http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/25/tubal.ligations.for.poor.cnn

Politician want to pay the poor $1000 to tie their tubes. I think this is awesome but of course the whiny hippy liberals and evangelists on the right are going to smash it.
No one is FORCING these poor people to do this.
The fact remains though the apple does not fall far from the tree. Perhaps if plans like this were adopted earlier people like the Wakefield gangsters would not exist.

[Edited on September 25, 2008 at 7:33 PM. Reason : ll]

9/25/2008 7:24:20 PM

want

9/25/2008 7:33:21 PM

Smells of eugenics. But it could have a huge effect on abortions, and reduce the demand on the welfare system. And poor women could be lifted out of poverty to some extent. Kind of a win-win, really.

9/25/2008 7:38:03 PM

the thing about getting the old tubes tied is that it is not some minor thing and women can still get pregnant after the surgery

and i would only agree with the policy if there is the same offer to men mainly because it is easier and less risky

[Edited on September 25, 2008 at 7:44 PM. Reason : 

9/25/2008 7:43:33 PM

Quote :

"I think this is awesome but of course the whiny hippy liberals"

Dude go fuck yourself

Nobody thinks poor people having a shitload of kids is a good idea

9/25/2008 7:44:24 PM

The question is how do we encourage the rich to have more kids?

9/25/2008 7:45:43 PM

Yeah, this is not the solution to the problem.

9/25/2008 7:46:12 PM

Quote :

"The question is how do we encourage the rich to have more kids?"

Promise them subsidies on rehab and no tax on inheritance.

9/25/2008 7:48:50 PM

i supposed you could create a "progressive" tax credit for children.

Liberals support a progressive income tax; yet our child tax credit is constant. Perhaps if we had a progressive tax credit we could scale up the amount those in the professional and upper classes get; without encouraging foodstamp moms be encouraged to have more children just to get a raise. This would push parents who are statistically more likely to raise future leaders/inventors/doctors to have children.

9/25/2008 7:50:04 PM

after watching the video, two points

1. lovely example of Reductio ad Hitlerum right off the bat.

2. does the procedure only cost $1000 or what? if so, we could use that $700 billion bailout to sterilize EVERYBODY. THINK ABOUT IT.

[Edited on September 25, 2008 at 7:52 PM. Reason : .]

9/25/2008 7:51:38 PM

do it

9/25/2008 7:52:11 PM

You're talking about placing people in the position of choosing between eating well or having some much needed short-term financial security and their reproductive capacity

Kinda fucked up if you ask me

9/25/2008 8:00:44 PM

Quote :

"Politician want to pay the poor $1000 to tie their tubes. "

Probably less than all teh welfare they'll get for pushing out more babies.

9/25/2008 8:13:10 PM

Quote :

"Probably less than all teh welfare they'll get for pushing out more babies."

who are u kidding. the target audience of this program is to dumb to do math in the first place. Otherwise they would have a job. These are the same people whose retirement plans involve winning the lottery.

9/25/2008 8:59:20 PM

I thought the whole reason abortion was wrong is that each embryo has the potential to be Einstein or Jesus, but if sterilization is a good thing because "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" then which is right? It seems to me the liberals and conservative should both be against this by their different ideologies.

9/25/2008 9:13:35 PM

Quote :

"be Einstein or Jesus,"

More like the next Tupac, Ted Bundy, Timothy McVeigh, or just a run the mill welfare queen / billy bob.

9/25/2008 9:22:28 PM

Quote :

"audience of this program is to dumb"

too, maybe?

9/25/2008 9:24:19 PM

If I recall...there was something like this (not sure if it ever actually happened or was just proposed) to give whatever that drug is that they give people who take meth or heroin, in exchange for tying their tubes

brilliant idea if you ask me

9/25/2008 9:25:11 PM

^^^ how the fuck you gonna lump those people in with Tupac???

9/25/2008 9:33:02 PM

They sold this all wrong.

Instead of "HEY POOR PEOPLE, WE NEED TO STERILIZE YOU, K?"

They should have just introduced a plan that would cover reproductive stuff for free for poor people. Equality, and whatnot... not eugenics.

