http://www.pickensplan.com/

What is all this about compressed natural gas? What are the pros/cons of using it?

9/2/2008 11:33:50 PM

I like the nuclear / drill drill drill / and wind ideas he presents.

Well thought out, and I'm sure it would keep many billions of dollars within our borders.

He's a huge proponent of natural gas as well.

9/2/2008 11:38:58 PM

Now that oil's bubble has burst (gobal economy slowing down), once it is under $100 a barrel, everyone will be buying SUVs again....

[Edited on September 2, 2008 at 11:52 PM. Reason : s]

9/2/2008 11:46:03 PM

yep. One of the guys where I work has an F250 that he hasn't driven all summer, because he went out and bought an older model honda civic. All last week and this week, guess what he has driven to work?

9/2/2008 11:48:08 PM

Pickens is a nut, at least concerning wind energy.

If you want to take the extreme we need to cover 0.6% of the Sahara desert with solar panels. That creates enough energy for the entire world. Hop to it!

9/2/2008 11:53:24 PM

^ no, he's not. With the current subsidies for wind energy, his plan likely makes sense.

Now giving out those subsidies in the first place... you'd be saying congress is crazy. Most of us already don't disagree with that.

9/3/2008 12:08:47 AM

Trust me, there's plenty of land in the Great Plains for the windmills. Texas already has 5 GW's worth (3% of the state's power) in place, with room for far more than that.

9/3/2008 7:45:01 AM

Quote :

"Pickens is a nut, at least concerning wind energy. If you want to take the extreme we need to cover 0.6% of the Sahara desert with solar panels. That creates enough energy for the entire world. Hop to it!"

Have you read the details of his plan at all?

9/3/2008 8:53:38 AM

Cons may include trading "big oil" for "big wind" but this time, "big wind" has eminent domain powers:

Quote :

"Simply put, Pickens’ pitch is “embrace wind power to help break our ‘addiction’ to foreign oil.” There is, however, another intriguing component to Pickens’ plan that goes unmentioned in his TV commercials, media interviews and web site -- water rights, which he owns more of than any other American. Pickens hopes that his recent $100 million investment in 200,000 acres worth of groundwater rights in Roberts County, Texas, located over the Ogallala Aquifer, will earn him $1 billion. But there’s more to earning such a profit than simply acquiring the water. Rights-of-way must be purchased to install pipelines, and opposition from anti-development environmental groups must be overcome. Here’s where it gets interesting, according to information compiled by the Water Research Group, a small grassroots group focusing on local water issues in Texas. Purchasing rights-of-way is often expensive and time-consuming -- and what if landowners won’t sell? While private entities may be frustrated, governments can exercise eminent domain to compel sales. This is Pickens’ route of choice. But wait, you say, Pickens is not a government entity. How can he use eminent domain? Are you sitting down? At Pickens’ behest, the Texas legislature changed state law to allow the two residents of an 8-acre parcel of land in Roberts County to vote to create a municipal water district, a government agency with eminent domain powers. Who were the voters? They were Pickens’ wife and the manager of Pickens’ nearby ranch. And who sits on the board of directors of this water district? They are the parcel’s three other non-resident landowners, all Pickens’ employees. ... Earlier this year, Texas changed its law to allow renewable energy projects (like Pickens’ wind farm) to obtain rights-of-way by piggybacking on a water district’s eminent domain power. So Pickens can now use his water district’s authority to also condemn land for his future wind farm’s transmission lines. Who will pay for the rights-of-way and the transmission lines and pipelines? Thanks to another gift from Texas politicians, Pickens’ water district can sell tax-free, taxpayer-guaranteed municipal bonds to finance the $2.2 billion cost of the water pipeline. And then earlier this month, the Texas legislature voted to spend $4.93 billion for wind farm transmission lines. While Pickens has denied that this money is earmarked for him, he nevertheless is building the largest wind farm in the world."

http://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20080731.html

yeah yeah, not the greatest of sources, but there's plenty of other folks out there with the same information, this just happens to have it all summarized in one place.

\/ Don't worry, Texas gave him the power to take land, NIMBY isn't an issue.

