I want Rockwells under my '78 250, the question is how to steer it with 52'' Michelin XZLs. I want to keep the ability to drive it on the road, farm to farm or to a woodsfire( never more than 10 miles from home) and that eliminates full hydraulic steering with an orbital valve. The ford box will probably rip out of the frame with that setup, and it would be nice to not be tired after a drive due to muscling the wheel. How would I do this?

This truck will operate in Bladen County, its flat, no rocks but some tree stumps and logs. I want the 52s because they are cheaper than 44'' boggers, Id need to regear to go that big, and around here big inch tires go with big inch motors to get you through deep mud. By the time I get both axles geared right, I would still be better off with military stuff, especially after I sell the 44 and 60 that is under there now. This is a toy, so I might as well build it balls out.

9/30/2008 9:35:24 PM

you are really not gonna be able to turn them without full hydro... my old roommate looked really really hard into this but realized only full hydro is reasonable... that being said, if done correctly there any many examples of full hydros that are road worthy. I'd do a lot of research on pirate and nc4x4.

[Edited on September 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM. Reason : are]

9/30/2008 9:47:08 PM

why rule out full hydro? with properly matched parts from quality manufacturers, it's not any more dangerous than a mechanical link and is much better in some aspects. it's certainly safer than leaving the stock stuff. plus, you can even get load reactive orbitals now that still allow you the ability to steer in the event of no engine power. full hydro would definitely be the best choice, but to do it right you're looking at a good chunk of change. if you really limit your road miles, you could do it a lot cheaper though...

next best would be hydro assist. in that case, you still keep your steering box and tap it for lines to power a small ram. simply put, this is kind of the best of both worlds. you've still go a mechanical link, yet you've got some of the extra power hydro provides. downsides are it can get complicated to design/implement the two systems together, and a lot of people complain about the ram overpowering the mechanical system in certain situations causing poor handling and un necessary stress on other parts.

last option would be to keep your stock box, and just upgrade the rest. plate/box the frame where it mounts, get some thicker/heavier duty material for the draglink/tie rod and bigger joints. this would obviously be the cheapest and easiest solution, and should perform fine for what you're trying to do. doesn't sound like you have any really hard core 4 wheeling planned. adding a panhard bar in this setup would help a lot also.

on a side note, what do you have planned for the suspension? keep in mind top loaders induce LOTS of axle wrap. i doubt you're interested in doing link setups, so make sure you get some strong leaves and plan on some traction/ladder bars, at least for the rear.

hit up http://www.pirate4x4.com and do some searching around on the forum. there is TONS of awesome technical info pertaining to rockwells and steering of any kind.

9/30/2008 10:00:27 PM

Quote :

"This truck will operate in Bladen County, its flat, no rocks but some tree stumps and logs. I want the 52s because they are cheaper than 44'' boggers, Id need to regear to go that big, and around here big inch tires go with big inch motors to get you through deep mud. By the time I get both axles geared right, I would still be better off with military stuff,"

Am i reading this right? Are you talking about regearing the rockwells?

9/30/2008 10:19:11 PM

i think he's saying that one reason the rockwells make sense is he wouldn't have to spend the money/time/effort regearing his stock 44/60.

9/30/2008 10:24:22 PM

^ thats right, dont regear danas, just replace them with the rockwells. We have a forklift with full hydro that is really twitchy at any type of speed past a good running pace so I am hesitant to go that route. Can you pass inspection with full hydro steering? will a regular orbital do it? it would be nice to do away with rods and arms. I would add a provision for aux. steering, mainly some long ass hydraulic hoses and quick connects, if I stick this truck built like I want it, nothing short of our 120hp tractor will bring it out, i can hook on to the tractor remotes.

i am thinking of using some stiff ass leaf springs and ladder bars, this rig is subject to have 4000lbs of water in the back with a pump. We have substantial timber holdings and the govt fire stuff can be spread thin at times. all of our stuff is within 7 miles of the shed where this will live, so that is its operating range. I can call it a farm expense if we use it on the farm, right?

What are your thoughts of a driveline brake instead of the stock drums? I have heard they are bad on pinion bearings.

9/30/2008 10:42:28 PM

I know a guy who had a full hydro setup that he didn't DD but it saw good amount of street time and was fine.

10/2/2008 9:19:13 PM

full hydro nigga. just do a p pump and returning orbital. its allll good.

