as being 'something the country can not afford'-the McCain/Palin camp-and Greenspan pretty much sets financial rates in which help run U.S. various markets......is this the 'change' McCain is referring to?

Greenspan by the way, is an independent who voted for Bush in 2004, and now is backing Obama due to his strategic economic plan: and I for one trust Alan Greenspan's logic then any one party, that's why I will be voting for Obama/Biden in Nov. 08 as well!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080913/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

9/13/2008 5:14:51 PM

not this fruitcake again

9/13/2008 5:16:10 PM

Greenspan wasn't a very good administrator.

His job and weather forecasting are jobs that you can be wrong 100% of the time and not be punished.

9/13/2008 5:16:33 PM

attn users with less than 1500 posts

9/13/2008 5:16:34 PM

..... Greenspan is largely credited by many people to be the reason the entire housing boom/bust happened because of some Fed decisions he made back in 2002-03

9/13/2008 5:17:27 PM

^ pretty much. whoever is in charge needs a longer term outlook/decision making ability.

9/13/2008 5:37:49 PM

yeah

someone like Sarah Palin

her economic plan is GREAT!

9/13/2008 5:50:00 PM

actually this law is responsible for the entire housing boom/bust

EDIT: search for "Home Ownership Expansion Act of 2001" at http://thomas.loc.gov/home/multicongress/multicongress.html

it was hurried though congress and was tagged onto the bill right before it was to be voted upon. It created mortgage backed securities and included no oversight or regulation on them.

If you want to say that Greenspan caused the credit implosion you'd have to say it was because he wanted to keep the interest rates on treasury bonds very low so that fund managers looked for other sources of income. That other source happened to be mortgage backed securities.

If you'd like to hear a simple, yet good explanation of it, listen to :

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1242



[Edited on September 13, 2008 at 6:33 PM. Reason : removed and added link]

9/13/2008 6:18:38 PM

Whatever. Greenspan is an idiot and has done an outstanding job to date with the economy.

9/13/2008 6:26:15 PM

Just flip your burgers and keep your mouth quiet and it'll all be ok, champ.

9/13/2008 6:34:40 PM

9/13/2008 6:37:24 PM

greenspan was amazing

9/13/2008 6:41:00 PM

Quote :

"that's why I will be voting for Obama/Biden in Nov. 08 as well"

you sure its not because Obama is black?

9/13/2008 6:50:39 PM

yeah that must be it.

9/13/2008 6:51:39 PM

^^ It's because John McCain is white! Fuck you whitey.

9/13/2008 6:57:15 PM

^ racist!

9/13/2008 6:59:02 PM

i am voting for john mcain because he is white, even though i am a tremendous liberal

9/13/2008 7:00:58 PM

Cue the picture of the white kid yelling "That's racist!"

9/13/2008 7:02:01 PM

I'm voting for Obame because he's black.

9/13/2008 7:33:22 PM

Quote :

"..... Greenspan is largely credited by many people to be the reason the entire housing boom/bust happened because of some Fed decisions he made back in 2002-03 "

THE reason? really? the single thing that caused the subprime crisis? really?
your posts on tech talk are usually seem pretty on point. this one, not so much.

9/13/2008 8:38:03 PM

You left out the rest of his qoute wolfood... "without cuts in spending"

Which is what needs to happen.

9/13/2008 10:09:04 PM

Whatever happened to, I don't know, using THE SOAP BOX

9/13/2008 10:31:35 PM

Quote :

"THE reason? really? the single thing that caused the subprime crisis? really? "

ok, obviously not "the entire reason". that was a bit of hyperbole.
but i mentioned it because this thread happened to be about Greenspan. Obviously the housing issue is larger and more complicated than one person or one topic. Overall, I was referring to the point zep made about Greenspans decision in i think 2003 where he basically cut off foreign investment into US T-bills by keeping the interest rate too low and told them to go take their money elsewhere. So combine foreign investment flooding into the US real estate market with the clusterfuck of dead bills, de-regulation and lack of oversight, and that's how you get to where we are now.
Greenspans is "the reason"? no. Does he shoulder as much of the blame as any other single person could? Probably.

