Quote :

"WASHINGTON - The White House said on Wednesday it was "despicable" that American International Group Inc. executives spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on a posh California retreat just days after getting a federal bailout. Lawmakers investigating the meltdown of AIG said the retreat didn't include anyone from the financial products division that nearly drove the company under, but they were still enraged that executives of AIG's main U.S. life insurance subsidiary spent $440,000 on the retreat, complete with spa treatments, banquets and golf outings. "It's pretty despicable," White House press secretary Dana Perino said."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27086714/

This is seriously unbelievable. AMERICA, FUCK YEAH

10/9/2008 8:47:19 AM

i saw this on inside edition a couple days ago but didn't post about it because i was afraid of the [old]

they had a receipt for like, $4000 at a salon. then even more money spent at the spa for mani/pedi and massages. there was some big black man going over the receipts and he was getting so angry his face was shaking. i was pissed about it, but the shaking man made me lol

I NEED SOME MONEY FROM THE GOV'MENT!!

10/9/2008 8:56:10 AM

it looks bad but the reality is that the trip was paid for long in advance and the deposit was non-refundable. I also believe it was paid for by some sales-incentive program from national insurance offices...if I remember correctly.

long story short, the money for that didnt come from the government.

Boortz was talking about it yesterday.

10/9/2008 9:00:47 AM

^ probably true...


[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 9:02 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 9:01:57 AM

^^ probably true, but perception always win over reality....


and now AIG is asking for more money, it just looks bad.

10/9/2008 9:05:16 AM

absolutely looks bad, I am just saying that the perception is not reality.

people too often get caught up with whats on the surface instead of the fact. people should get mad over fact...not appearance.

10/9/2008 9:10:05 AM

yes, but we're dealing with the American electorate.....

10/9/2008 9:12:58 AM

Quote :

"long story short, the money for that didnt come from the government."

LOL, that is like giving a bum $10 and not being upset when he goes and spends $5 that he already had on alcohol. (I wouldn't personally care, but I also don't give bums money).

I wish I got a $4,400 week long vacation for a job well done

10/9/2008 9:28:41 AM

no it isnt. the bum in this case had already paid for the alcohol before you gave him the $10.

people getting incentive-based vacations are not uncommon.

10/9/2008 9:45:47 AM

Quote :

"I wish I got a $4,400 week long vacation for a job well done "

Except that it wasn't a $4,400 vacation, it was $440,000. I don't give a shit if the trip was nonrefundable or not, if you think this is acceptable then there's something wrong with you, why the hell are we giving money to these clowns???

10/9/2008 9:50:34 AM

Screw incentives if it means keeping my job and still getting paid. Vacation incentives doesn't pay the mortgage bill.

Quote :

"LOL, that is like giving a bum $10 and not being upset when he goes and spends $5 that he already had on alcohol. (I wouldn't personally care, but I also don't give bums money)."

I see what you are saying there, however, that doesn't make it right. In that case, I wouldn't have given him any money (well, I don't give bums money to begin with...) but if he really needed $10, he should have saved that $5 and just asked for $5. I understand that if he asks for $10 and he can still get his beer on the side, he will and eventually he'll get what he wants, yadda yadda yadda. But that's just exactly what's wrong. People think they can get what they want and when they get in trouble, they ask for more. That may not have been the case, but if AIG knew they were in trouble, the first cutback that should have taken place is workplace incentives, such as paid vacations and pampering. When you are losing money or going down, you have to adjust your lifestyle accordingly. You can't go from a $100k/year salary with a $100k/year lifestyle and then lose your job and be stuck with a $40k/year salary and still be abel to live the same lifestyle, for example. That's just common sense amirite?




[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 9:51:11 AM

Quote :

"incentive-based vacations"

So what you're saying is that these people DESERVED an INCENCTIVE-BASED vacation at the precise moment their company is being barely held up by a massive financial bailout? You're about as intelligent as our current president.

10/9/2008 9:55:12 AM

Doesn't matter if it was booked in advanced and they would lose their deposit. Any jackass in PR could have told them they were going to have to eat the deposit and stay home or else it was going to be a media nightmare for the company.

10/9/2008 9:58:16 AM

Quote :

"Except that it wasn't a $4,400 vacation, it was $440,000."

I think it was 100 people (or atleast 100 rooms IIRC).

Either way the bottom line is $440k instead of losing a deposit (10% maybe?). But I agree with ^^^

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 10:04 AM. Reason : ]

10/9/2008 9:59:20 AM

First of all, we don't know how far in advanced it was booked. So if someone finds that out first, then we can speculate/judge some more.

10/9/2008 10:01:18 AM

Just another example of once your govt takes your money, you have NO SAY where it goes.