10/2/2008 10:47:01 PM

"p pump"

clarify for those lacking the knowledge (all i can think of is the p7100 cummins IP )

10/3/2008 8:32:27 AM

http://www.pscmotorsports.com/sp1405-8006-hiperformance-pseries-pump-w-can-p-274.html that is a p pump. i had bad luck with the TC styles and went to the P and had no howling, faster response and NO problems driving at speed. mine was in a buggy and i never went long distance at high speed but guys down here run the P pumps with rocks and drive to tellico. make sure you have a big cooler and fan inline to keep it cool and you should not have a problem. get a rtc orbital.

10/3/2008 4:05:46 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-F-250-1972-LIFTED-FORD-F250-w-49in-IROK-TIRES-ROCKWELL-AXLES_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1205Q7c39Q3a1Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem220288395927QQitemZ220288395927

It should look like this but without the gay hood scoop


Can I pass inspection with hydro steering? Can I fab up some shit and stick it on there so it looks like power assist steering?

10/3/2008 6:29:53 PM

you can pass inspection with a fucking boat rudder in back if you want

10/5/2008 8:42:26 PM

arent buses hydro?

10/5/2008 8:50:03 PM

Quote :

"you can pass inspection with a fucking boat rudder in back if you want"

this made me LOL haha

10/6/2008 8:17:02 PM

^^some might be. a lot of heavy haul type vehicles are full hydro (like concrete trucks for example), so don't let anyone ever tell you it's not legal.

10/6/2008 8:27:33 PM

^ thats what i was getting at

i just dont know the full range of vehicles that are full hydro

10/6/2008 8:43:58 PM

the only issue i have with hydrolic steering is your "straight" location on the wheel floats.... or atleast on the ones i've driven

10/6/2008 8:50:32 PM

Quote :

"HYDROLIC STEERIN"

10/6/2008 9:29:15 PM

I have an old boat with hydraulic steering that i need to junk out. the pump looks like a regular pwrrrr steering pump, the cylinder looks wimpy for this application although it has about a 3/4 rod ( small bore though,) and the steering valve should be good to go. add a cooler and a tank on the low pressure side and get to steering, right? Its a Chapparal 187 XL with a 4.3

10/24/2008 9:02:26 PM

is it a fully hydro operated system, or is there a mechanical link/cable as well and it's just hydro assisted? it might work, but honestly the chances of it being well matched for your needs are slim since most hydro systems are pretty application specific. really just depends on the specs of the orbital/steering valve. in addition to the bore, the throw of the ram is of some concern as well. get whatever numbers, manufacturer name, etc. you can off the orbital and lets see if we can cross reference it into some usable data for determining how well it would be suited for an automotive application. i'm betting the ram will be way undersized for what you need. because of that, it's also unlikely that the orbital used is capable of supporting the extra capacity/flow for a larger ram.

off topic, but what year is the boat? i've got a friend with a similar model that could probably use some stuff if you're parting it out.

Quote :

"What are your thoughts of a driveline brake instead of the stock drums? I have heard they are bad on pinion bearings."

they're fine just for low speed/light traffic stuff. the main issue with them and street driving is fade. there's absolutely no problem with power, they'll throw you through the windshield and stop on a dime due to the gear reduction. that also comes at the cost of much higher rpm's at the pinion vs. at the wheel. that coupled with only two rotors means they get hot quick. they might be good for one panic stop from 60-70mph, or they might heat up to the point of being unusable before you can even get stopped. just depends on the speed, vehicle weight, and what parts you use. it sounds like you would probably be fine to use them judging from your planned use. however, if you ever plan to drive it in areas that you might be concerned about fade you should just run the stock drums. they're more than big enough to get the job done, the downside is they add a significant amount of weight and are a pain to work on/keep adjusted. there are aftermarket and do it yourself options for wheel discs, but none of them are cheap. also keep in mind that if you plan to run locking hubs instead of the factory drive flanges, the pinion brake on the front axle effectively becomes useless with them unlocked. the same goes for leaving either of the differentials open, you'll want to have them both welded or use one of the available mechanical lockers/spools.

[Edited on October 25, 2008 at 12:09 AM. Reason : oh, and also fwiw that ebay truck is illegal as hell... max legal width is 102", federal law]

10/24/2008 11:49:00 PM

^ Thanks for that, stopping has been a concern. its an 87 model boat with a omc cobra stern drive, I have every thing but the headers, they are cracked and I had them rewelded, , trim motor works, the lower is great but the prop is flattened. Ill let it go really cheap. It may be cable over hydro now that you mention it.

10/25/2008 9:34:19 AM