9/13/2008 10:37:33 PM

^^ my thoughts exactly

[Edited on September 13, 2008 at 10:38 PM. Reason : Soap Box!]

9/13/2008 10:38:33 PM

oh, sorry, is a real discussion getting in the way of the normal piles of shit that clog up chit chat?

9/13/2008 10:41:08 PM

McCain has hinted at sweeping reforms in entitlements (like, an entire generation having their benefits cut) to pay for his corporate tax breaks (to make america more competitive and bring jobs back) and other funds. Whether he will actually dare to go there remains to be seen.

I've got a forthcoming MBA paper on the economic agendas of both candidates scheduled to see the light of day in a month or so, and I'm already frickin' tired of this year's politics.

I'll also add that McCain has admitted he doesn't know shit about economics, but he has a strong chief advisor, Phil Gram.

[Edited on September 13, 2008 at 11:26 PM. Reason : .]

9/13/2008 11:17:03 PM

Quote :

"as being 'something the country can not afford'-the McCain/Palin camp-and Greenspan pretty much sets financial rates in which help run U.S. various markets......is this the 'change' McCain is referring to? Greenspan by the way, is an independent who voted for Bush in 2004, and now is backing Obama due to his strategic economic plan: and I for one trust Alan Greenspan's logic then any one party, that's why I will be voting for Obama/Biden in Nov. 08 as well!"

There's some fucked up grammar in this post.

9/13/2008 11:23:31 PM

Check your facts, kiddies.

Phil Gramm had a metric fuckton to do with the subprime mortgage crisis, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm#Banking_Deregulation_and_the_2008_Mortgage_Crisis

9/14/2008 2:41:10 AM

greenspan is the REASON we are in this mess.


and he needs to learn when to shut the fuck up, which usually happens when you are no longer in an administration.

[Edited on September 14, 2008 at 10:23 AM. Reason : h]

9/14/2008 10:23:10 AM

Hey look, Mr Grace has his head stuck up his own ass again...

9/14/2008 10:25:40 AM

hey look guys I SMOKE WEED!

im hip AND cool!

9/14/2008 10:26:44 AM

Are you seriously trying to argue against every post in this thread that has links saying Greenspan wasn't solely responsible for the housing crisis by simply stating your naive opinion that he was responsible? Because that's pretty much the definition of being an ignorant tool.

9/14/2008 10:28:53 AM

He played a part in it. How big or how small is irrelevant.

The fact of the matter is, Greenspan calls out McCain's economic plan. Great. Congrats. But Economists such as the former Fed. Reserve Chairman are often wrong, sometimes way WAY wrong. Regardless, people who don't know shit about Greenspan, but are drinking the Obama (or anti-mccain) koolaid all of a sudden start holding victory parades because an old retiree who used to print money said something that helps out "their team."

At the end of the day, if Greenspan had gone the other way, he'd have been cast aside as some stupid old man out of touch with the times. Since he agrees with your already skewed perception, you "trust [his] logic than any one party" - a notion which is absolute bullshit and only based on convenience of preexisting views.

9/14/2008 10:41:32 AM

Quote :

"He played a part in it. How big or how small is irrelevant."

So did Bush.

Quote :

"At the end of the day, if Greenspan had gone the other way, he'd have been cast aside as some stupid old man out of touch with the times."

No.

Some of you people need to get your heads out of the sand and stop blindly supporting whichever candidate your stupid ass party shoves down your throat.

[Edited on September 14, 2008 at 10:45 AM. Reason : ]

9/14/2008 10:45:06 AM

hahaha

and you can only say "no" because the fate has already been sealed in your direction.


then, in defense, you accuse the opposition of blind support.



seriously it's predictable as hell.

9/14/2008 10:47:21 AM

No.