[Edited on September 3, 2008 at 9:44 AM. Reason : slk]

9/3/2008 9:41:29 AM

I think his plans sound reasonable. I do wonder what sort of precedences will be set as the mass deployment of windmills begins to collide more and more with NIMBY sentiments and government land-use regulations (Department of Interior environmental regulations for instance).

9/3/2008 9:42:04 AM

Just from reading that snippet, I don't get how he can take land. He can take it to lay a pipe over it, or put up towers to run wires upon?

I'd rather we put to work folks in the US to generate and distribute energy made in the USA than to ship our dollars to a bunch of fucking oil conglomerates that don't give two shits about us.

9/3/2008 10:15:32 AM

True, for now, he can't take land, just force you to allow him to install his power lines and pipe lines. But I find myself concerned with granting governmental powers to any private citizen, regardless of how little or how much. And while I agree that working with folks here in the US would be a better use of government money than foreign companies, it's better to trade with foreign companies in fair business dealings than waste public money on making private citizens rich. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for letting private industry make this happen, but government leg ups aren't free market, or fair, or right.

9/3/2008 10:27:01 AM

Quote :

"I'd rather we put to work folks in the US to generate and distribute energy made in the USA than to ship our dollars to a bunch of fucking oil conglomerates that don't give two shits about us."

So, what you are saying is you would rather force US citizens to work lower paying job generating energy than have them making airplanes and financial services for export?

If you stop exporting dollars then you put out of work those Americans who job it was to import dollars. You are not helping Americans, you are making T.Boone Pickens and his politically connected cohorts richer by making other Americans poorer. Stop it.

9/3/2008 10:50:02 AM

Quote :

"So, what you are saying is you would rather force US citizens to work lower paying job generating energy than have them making airplanes and financial services for export?"

How much is our security worth? You seem to forget the two towers that fell nearly 7 years ago now. I'm not a globalist like you. Countries have shown historically to not like working together, especially when resources get scare. If I have to pay a little more for wind energy to get away from the oil barrons in the Mideast, I'll be happy to do it.

I'd love to see you break down the economics of how much less we'd be paying these wind workers.

Capitalism is slow as hell. I don't buy the line the because we don't have the wind power yet must mean it is a lot more expensive than oil per unit energy to produce.

Quote :

" If you stop exporting dollars then you put out of work those Americans who job it was to import dollars. "

Rofl, it's been happening for years anyway.



[Edited on September 3, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason : rofl]

9/3/2008 11:21:08 AM

Quote :

"Capitalism is slow as hell. I don't buy the line the because we don't have the wind power yet must mean it is a lot more expensive than oil per unit energy to produce."

Slow as hell, but still faster than the government.

And yes, it doesn't just mean that it's more expensive to produce (even though it is), it also means that wind power is unreliable (what happens when the wind doesn't blow) and requires a significant investment in both hardware as well as infrastructure. An investment that doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now. Unless you happen to have the governmental powers of eminent domain to bolster your company's investment.

9/3/2008 11:38:24 AM

My favorite thing was when they mandated that corn be diverted to use in auto fuel. That was epic fail.

Corn prices went through the roof and gas prices did not come down.

9/3/2008 11:56:48 AM

Quote :

"Slow as hell, but still faster than the government. And yes, it doesn't just mean that it's more expensive to produce (even though it is), it also means that wind power is unreliable (what happens when the wind doesn't blow) and requires a significant investment in both hardware as well as infrastructure. An investment that doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now. Unless you happen to have the governmental powers of eminent domain to bolster your company's investment."

You mean, didn't make a lot of sense when oil was $20 barrel? Let's just leave the eminent domain argument out for now. That is a separate (sorta) issue from the economics.

9/3/2008 12:00:50 PM

No, it didn't make sense when electricity was 4 cents a kw/h. Oh wait; electricity is STILL 4 cents a kw/h. Or were you thinking of putting windmills on your car?


[Edited on September 3, 2008 at 6:43 PM. Reason : pic]

9/3/2008 6:41:28 PM

Ok, I just read a critique and I flip flopped. Sorta.

9/3/2008 9:29:27 PM

I disagree with Picken's plan b/c regardless of how great it is wind power = FAIL.

game over

9/5/2008 1:29:36 AM