9/25/2008 10:12:40 PM

Quote :

"I thought the whole reason abortion was wrong is that each embryo has the potential to be Einstein or Jesus, but if sterilization is a good thing because "the apple doesn't fall far from the tree" then which is right? It seems to me the liberals and conservative should both be against this by their different ideologies. "

that's not the problem with abortion.

the abortion debate should hinge almost totally around at what point we define human life to begin.

9/25/2008 10:28:26 PM

when people say poor

about anything

what they're really trying to say is

black

9/25/2008 10:31:00 PM

^^ I've always thought the opposite. It's practically impossible to reach a consensus on when life begins (and IMO, the most valid definition would definitively make abortion murder), the only way we'd reach a resolution (if our pols really want to solve the issue, and I don't think they do) I think is to accept it as killing, and move on from there.

9/25/2008 10:53:46 PM

Quote :

"about anything what they're really trying to say is black "

I disagree. I have no problem with skin color. I have a problem with worthless uneducated lazy sacks of fucking shit no matter race they are. Truth be told our country has been saturated with filth that merely wants a 'free-ride' and alleviate their problems on other people. I don't care if they are white, black, asian, hispanic, purple, or matrians.

9/25/2008 11:03:43 PM

Ooh hold on now: Purple? You gotta draw the line somewhere! To hell with purple people! - Unless they're suffocating - then help'em.

9/25/2008 11:07:55 PM

^^ the problem with that reasoning, as some see it, is that treating the issue that way won't actually help solve the problems with at least some of those poor, lazy sacks of shit, because of how certain groups of those poor people actually ended up being poor.

They are not a homogenous group, and treating them as such won't help to solve the problems of the group.

9/25/2008 11:10:22 PM

Quote :

"It's practically impossible to reach a consensus on when life begins "

that's why it's a debate

Quote :

"accept it as killing, and move on from there. "

that is totally fucked.

Quote :

"(and IMO, the most valid definition would definitively make abortion murder), "

Well, then, don't fucking do it if you think it's killing. Personally, I think it's ok in the super early stages with RU-486. After that, I think it's killing.

9/25/2008 11:42:55 PM

^ RU-486 prevents implantation when used properly (IIRC), which technically is different than abortion.

War is killing, death penalty is killing, those are justified. There is a distinction (obviously) between killing and murder.

9/26/2008 12:14:29 AM

i prefer the old fashioned way of helping out the poor by not taxing them as hard as we tax rich successful people.

9/26/2008 2:19:45 AM

^seriously....rich folk are the reason we are in this miss...if they are rich, aint not reason to not tax them more...not like they are going to be rich after we tax them more...problem with rich folk is they dont realize how good they have it

9/26/2008 2:41:15 AM

Quote :

"The fact remains though the apple does not fall far from the tree."

This is all I need.

You and yours are the worst thing in this country today, and I can't begin to express how happy it makes me that your like are dying out.

9/26/2008 3:44:58 AM

Quote :

"Smells of eugenics"

lolololololol...you say that like its a bad thing...

Quote :

"when people say poor about anything what they're really trying to say is black"

gtfo with this gay ass shit

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 3:47 AM. Reason : .]

Quote :

"I have no problem with skin color. I have a problem with worthless uneducated lazy sacks of fucking shit"

i hope to god you hate a shit load of white folks then

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 3:48 AM. Reason : .]

9/26/2008 3:46:49 AM

I really liked it better when you kept your retarded verbal diarrhea in chit-chat.

9/26/2008 3:48:35 AM

Quote :

"that's not the problem with abortion. the abortion debate should hinge almost totally around at what point we define human life to begin."

lololol...the abortion debate should hinge on what is right and what is wrong...and abortion is definitely right

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 3:54 AM. Reason : and lol at the whole "jesus might come back as a fetus thats abortioned"]

Quote :

"that's why it's a debate"

come on...seriously? i'm guessing you "seriously" belive that? i mean god damn...are we still in the stone age or what?

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 4:01 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 4:04 AM. Reason : am i the only one that feels like after clinton, science just kinda "slowed down" or something?]

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 4:05 AM. Reason : why dont we clone or do stem cell shit yet? i mean really]

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 4:09 AM. Reason : are religious people that nutty that they dont want us to "cure" people etc?]

9/26/2008 3:50:49 AM

dude

shut the fuck up unless you actually want to put forth thought out arguments

9/26/2008 4:54:26 AM

When I saw that you had posted in this thread I somehow knew it was too much to hope that you had suspended the sorry fuck.

