I submit to you, the users of T-dub. Was it easier to be a college student "then" (I'm thinking 50s-60s, but this can be taken on a multi-generational basis) when everything was new and waiting to be discovered and original thoughts were all people had, or is it easier now, with vast libraries of knowledge that are easily accessible, but at the same time, people have to know everything?

11/11/2008 2:41:10 PM

college back then was probably like grad school nowadays

11/11/2008 2:41:48 PM

durrr

11/11/2008 2:42:15 PM

durrr

11/11/2008 2:42:15 PM

durrr

11/11/2008 2:42:15 PM

Much more knowledge has become fundamental over the years, for example, like DNA is very basic in biology, back then it was probably only for researchers and grad students. Don't know what this means but its certainly a factor for the subject at hand.

11/11/2008 2:43:15 PM

durrr

11/11/2008 2:44:32 PM

It was easier then because you didn't have the internet, tv, phones, etc slowing down everybody or competing for attention.

11/11/2008 2:46:03 PM

The rigor of college was much greater "back in the day". The majority of today's college students couldn't cope with the amount of work demanded from students several generations ago.

11/11/2008 2:47:40 PM

^^ I would say technology has made it harder for the new school because it provides plenty of mediums to shove work down your throat.



[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 2:49 PM. Reason : /]

11/11/2008 2:48:58 PM

we still don't know everything, so there's plenty to learn/discover.

learning 1 thing answers 1 question....but spawns 10 more questions.

11/11/2008 2:51:12 PM

I cannot possibly believe that anyone would think college today is even near the same level 50 years ago.

11/11/2008 2:53:06 PM

look all i know is id rather use a ti-89 than a slide rule

11/11/2008 2:53:14 PM

^^ That would explain why a Bachelor's and, to some extent, a Master's degree is becoming watered down and worthless.

11/11/2008 2:55:19 PM

I wonder if it was easier to get into college then though? since the expectations seem to rise with the years. My dad took geometry in 10th grade, I was in 7th.....etc. SAT scores?

11/11/2008 2:56:04 PM

College was probably harder because it wasn't efficient as college is today in terms is disturbing material, and lack of massive amounts of fundamental knowledge. However think about 'new' majors like Computer Science today, which would pretty much been impossible 50 years ago.

11/11/2008 2:56:46 PM

All things considered, it was much "harder" to be a college student then. Information was a rare commodity and wikipedia and google did not exist. People could also make a decent living during that time without a college education, so the incentive to get a degree solely based on an eventual increase in income was not guarenteed.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 2:57 PM. Reason : -]

11/11/2008 2:56:53 PM

Quote :

"^^ That would explain why a Bachelor's and, to some extent, a Master's degree is becoming watered down and worthless."

Only so because more people hold these degrees now than then.

11/11/2008 2:58:08 PM

People say bachelor's degrees are becoming obsolete, but that's not true. I personally believe that masters degrees are the least cost-effective of the degrees, and PhDs are where it really pays off. If you can find a program that bypasses the masters degree program and goes straight to PhD, monetarily-speaking, it's a sounder decision. That won't stop business undergrads from getting their MBA's, but I think master's programs are a waste of money.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 3:03 PM. Reason : -]

11/11/2008 3:02:05 PM

no spell check!

11/11/2008 3:02:25 PM

Quote :

"Only so because more people hold these degrees now than then."

Or standards for acquiring them have fallen.

11/11/2008 3:03:22 PM

BSs are actually becoming more popular especially for lines or work that did not traditionally require them, like Law Enforcement, Customer service (like Wireless consultant at Alltel for example), and a whole host of other places. The beauty of the BS is that its the easiest to get and you still have a (good) chance to make plenty of money with it.

^ That could also be a factor. But if more people have them no mater how or why they got them, its more people to choose from with a BS.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 3:06 PM. Reason : /]

11/11/2008 3:05:45 PM

Good call.

11/11/2008 3:06:22 PM

Quote :

"look all i know is id rather use a ti-89 than a slide rule"

seriously

11/11/2008 3:19:24 PM

Quote :

"People say bachelor's degrees are becoming obsolete, but that's not true. I personally believe that masters degrees are the least cost-effective of the degrees, and PhDs are where it really pays off. If you can find a program that bypasses the masters degree program and goes straight to PhD, monetarily-speaking, it's a sounder decision. That won't stop business undergrads from getting their MBA's, but I think master's programs are a waste of money."

This is dependent on the field of study. I've been told by multiple people in my department as well as the workforce that a PhD is essentially worthless unless you want to teach. It is more valuable to graduate with a Masters, get some work experience, and pass the PE.

11/11/2008 5:08:04 PM

joenumbers got a PhD in sales.

11/11/2008 5:20:54 PM

I couldn't imagine undergrad being that much easier....then again, I was a business major. I just have a feeling it was a lot more difficult 50 years ago.

11/11/2008 5:31:12 PM

Isn't it easier today since you can do a search on the internet to find sources that you need for a paper, of project?

