g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoStdGhm25s

Thoughts? If your kid was in that class, would you have allowed him/her to go? I wouldn't have. And if the kid was older, say 10-12, I would let him/her make up his/her mind, since by that age s/he already would have been exposed to the existence of homosexuality and could make up their own mind. But at the age of 6, I don't want them thinking of such issues by being 'forcibly' being exposed to them.

BTW, rank the 3 from hottest to least. My ranking: left to right!


[Edited on October 25, 2008 at 11:52 PM. Reason : and MERCEDES is an awesome name... just might name my daughter that!]

10/25/2008 11:45:29 PM

Is there an article-version of this? Watching videos for "news" stories = fail.

Anyway, if she sent them wedding invites... it would be weird, but totally okay in a legal sense. Up to the parents to let the kids go or not.

If she actually brought them to the wedding, as the thread title implies... well that seems pretty fucking questionable, lesbian or not.


As for the question, if I were a parent, I would hope that my kid would have better things to do with his/her time and not even care to go in the first place... but if they did, I'd probably keep them home. Not because it's a lesbian wedding, but because any teacher sending her students wedding invites is fucking strange.

10/25/2008 11:51:56 PM

Wouldn't the parents have had to sign a permission form? I mean it seems like a retarded field trip simply because it doesn't seem to be a good use of class time. Wouldn't the teacher merely being in a same sex marriage be cultural exposure enough? I think you get more out of having black students in class with white students than you would taking white students on field trips to see black people wouldn't you?

[Edited on October 25, 2008 at 11:54 PM. Reason : ]

10/25/2008 11:52:17 PM

^^ Yeah we need the news story. I just stumbled upon it on youtube so I posted it. Someone search. I will search too.

Found it:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,436961,00.html
http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2008/10/11/First-graders_attend_lesbian_wedding/UPI-57841223752023/
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/10/MNFG13F1VG.DTL
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=77734
http://www.ibtimes.com/prnews/20081011/ca-firstgradegaywddng.htm
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/13/EDJN13EGD5.DTL


[Edited on October 25, 2008 at 11:58 PM. Reason : ]

10/25/2008 11:53:35 PM

In your usual search for lesbian Youtube porn, no doubt

10/25/2008 11:56:52 PM

are you mad because the couple is gay?

or would if have been ok with you if the couple was straight?

10/25/2008 11:57:19 PM

^^ actually, believe it or not, i got there from the barbara west biden interview video on youtube!

^ it would have been ok with me if the couple was straight. still weird attending a teacher's wedding at that age, but would have been ok.

10/26/2008 12:00:15 AM

^^ It would have had even less value if it was a straight couple simple because there would have been nothing novel about it for the kids. That novelty is not enough to warrant a field trip and not something that I think was very helpful in fostering understanding. I mean there are gay and lesbian groups calling this a PR disaster too.

10/26/2008 12:02:24 AM

I don't see anyone in this thread being "mad" about this, but personally I think it would be JUST as creepy for a straight teacher to want their first grade students coming to their wedding. It's strange on multiple levels:

- Fusing work life with home life to a pretty heavy degree.
- Is this teacher really that lacking in friends her own age?
- Pedophilia implications, much?
- It's kinda... well, stalker-like.
- If she wants to expose her students to alternative sexual orientations...well, is that even something a teacher should be doing? Especially specifically exposing them to her own?

[Edited on October 26, 2008 at 12:06 AM. Reason : .]

10/26/2008 12:05:27 AM

i don't see why you are upset. the field trip was suggested by a parent? that's what the fox news article said. if all of the parents signed a form saying that their children were allowed to go, i don't see what your problem is with it, and i think you should mind your own business. and i do see the educational value in it, because this is a pivotal issue, especially in the area that they reside in.

and it would be wrong if the children were "forced" to go.

[Edited on October 26, 2008 at 12:06 AM. Reason : .]

10/26/2008 12:06:14 AM

Quote :

"I think it would be JUST as creepy for a straight teacher to want their first grade students coming to their wedding."

10/26/2008 12:11:41 AM

Quote :

"thoughts"

congrats to the new couple...i hope they are together for 50 years and live happily ever after


NEXT

10/26/2008 12:22:14 AM

Quote :

"i think you should mind your own business."

While this is a ridiculous thing to say as you then offer your own opinion on the matter, it does hit an important point.

This was personal business. If a parent suggested it and many parents approved, then they should have gone. I just don't think a wedding should make for a field trip. She's a lesbian teacher and she's found someone to marry? That's great. Can she tell the kids about it? Sure. Can the kids go to the wedding? Sounds like a great Saturday.

And no, it's not a big deal. It is however quite silly to make it a field trip or to make it news.

10/26/2008 12:22:57 AM

Quote :

"any teacher sending her students wedding invites is fucking strange."