Support the Fairtax

10/9/2008 10:02:07 AM

I just can't fathom that someone would even try to come up with a qualifier for how this would be acceptable? Unbelievable to me that this goes on when that much taxpayer money just went up in smoke because these companies couldn't govern themselves correctly in the first place

10/9/2008 10:08:02 AM

again, let me say I know the appearance of this is terrible.

Quote :

"Except that it wasn't a $4,400 vacation, it was $440,000. I don't give a shit if the trip was nonrefundable or not, if you think this is acceptable then there's something wrong with you, why the hell are we giving money to these clowns???"

I dont necessarily disagree that we shouldnt be giving them money. I was just pointing out that the entire trip was paid for before any bailout was ever necessary or announced. I also dont see the point in just letting that deposit be forfeit. If its paid for already and you cant get the money back, oh well. have fun.

Quote :

"So what you're saying is that these people DESERVED an INCENCTIVE-BASED vacation at the precise moment their company is being barely held up by a massive financial bailout? You're about as intelligent as our current president."

the incentive program, as I understand it, was for reps around the country of small, locally based insurance companies who earn the trip over the course of the year. its not just the fat cats of AIG. you are about as intelligent as the unwashed masses who just take the news talking points up their ass without looking past the exterior of the story.

Quote :

"Doesn't matter if it was booked in advanced and they would lose their deposit. Any jackass in PR could have told them they were going to have to eat the deposit and stay home or else it was going to be a media nightmare for the company."

very true.

Quote :

"Just another example of once your govt takes your money, you have NO SAY where it goes. Support the Fairtax"

Fairtax wouldnt keep the government from spending your money ridiculously. but I agree with it

10/9/2008 10:15:17 AM

for those of you defending the $450k trip b/c of a non-refundable deposit.....

$7000

that's how much they would have lost.

Yeah, wow.... that really would have put a huge dent in our deficit

http://tinyurl.com/3k5dza

10/9/2008 10:38:19 AM

We dont know how far in advance it was booked?!? Why the fuck does that matter?

Its not like the company's financials went to shit overnight. That horrible excuse for corporate management took months and years to get to the point it was at now. Just like the vacation was planned in advance, the higher-ups knew that shit was going bad and they allowed it to be booked anyways.

Regardless of if the trip was booked a day, month, or year in advance, the company knew that they were in trouble with money. Booking a trip like this while asking for $$$ from the govt is just plain niggardly

10/9/2008 10:45:25 AM

dude.



the trip was booked months and months in advance and was designed as an incentive program for locally-based reps to meet sales goals for AIG. yes some fat cats went and got fatter. yes the appearance is terrible. I am just trying to point out another side of the story. its not as a ridiculous as a thing as it appears to be. there is conflicting information on the deposit. ~$7000 could be right but I have heard much more and in some cases all.

I dont know about you but if I am a private insurance rep and I meet the criteria and sales goal and earn that trip, I would be pissed if it were yanked out from under me at the last minute. I probably wouldnt do business with AIG anymore...if more people thought like me they would lose large amounts of business and then the tax-payer investment would also be sunk.

just something else to think about.

10/9/2008 10:55:23 AM

^ I agree to an exent. I haven't kept up with AIG so I don't know if they booked this shit a year ago when things were just rocky or just a couple weeks when shit was just about to hit the fan. It doesn't matter though because yes, in the end it sucks. That's why I posted that.

Quote :

"That horrible excuse for corporate management took months and years to get to the point it was at now. Just like the vacation was planned in advance, the higher-ups knew that shit was going bad and they allowed it to be booked anyways. "

And that fact is just stupidity on the corporations part. I don't get how people survive these days when a "simple" decision to stop "luxurious spending" seems out of the question...

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 11:01 AM. Reason : .]

10/9/2008 11:00:14 AM

agreed

10/9/2008 11:05:35 AM

The fact that some of you are trying to defend this makes me a sad panda

That is exactly why in our lifetime we will see America crumble

10/9/2008 11:48:08 AM

i don't care if they would have lost $100,000 on the deposit. That still leaves them with $350k MORE

10/9/2008 11:49:36 AM

As Dabird was saying, its not a retreat for AIG employees. Its an incentive program for independent insurance agencies that sell AIG backed policies.

Think of it this way, should all banks and credit card industries immediately stop honoring their rewards points and cash back programs?

10/9/2008 11:57:00 AM

^If each person gets around $4k in benefits, then yes they probably should.