Also, kudos to HUR for making the assumption that class conflict is a one-way street. Also for assuming that offering potentially life-saving funds in exchange for a service is fundamentally different from forcing somebody to perform that service.

9/26/2008 5:10:34 AM

Quote :

"You and yours are the worst thing in this country today, and I can't begin to express how happy it makes me that your like are dying out."

what kind of like is this???

Quote :

"Also for assuming that offering potentially life-saving funds in exchange for a service is fundamentally different from forcing somebody to perform that service. "

Damn right. Hell why not make this opportunity to all people. I suppose a mother from an affluent family that already has 4 children should also be able to participate. This way whiny libs can't be like ZOMG eugenics or complain that this is a policy against the poor. In a way it would be like the lottery! The wealthy have the option to play but usually they are to smart to blow their money on lottery tickets. While the poor disproportionally participate

[Edited on September 26, 2008 at 10:23 AM. Reason : a]

9/26/2008 10:22:49 AM

HUR do you have a problem dispassionately reviewing data or examining things in a scientific fashion?

9/26/2008 10:25:57 AM

on a college online message board.....

YES

9/26/2008 10:34:18 AM

So your opinions "in real life" are massively different than ON A COLLEGE MESSAGE BOARD?

9/26/2008 10:55:49 AM

wtf even say this is for the "poor"?

Just offer any man on Earth $1000 to tie their tubes to help soften our population growth.

I mean, shit, that's a great idea.

9/26/2008 11:46:23 AM

yea I for one don't see the problem.

9/26/2008 7:24:06 PM

Quote :

"the thing about getting the old tubes tied is that it is not some minor thing and women can still get pregnant after the surgery and i would only agree with the policy if there is the same offer to men mainly because it is easier and less risky"

i'm pretty sure tubal ligation and vasectomy have roughly the same efficacy


it would only make sense to offer the same kind of option to men, but, realistically, pregancy is more difficult for women--men should be offered less

9/26/2008 8:27:05 PM

Quote :

"Nobody thinks poor people having a shitload of kids is a good idea "

Dems do, its called thier base.


I think if you are on welfare you should have to take birth control. imo. We are already giving out money, its time we expect something from them.

I had a medicaid patient, 52, told me her medicines cost over 60k a year. (of course she doesnt pay for any of it) she had diabetes and HTN (overweight of course) and Fibromyalgia(the new whiplash). Here is the kicker, she is on disability for this too.. and goes to a tanning bed daily and smokes 3 packs a day. So while taxpayers shell out over 60k just on medicine alone to help keep her oxygen going to her extremities.. SHE smokes 3 packs aday lowering the amount of oxygen getting to those end organs and nerve. A classic exam of not lifting one finger to help yourself, but asking for more and more assistance year by year.

9/27/2008 8:17:04 AM

Quote :

"Dems do, its called thier base."

Nope.

Quote :

"I had a medicaid patient, 52, told me her medicines cost over 60k a year. (of course she doesnt pay for any of it) she had diabetes and HTN (overweight of course) and Fibromyalgia(the new whiplash). Here is the kicker, she is on disability for this too.. and goes to a tanning bed daily and smokes 3 packs a day. So while taxpayers shell out over 60k just on medicine alone to help keep her oxygen going to her extremities.. SHE smokes 3 packs aday lowering the amount of oxygen getting to those end organs and nerve. A classic exam of not lifting one finger to help yourself, but asking for more and more assistance year by year."

Instances of people taking advantage of our particular system are not counter examples to the need for social programs.

9/27/2008 11:50:48 AM

^^ That shit pisses me off
Darwin would have another opinion about this woman contrary to liberal consensus




^ Yes it is

9/27/2008 1:06:22 PM

Natural selection is not the same thing as social darwinism.

9/27/2008 3:17:59 PM

evolution, on a marco scale, left the human race behind a long time ago, at least since the invention of the french fry...

9/27/2008 3:23:46 PM

Quote :

"accept it as killing, and move on from there. that is totally fucked."

...said the military man.

But yeah, I agree with moron. I'd also be fine with, at least, free sterilization for anybody who wants it.

p.s. omgwtfwoodfoot

9/27/2008 3:28:00 PM

Quote :

"Dems do, its called thier base."

No.

People have to vote in order to be included in a base.

9/27/2008 3:46:40 PM