 years as some of the good OL have started to trickle into the ACC, especially on the 2009 class the list of these kids are starting to see a lot of ACC teams...which means the foundation will be being built.


[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 1:36 AM. Reason : g]

8/31/2008 1:29:44 AM

The good coaches will find the players to match the system and make it work. It is a combination of the x's and o's with what the coach wants to get done on the field. Looking at Wake Forest, they are getting the right players for what they are trying to do.

It is easy to just say we need better line play, you can always get better at that position, everyone knows the game is won in the trenches on both sides of the ball. I just took it as a chance to look deeper into why we weren't getting those players, you don't get to be a college coach and forget that you need a good offensive line.

8/31/2008 1:35:49 AM

no but if you dont have a history of getting good guys and developing those kids into somethind special, chances are youre not going to get those guys in the future. Kids are gonna go to where they know the guys ranked as high as them have gone in the past and performed well and went to the next level.

until that mindset changes it wont be any different.

so i guess it does come down to coaching in a way...but at the same time, it factors a LOT more into it.

fanbase support, facilities, prior players, relationships with high school coaches, location to kids home, win loss record...

I still dont care WHAT you say, O line is what makes or breaks a team when it comes to being a powerhouse year in and year out or just an occasional flash.

and that my friends is where the Amato team left us hanging. im not bashing him, im just stating the obvious.

2-3 years the ACC will be back to the powerhouse...it always shifts every few years.

8/31/2008 1:40:09 AM

Quote :

"its not about X's and O's its about Jim's and Joe'"

OK Lou Holtz

8/31/2008 2:07:51 AM

Quote :

"it's like the democrats control the ACC,"

wtf?

ok, i'll bite...

It's really like the Republicans control the ACC, "You all suck and the condition of your programs is a mess, but we're making a shitload of money so all is well"

Seriously, the conference has been in a money grab for years, and as a whole hasn't really felt the need to improve because financially they're not seeing a difference between playing good football and bad football. This'll change once talk starts of us losing our BCS bid, but until it looks like it'll affect the ACC's pocketbooks you're not going to see a whole lot of improvement.

[Edited on August 31, 2008 at 8:49 AM. Reason : .]

8/31/2008 8:38:33 AM

Overall QB play has been horrendous.

The overall coaching seems somewhat suspect - other than Bowden (who is over the hill), Beamer, and Grobe, who really stands out? Friedgen had early success but they leveled off significantly, Groh has turned UVa into a middle of the road/mediocre program at best. Paul Johnson, we'll see how well the triple option works at GT. Tammy has never won more than 9 games with some loaded teams (on paper). The jury is out on Jags at BC, Shannon at Miami, Cutcliffe at Duke (who is a significant upgrade for them and will do well, for Duke), O'Brien at State and Davis at uncch.

Lots of schools are rebuilding, and it takes time. VT lost a lot of talent, other programs have stagnated, others are starting anew, which makes for a very weak league.

8/31/2008 9:21:25 AM