Outrage Leads AIG To Cancel Second Luxury Retreat:

Quote :

"Battered by outrage over the $440,000 it spent on a luxury retreat less than a week after the federal government loaned it $85 million dollars, the giant AIG Insurance Company says it has called off plans to hold a second retreat next week at the exclusive Ritz-Carlton Resort in Half Moon Bay, California. The exclusive Ritz-Carlton Resort in Half Moon Bay, California, was supposed to be the site for a second retreat for the AIG Insurance Company next week, but the insurance giant has now called off its plans after taking heat for the luxury retreat it hosted last week. The Ritz-Carlton outing, like the earlier one, was to reward top independent insurance agents, which the company called a "standard industry practice." AIG says it has instructed its worldwide managers to re-scrutinize how money is being spent. "We're certainly reviewing all our expenditures in light of financial circumstances and the fact that taxpayer dollars are helping to support AIG as we get through this difficult credit crisis," said Nicholas Ashooh, a spokesperson for AIG. Critics from President Bush's spokesperson to Senator Obama have denounced AIG for holding an expensive retreat at a time of economic crisis. The criticism has been "demoralizing" within AIG, said Ashooh, "but we have to recognize that we're in a different environment and we have to adjust to that." Despite calling off the Half Moon Bay event, AIG says it will still have to pay for cancellation fees. While the company would not specify how much money would be lost, a standard room at the Ritz Carlton Half Moon Bay costs over $400 a night. "We'll certainly lose some money in cancellation fees, but it's just beyond the point of trying to conduct these meetings given the uncertainty that's taking place," said Ashooh."

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5994567&page=1

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 12:01 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ]

10/9/2008 11:59:48 AM

Quote :

"I just can't fathom that someone would even try to come up with a qualifier for how this would be acceptable? Unbelievable to me that this goes on when that much taxpayer money just went up in smoke because these companies couldn't govern themselves correctly in the first place"

I'm sure this is only the tip of the iceberg.

In any case this financial crisis didn't just pop up overnight so outrage should be not only because it happened AFTER the loan but that it was going on period. You want to reward your people, take them to Denny's for lunch.

[Edited on October 9, 2008 at 12:19 PM. Reason : edit]

10/9/2008 12:16:11 PM

Quote :

"As Dabird was saying, its not a retreat for AIG employees. Its an incentive program for independent insurance agencies that sell AIG backed policies. Think of it this way, should all banks and credit card industries immediately stop honoring their rewards points and cash back programs? "

exactly.

I am not saying that it looks good, but if you are going to be angry about it at least know exactly what it was.

for the record, I am personally against the bailout but from what I have read, this retreat would have happened even if AIG didnt get any government help.

10/9/2008 1:42:33 PM

Quote :

"Its an incentive program for independent insurance agencies that sell AIG backed policies. Think of it this way, should all banks and credit card industries immediately stop honoring their rewards points and cash back programs?"

If they're going bankrupt, then yeah, they probably should. They obviously don't have the money. Sucks for you but that's life.

10/10/2008 5:18:17 AM

How many people would then switch banks to one who didn't stop honoring their rewards points?

If the independent insurance agencies made 10-20 million (or more likely) in revenue last year, there is nothing wrong in not canceling an already planned event that is an incentive for them (and others, since only the top independents go) to make even more money next year. (AIG's PR firm should have handled this a lot better though)

I obviously don't have any numbers since I'm not in the industry, but I would bet that the ROI on the "free weeklong resort vacation" is higher than the television ad's I still see on tv. (If you ignore the negative publicity now)

Should every company getting money in the bailout be forced to stop all marketing operations? Good luck getting any new customers (depositors) in that case.

For the record, I'm against the bailouts. I believe the situation "is what it is" and these bailouts just serve to delay how long it takes to hit the bottom, and extend the recovery period. Again.



-----------

Quote :

"or those of you defending the $450k trip b/c of a non-refundable deposit..... $7000 that's how much they would have lost. Yeah, wow.... that really would have put a huge dent in our deficit http://tinyurl.com/3k5dza"

From the article: Ten AIG employees stayed at the hotel, and assuming they didn't share any rooms, that means that canceling would have cost between $5,450 and $7,025, since a room costs between $250-450 and presidential suite costs $3,250.

That would be because most of the reservations were for independent insurance agents and not AIG employees.

From the same article: And in fact, it sure looks like executives stayed away — $58,000 (30%) of the hotel room charges were for attrition, meaning that they had committed to many more participants than ultimately actually attended.

So, only 7,000 to cancel the entire thing, but if not everyone shows up, we're going to charge 58,000 for the ones who don't show. Doesn't add up to me.

[Edited on October 10, 2008 at 6:49 AM. Reason : Added below the --]

10/10/2008 6:40:29 AM

Quote :

"You want to reward your people, take them to Denny's for lunch. "

Lol. I've always worked for places that wouldn't even take you to Denny's for your birthday.

10/10/2008 7:33:41 AM