11/11/2008 6:17:20 PM

Quote :

"I've been told by multiple people in my department as well as the workforce that a PhD is essentially worthless unless you want to teach. It is more valuable to graduate with a Masters, get some work experience, and pass the PE."

11/11/2008 6:20:24 PM

Quote :

"look all i know is id rather use a ti-89 than a slide rule"

I know right, you couldn't even play tetris on a slide rule

11/11/2008 6:48:26 PM

Quote :

"a PhD is essentially worthless unless you want to teach"

A doctorate is never worthless. Many NASA scientists have one or several PhDs. Masters degrees are over-rated, and PhD's are much more than just a method for becoming a professor.

11/11/2008 7:26:24 PM

ahahaha holy shit

there were still original ideas to be had in the 1950's or 60's?

yeah fucking right!

^ yeah you often cannot work for a think tank with anything less than a Ph.D or extraordinarily exceptional experience

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 7:28 PM. Reason : - I wants mines]

11/11/2008 7:27:16 PM

Quote :

" I personally believe that masters degrees are the least cost-effective of the degrees, and PhDs are where it really pays off."

the last stats i saw suggested just the opposite:

Master's tended to provide a much bigger salary increase than Ph.D.

11/11/2008 7:29:53 PM

It really depends on what you are moving towards. If you want a quick and dirty increase on your base salary, get an MBA. From what I've read, it can increase your base by 12% on average, but keep in mind, master degrees programs are not free. The time and money you spend paying off your debt for school may negate any immediate gains in your base salary. This is one of the biggest criticisms of master's degrees. Someone could make the same monetary gains by advancing in their careers in the job market, while a masters student is slaving away at an MBA. If you are trying to apply to a very specialized position at NASA for example, you may make more money than three MBA's combined, not to mention vastly increased job security. So my point is skip the masters, get the PhD, and open up higher fields of opportunity.

11/11/2008 7:40:09 PM

hay guyz, whats going on in here

and the correct answer is while the average college education has been diluted, there are still colleges and universities, including honors colleges inside both the large flagship and the small private, where rigorous scholarship can be pursued.

therein lies the true challenge; college can and should be as hard, or harder, than it was in the 50s and 60s, but because a bachelor's degree has changed from a privilege/choice to a necessity, it is now up to the student to seek that academic environment more than it is the school's responsibility to provide every student with the same extraordinary education.

slightly related: in many cases, colleges and universities, even those receiving large amounts of public monies, are slaves to either the endowment or the enrollment, and therefore it is in their best interest to keep as many students on the roster as possible, leading to both grade inflation and a general decrease in what it takes to stay in college 8+ semesters.

11/11/2008 7:44:23 PM

Quote :

"I personally believe that masters degrees are the least cost-effective of the degrees,"

if you can't get someone to fund at least 75% of your tuition/fees and pay you a living wage to get your masters degree, you shouldn't be going to get it yet...

11/11/2008 7:46:13 PM

The original question: hands down it's easier now simply b/c we have quicker access to information. Easier doesn't mean we don't come out with the same or more relevant knowledge though.

Most of ya'll commenting on the Masters vs PhD's appear to be basing their value on monetary return as opposed to personal gain. As mentioned they vary heavily from major to major.

For Electrical Engineering Dr Franzon has a very apt expression:

Quote :

"Bachelors test, Masters Design, PhD's create/conceptualize "

With a masters I am well suited to build things for people, however I'm not particularly qualified to go do bleading edge research on something that may or may not work entirely on my own. PhD's allow the technical freedom to receive funding to do such research.

Think Tanks do hire Bachelors and Masters degrees... at least I know that MIT Lincoln Labs does... once in the system if you show a particular drive, ambition, and aptitude they will let you take on your own projects.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 7:47 PM. Reason : vary != very]

11/11/2008 7:46:44 PM

Quote :

"if you can't get someone to fund at least 75% of your tuition/fees and pay you a living wage to get your masters degree, you shouldn't be going to get it yet..."

I completely agree. If you have the opportunity to get a masters through your current employer with minimal financial contribution, then obviously you should go for it. If you do not have that option and will need to go into debt, I think it's a very bad call. On the flip side, many PhD programs offer fellowships, which provide wonderful financial assistance compared to masters programs. Going into debt for a masters for an immediate 12% jump is not always the best financial decision. I say, spend the same amount of money by utilizing fellowships on a PhD program and open up even more opportunities for yourself down the road. Yes, it will take more time and devotion, but if you want to be considered for any job that you apply for, and have the only complaint of the employer be that "you are over-qualified," it's the right choice.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 8:06 PM. Reason : -]

11/11/2008 7:57:52 PM

My original thought was that the work load people in had in earlier days would be similar to a freshman in high school today. That might be giving the American education system way too much credit, though.

11/11/2008 8:15:32 PM

I'd say the material was probably easier but they also had far less resources.. I mean, they couldn't just look shit up online and get 12 different explanations for every kind of problem in nearly every subject like we can now. so, because of that i think the current curriculum is harder but that's a good thing.