10/26/2008 2:37:20 AM

^ my hs english teacher sent me an invite to her wedding ~1 year after i had graduated HS. I did find it a bit odd...

10/26/2008 2:41:26 AM

4th grade teacher showed a few of us a video of her breast feeding her kid...didnt find it odd at all


lolololol

10/26/2008 3:04:56 AM

^ uhh... that's just a little bit sketchy... I mean, breast feeding in public is considered a bit odd (but still okay), but taping yourself breast feeding and showing it to a classroom of 4th graders?

10/26/2008 3:36:38 AM

this sound like something that would happen at my kid's school

hell, it probably DID happen at my kid's school. there are a number of children with same-sex parents at our school, and at least a couple lesbian teachers aides that i'm aware of. FWIW, the custodian is a transvestite.

so, you know... whatever.

10/26/2008 4:12:51 AM

Quote :

"are you mad because the couple is gay?"

Where am I mad or upset?

Quote :

"if all of the parents signed a form saying that their children were allowed to go, i don't see what your problem is with it, and i think you should mind your own business. and i do see the educational value in it"

How many times can you contradict yourself in 2 sentences? You tell me to mind my own business (when in fact I am), but you keep saying "I this..." and "I that..."

Where did I say they shouldn't have gone? I said I wouldn't send MY kid, that's all (Yes, the 'them' obviously refers to my kid). You see the educational value in it? Well congrats, but I don't.

In conclusion, I think you should mind your own business and not tell me what to do or to think, just like I am minding my own business and making decisions about MY kid only.

10/26/2008 5:10:05 AM

I'm a teacher, and i would never have even considered inviting my students to my wedding.

10/26/2008 1:28:18 PM

Quote :

"such issues by being 'forcibly' being exposed to them."

Which issues are those? Two adults who love each other very much expressing their lifetime commitment to each other publicly?

I definitely would keep my kid away from that.

10/26/2008 1:57:45 PM

^ that's because you'd probably adopt, and it wouldn't be YOUR kid you're ruining anyway

10/26/2008 2:08:12 PM

gays marrying is so 2004. we're all beyond that now.

10/26/2008 3:56:31 PM

Quote :

"I'm a teacher, and i would never have even considered inviting my students to my wedding."

10/26/2008 4:00:16 PM

ah, but you arent gay, and you havent just recently (finally) received the legal right to marry your life partner.

so i think the larger issue is not "hey kids, lets go see a wedding" but actually is the issue that gays being able to marry in this country is a novel concept, and historic precedents are being set.

i beleive the the lesson for the kids was of one of civics, and being framed through the lens of social justice.

10/26/2008 4:18:11 PM

I guess the question is when was the last time a straight teacher invited their students to their wedding? Maybe teachers should be professional and work on teaching and let the students figure these issues out for themselves when they get to college.

10/26/2008 4:25:35 PM

I guess the question is when was the last time a straight teacher invited their students to their wedding? Maybe teachers should be professional and work on teaching and let the students figure these issues out for themselves when they get to college.

10/26/2008 4:25:35 PM

Quote :

"so i think the larger issue is not "hey kids, lets go see a wedding" but actually is the issue that gays being able to marry in this country is a novel concept, and historic precedents are being set."

Yeah, I get that, but still. I'd show them some wedding photos, at most.

10/26/2008 4:32:29 PM

^^ civil rights and social justice are not issues that you "figure out once you get into college"

^ to be present at an event is far more instructive than to see a few snapshots.

anyhow, i'm willing to bet the kids and teacher had been talking about it for a significant time period, and the kids themselves wanted to go.

yeah, i understand you are a teacher, but teaching first graders is an entirely different game than teaching jr. high or high school kids.

10/26/2008 4:39:24 PM

shit, double post

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 3:59 AM. Reason : meant to edit instead of posting another]

10/27/2008 3:58:26 AM

Quote :

"civil rights and social justice are not issues that you "figure out once you get into college""

No, but they're also not issues that you get taught in first grade.

This was posed as a 'field trip', correct?

I think the question, then, is whether or not it falls under the scope of a teacher's job responsibilities to USE SCHOOL RESOURCES to expose kids to a wedding for any purpose.

Perhaps if modern social issues is part of the first grade curriculum, it's fine. But if I had to guess, I'd say it isn't, and thus it is not right that this trip be taken. I have no problem with a teacher going above and beyond what is required of them when they are teaching something relevant to the class, but this just seems like an irresponsible use of school time/money/a bus for personal sentiment and education about an issue that these kids probably aren't even old enough to understand.


And, as I mentioned before, it's just creepy that a teacher would want to merge her personal life so heavily with her job, regardless of her sexual orientation. Sure, a teacher can invite his or her students to their wedding if they want, but it shouldn't be connected with the school, and personally I'd want my kid staying home, even for a straight wedding. Kind of like how I wouldn't invite my co-workers to my own wedding, unless said co-workers were also my friends outside of work.