I've already said I'm gonna write in Ron Paul. I don't know who this "opposition" you speak of is. Unless you've got it stuck in your mind that I'm a Democrat because I disagree with you.

To quote marko:

Quote :

"hot or cold black or white cat or dog coke or pepsi poop or pee"

9/14/2008 10:50:20 AM

oh i see.

you're one of those

and yes, i'm turning my nose up at you.

9/14/2008 10:53:25 AM

Quote :

"At the end of the day, if Greenspan had gone the other way, he'd have been cast aside as some stupid old man out of touch with the times. Since he agrees with your already skewed perception, you "trust [his] logic than any one party" - a notion which is absolute bullshit and only based on convenience of preexisting views."

Pretty much sums it up.


The other problem is assuming that this is a diametric system. OMG MCCAIN IS BADDD, OBAMA MUST BE RIGHT!!!! When in fact, both economic plans are equally fucked up.

The very FIRST thing listed under Obama's Economic plan is a "Windfall Profits Tax" on Oil companies to be redistributed to American Families as a $1000 Emergency Energy Rebate. The economics of that kind of unnecessary wealth re-distribution is mind-bogglingly bad. Aside from the fact that gas prices will adjust to a new higher level, essentially canceling out the effect of the tax, you'll lose money to the inefficiencies of the collection process. Nobody wins, everyone loses. That's change we can believe in.

The second is to "Provide $50 billion to Jumpstart the Economy and Prevent 1 Million Americans from Losing Their Jobs". Oh really? And where would this money come from? I'm sure we can spend our way out of the impending fiscal crisis.

FWIW, I pulled that from here: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#jumpstart

To be fair, Obama has some solid proposals as well, for instance if he could actually simplify the tax code, I'd be impressed. He won't, I seriously doubt it'll get through congress, too many corporations and big money donors have private little loopholes, but I'd respect him if he gave it an honest effort.

Look the Bush administration has been a dismal example, but again that falls into the trap that because Republican's suck, the Democrats must be great. It only works in the fucked up logic of our current political system.

9/14/2008 10:56:19 AM

Goddamn you are an ignorant asshole. I bet you were a fan of Romney before everyone figured out how fucking retarded he is.

9/14/2008 10:56:19 AM

sure, i liked romney.

9/14/2008 10:58:29 AM

Then you are the worst kind of faggot.

and yes, i'm turning my nose up at you.

9/14/2008 11:04:03 AM

this guy is terribly annoying.

9/14/2008 11:05:19 AM

Quote :

"what JCASHFAN said"

I agree.

Obama's plan is 1 part pandering and 1 part brilliance if you ignore that fact that he doesn't mention any means of raising money except to tax the rich. Some of his stuff makes no economic sense and others are pretty good.

[Edited on September 14, 2008 at 1:18 PM. Reason : .]

9/14/2008 1:17:12 PM

Funny how not long ago Republicans bowed at Greenspan's feet for being an economic genius.

Who needs enemies when you have 'friends' like Republicans.

9/14/2008 1:53:58 PM

Why is it that people expect politicians to be:

1) Moral
2) Logical
3) Loyal
4) Principled?

Its all about votes, of course the Democrats are embracing him and Republicans are nailing him to the wall. The exact opposite would happen if it had gone the other way.

It'd be cute how some people believed in the political parties if it weren't so goddamned dangerous for the country.

9/14/2008 2:05:11 PM

All I know is that McCain is at the race today, so he's got my vote for being a race fan.

9/14/2008 2:14:19 PM

and the ignorance continues

9/14/2008 3:32:15 PM

^^ wow

9/14/2008 3:37:34 PM

Oh look. The terrorist lover Wolfood is too stupid to find the Soap Box.

Again.

9/14/2008 3:38:03 PM

Quote :

"All I know is that McCain is at the race today, so he's got my vote for being a race fan. "

i hope you're kidding/trolling

9/14/2008 3:46:16 PM