11/11/2008 8:16:41 PM

^agreed

11/11/2008 8:17:17 PM

I used to follow that logic ^^^^ but

it's difficult to get funding for just a Masters without graduating suma from ugrad. Every professor I talked to wanted a PhD commitment b/c you can only START a project in 1.5 years and then they have to get somebody new.

Essentially you can't do integrated circuit design without a masters degree (not impossible though).

There were a tremendous number of factors that went into my return in addition to me wanting a better job. But the easiest thing for me was the fact that I was able to save enough money to pay for the first semester, got a loan for the 2nd semester and then paid for the 3rd semester by working last summer. I also know that I have a couple jobs waiting for me on the other side and I can pay off that loan within the first 3 months. I don't think anybody should pay for their own masters in a field that won't provide this type of financial incentive/security though...

The monetary increase isn't worth nearly as much as the increase in access to cool work. Working and getting the masters is one way to do it, but I wouldn't have been able to put nearly as much commitment into my projects if I was working full time. Without putting as much time in I wouldn't have gotten nearly as much from the classes in addition to respect from very influential professors. Every time I signed up for classes when I was working a new project would come along at work that wouldn't allow me to take the class. This happened for a solid year before I decided to just come back full time on my own.

[Edited on November 11, 2008 at 8:20 PM. Reason : Work kept getting in the way of taking classes]

11/11/2008 8:17:20 PM

i think collage was a lot harder back then for the following reasons:

no calculators - calculus and above suck balls and becomes much more time consuming

no computers - think about the scope of this. We take word processors for granted. They had TYPEWRITERS, and when the made a fuckup, they had to type the WHOLE PAGE AGAIN. And if they decided to make changes in their paper, they had to type the WHOLE THING AGAIN. This doesn't even cover things like spreadsheet, graphical design tools, music editors, etc.

no internet - no easily accessible data/info. Need some books for research? Look it up online.. OOOhh wait, we don't have one of those. Maybe I can email my paper in to my professor early.. Oooh wait, we still don't have one of those. Wonder what all my friends are doing right now.. hmm.. i'll check their away messages OOoohh.. wait, yep, that doesn't exist either. Shit, this sucks.

the library sucked then too - wanna do a topic search for some books for that hefty paper you're typing up on that typewriter? Can't, there aren't computers yet. You see those big, giant filing cabinets that look like they've been designed to hold a few metric tons of index cards? Yeah, well, you're now it's bitch. You will spend the next many hours sifting through those. Enjoy. Oh, and when you finally finish your search, you still have to go check and see if they're even on the shelves, because no computer or network exists to tell you.

your dorm sucked then too - A/C? What the fuck is air conditioning? Are you joking? Well, since you're going to be sweating your tits off you might as well stock your dorm room fridge full of some cold ones. Oh, wait, forgot. You don't have a fridge in your dorm room. Maybe you can take the heat off your mind by watching some tv. Oh, wait, you don't have one of those either. I guess there is always listening to some music on your ipod computer cd player tape deck record player. Fuck.

no cell phones - in fact, i don't even think they had phones in their rooms. You had a pay phone down the hall or a courtsey phone in the lounge. Wanna see what your friends in the next dorm over are doing? Get your ass walking. Late night in the library and you gotta walk back to your sucky ass dorm room alone? Tough shit, no escorts, have fun getting raped.

i can keep going on into things like professors that actually held you to strict academic integrity, etc, but I think collage sucked way more then than it does now.

11/11/2008 8:27:16 PM

^ collage, eh? I'll assume you were trying to be ironic, since you made the mistake twice.

That does sound pretty sucky. I didn't have AC or a TV my sophomore year, but I pretty much had everything else. Damn, academic integrity must have been a bitch.

11/11/2008 8:35:57 PM

Master's degrees are worthwhile if you need one on the way to a PhD, just a heads up.

11/11/2008 8:38:25 PM

^ I've heard "Master's-in-passing" PhD programs are getting popular.

11/11/2008 8:48:14 PM

I think it was harder then than it is now. I think the standards for getting into college was higher than it is now, and the quality of education was higher than it is now.

but then again, I think the quality of education in general was higher than what it currently is as well.

11/11/2008 8:53:46 PM

no, i just suck at spelling

11/11/2008 10:11:51 PM

my english teacher(rip mrs luke) in the 10th grade who was kinda old said her professor gave an 'f' automatically if it had even one misspelled word...the teacher said she had a dictionary and should not misspell anything...she told us this because like half our class got bad grades(like in the 'c' range) on a paper we had to do...she was like with yall having computers with spell check and shit, be happy that i dont fail you, because my professor did...she was one of those "hard on you" teachers no pedo that students think they hate but later in life they appreciate

11/11/2008 10:16:27 PM

I mean, if DnL is about to graduate, I think you have the answer to your question Spontaneous

11/11/2008 10:19:23 PM