Also, I would question just how much this does to "educate" the children on alternate lifestyles... gay relationships are moving farther into mainstream culture every year, and these kids are probably going to see it made legal before they even leave college, if not sooner. Taking them on a gay wedding field trip or whatever they want to call this seems like it just highlights it to the kids as something abnormal (or, to put it in more child-like terms, "weird"). It's like taking white kids on a field trip to an inner-city ghetto to teach them about race relations... the act of pointing out the superficial differences of other people, even in a positive context of encouraging acceptance, would do very little but imprint these children with the idea that it's okay to determine someone's social status or judge someone based upon skin color or sexual orientation.

Kids should learn not to discriminate based on the idea that all people are people, regardless of superficial traits... not because they are raised with the meaningless assurance that discrimination is wrong. Saying, "Jimmy, don't stare at him, he can't help that he's different" is only further pointing out how "different" that person is, and to a certain degree, it is dehumanizing the person being stared at.

10/27/2008 3:59:04 AM

^

Well, you can look up a first grade curriculum online. Here's one for a Massachusetts school (couldn't find SF):

Quote :

" Students will be introduced to the use of maps, globes, charts and diagrams for an understanding of history and geography and develop an appreciation of diversity. · Develop awareness of people, places, and events"

http://www.marlborough.k12.ma.us/currbrochure/1stgrade.htm

Hmmm, let's see. Appreciation of diversity. Check. Awareness of people, places, and ... events. Check! All under the category of ... Social Studies. Check!

So much for the trip being "creepy" or overly personal or a misuse of school funds or whatever.

As to highlighting the event as "weird" or "abnormal" -- no, that would be you doing it. If this teacher takes these kids to the event and says "look, here are two people who love each other getting married," that would not exactly highlight it as an "alternate lifestyle" or a "modern social issue." In reality it's actually the political opposition to gay marriage who seek such differentiation, as it suits their purposes. To me and the millions of other Americans who support equality in marriage, it's just that -- marriage. Period.

10/27/2008 5:30:02 AM

The PARENTS set up the field trip, not the teacher or the school. This is a private school as well.

10/27/2008 8:14:08 AM

1.) there's nothing wrong with homosexuality or homosexual marriage, so I don't see any reason to not bring first graders to a gay wedding
2.) even if you think there's something wrong with it, you should allow your children to know the reality of the world. there are gay people, they get married when they can, and they do it because they love each other

10/27/2008 9:19:34 AM

i think its kind of a dumb thing to go on a field trip for, but if the parents signed off on it who cares?

10/27/2008 10:56:47 AM

as long as the parents said it was ok, fine with me. however, I dont know if I would personally be cool with sending my first grader or not. seems like an awfully young age to expose a child to something like gay marriage. 4th-5th grade and higher seems about right...when the child is old enough to understand the differences in sexuality and ask the right questions.

1st grade just seems like you are bringing them for the shock value/attention.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

10/27/2008 10:57:47 AM

I see nothing wrong with it as long as the parents agreed.

Personally, I would have not let my kid go, just because it would allude to that sense that homosexuality is perfectly normal and that it's perfectly natural for them to get married. Which, I don't think it is. But, that's another topic. For example, I'm not against people who smoke cigarettes, just don't do it around my kids or try to influence them into thinking that it's alright to smoke. You can smoke until you poop your lungs out your rear. I have no problem with it.

My philosophy, "You better take the oppportunity to brainwash your child before someone else does."

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 11:20 AM. Reason : meh]

10/27/2008 11:18:58 AM

Quote :

"My philosophy, "You better take the oppportunity to brainwash your child before someone else does.""

Depressing.

10/27/2008 11:23:12 AM

Thank god there were other things going on so that it did not get as much press coverage.

10/27/2008 11:28:29 AM

Quote :

"My philosophy, "You better take the opportunity to brainwash your child before someone else does.""

LOL

10/27/2008 11:43:03 AM

Yeah, sounds funny until you realize that your child learned all their values from MTV or CNN/FOX Not to say that there aren't good things in the world, but the ratio of wholesome versus unwholesome is obviously down.

Makes sense to me. If you want your child to learn certain values in life, you teach them those values. You don't leave it up to society to teach them. I'm old skool.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 11:51 AM. Reason : depressing]

10/27/2008 11:47:17 AM

Naturally you give them starter-values, but your goal shouldn't be to "brainwash" them. You should give them the tools they need to make their own decisions when they get older.

10/27/2008 12:08:03 PM

Thank you Mr. Obvious. Statements about, "give them the tools they need to make their own decisions when they get older" are kind of moot if you ask me. Whether you teach them, give them tools, or let them hang out with gangsters, they're going to do what they want. So, I think it's a cop-out statement. It's like the "hands-off" approach to parenting. What are these "tools" you speak of? What kind of tools can you give them that they don't already have themselves? Unless you stick them in a room and make them stare at prompts all day, I think most humans are smart enough to decide for themselves. Values are values, plain and simple. Either teach them, or others will.

What's important is that when it comes to doing what's "right", will they do what you taught them is "right"? Or will they do what others have taught them? Some parents care, others don't.

Like I said, teach them or let them be taught by others. I personally trust myself more than others.

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 12:36 PM. Reason : over and out]

10/27/2008 12:33:19 PM

[Edited on October 27, 2008 at 12:38 PM. Reason : ]

10/27/2008 12:37:49 PM

Quote :

""It really is what we call a teachable moment," said Liz Jaroslow, the school’s interim director, according to the newspaper. She said same-sex marriage had historic significance. "I think I'm well within the parameters.""

Quote :

"so i think the larger issue is not "hey kids, lets go see a wedding" but actually is the issue that gays being able to marry in this country is a novel concept, and historic precedents are being set. "

The end of prohibition was historic, too, but I bet teachers weren't organizing field trips to the bar. And when marijuana gets legalized, I hope to God we don't see teachers taking 1st graders to hash bars so that they can observe the "teachable moment" of their instructor getting baked (legally) for the first time.

Someone is going to get angry in a moment that I am comparing booze to gay marriage. Before you start writing, though, think really, really hard about who you're talking to.

We've repealed lots of stupid prohibitions in our history, and as novel and as important as those events are, they frequently aren't the kinds of things you show to kids.

---

Primarily, though, I fall into the camp that thinks making any wedding out of a field trip seems pretty odd. Which is why, no matter how sarcastically Smoker intended this:

Quote :

"Which issues are those? Two adults who love each other very much expressing their lifetime commitment to each other publicly?"

I agree with it, regardless of the penis/vagina ratio of the adults in question. "Love" and "lifetime commitment" aren't things to be taught in schools. In fact, they're probably things that can't be taught in schools.

And let's not gloss over some of the dark sides with "lifetime commitment." Gay marriage hasn't been legal long enough for us to get a realistic concept of divorce rates. I'm not one of those people who thinks that homosexuals are, by their nature, more promiscuous or degenerate than straight people on average, but I also don't think that the test of time is going to show them having wildly more successful marriages, either. Using a phrase like "lifelong commitment," you might as well be bald-faced lying to these kids.

---

These kids (and pretty much all others who don't go to hardcore evangelical private schools) are going to become plenty familiar with gay marriage on their own, without going to see it happen in school. They already have an openly homosexual teacher who they are aware is getting married to another woman. It is a subject that is discussed in the news, which, as they get holder, they will at least have a passing familiarity with.

I would say they'd have debates with friends and family members about it, but since they appear to be in a very insulated liberal enclave, I'm not so sure. Certainly it worked for me. I hammered out my own fairly moderate view of gay marriage despite never having been to a wedding, gay or otherwise.

---

In answer to the OP, not only would I not let my kid go, I'd be outright livid if it happened during a school day. If, as I understand it, this is a private school, there would be some very serious discussions with the administration about how I'm paying out the ass for my kid to learn, not to go throw fucking rose petals.

10/27/2008 1:03:00 PM

Quote :

"What are these "tools" you speak of? What kind of tools can you give them that they don't already have themselves? Unless you stick them in a room and make them stare at prompts all day, I think most humans are smart enough to decide for themselves. Values are values, plain and simple. Either teach them, or others will."

If you think there's nothing about reasoning that you can't teach a 5 year old, then I don't think we can have this conversation.

10/27/2008 1:12:35 PM

Quote :

"The end of prohibition was historic, too, but I bet teachers weren't organizing field trips to the bar. And when marijuana gets legalized, I hope to God we don't see teachers taking 1st graders to hash bars so that they can observe the "teachable moment" of their instructor getting baked (legally) for the first time."

I laffed.

And you made a good point.

Sometimes it is best to just let kids be kids. There is no reason a pre-teen should be in the middle of this debate AT ALL.

10/27/2008 1:18:49 PM

Quote :

"The end of prohibition was historic, too, but I bet teachers weren't organizing field trips to the bar. And when marijuana gets legalized, I hope to God we don't see teachers taking 1st graders to hash bars so that they can observe the "teachable moment" of their instructor getting baked (legally) for the first time."

red herrings. yum.

you know, you're starting to sound really bitter.

10/27/2008 2:22:26 PM

^

Quote :

"think really, really hard about who you're talking to."

10/27/2008 4:00:57 PM

I thought it was a good point.

10/27/2008 7:20:56 PM