Well it looks like my Saturn is finally about shit the bed. I hoped the new radiator and hoses would keep her strong for another year or so, but it looks like I'm in for another pricey estimate.

So, new DD time. Only dead-set requirements: It's got to have at least 4 seats, 25K absolute price ceiling, must be able to put a ski/bike rack on and it's got to be usable in rain, snow and ice.

Things I would really like, in order, but would give up for the right car/truck/price:

AWD/4WD
enough towing capacity to pull an open trailer + lotus
25+ combined mpg
will last me 5-7 years without major trouble

I'm open to cars, trucks and SUV's. I've been looking at everything from F150's to Impreza wagons, Audi A5/S4, Yota Tundra/4Runner, Silverado, Ford Focus, Mazda 3, BMW xi's, and a bunch of others.

It's so tough because trucks and SUV's are so fucking cheap right now, but realistically it would probably only be used for Lotus road trips 3-4 times a year.

Thoughts/Suggestions?

11/26/2008 6:39:40 AM

highway or city driving?

11/26/2008 6:58:23 AM

cant the lotus pull its own tire trailer? I cant imagine a lotus gets less then 30mph highway.

its still a street car right?

subaru 2.5rs babyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!

11/26/2008 7:25:13 AM

nevermind

11/26/2008 7:27:38 AM

How heavy is lotus + trailer? The Mazda CX-7 seems like it could fit the bill (reasonably sporty/stylish for an SUV, not too big, decent mileage) but towing capacity is listed as 2000 lbs, which might be a deal-breaker. MSRP is just over 25K and you'd have to add on the AWD option, but I imagine you could get out the door for 25 if you're a good negotiator. Or go slightly used.

11/26/2008 11:25:22 AM

The Subaru Forester might do everything you're talking about, but it's going to be close on towing the Lotus. I think they tow 2500 lbs.

11/26/2008 11:27:56 AM

and you will look extremely gay

11/26/2008 11:35:14 AM

tacoma?

11/26/2008 1:44:29 PM

Yeah, I'd look for a small truck. I love utilitarian cars like subarus or wagons, but I don't know of one that will tow a car trailer. Maybe with electric brakes. Good luck on that 25mpg though.

11/26/2008 1:53:08 PM

Tyler,

For what its worth, I have a 2001 Infinity QX4 and I love it. I have had absolutely no problems with it. I change the oil and filter every 5,000 miles. I did my front brakes on my own. Parts are fairly cheap and easily accessible. I got mine with heated seats front and rear, sunroof, HID headlights, multimedia package (DVD & LCD screen for rear passengers), navigation, electronic adjust seats in the front, 4WD on the fly and towing package. Its rated to tow 5,000 lbs. Its got the 3.5L VQ engine which is pretty stout. Gas mileage though is nowhere close to what you are looking for at around 18 mpg with a mix of highway and city driving (still not too bad though). But its a great daily driver, very comfortable and easy to drive. If you are looking for something not as luxurious you could go with the Nissan Pathfinder but you can't get one with HIDs.

11/26/2008 2:20:11 PM

TACOMA!

11/26/2008 2:25:11 PM

jeep liberty CRD..

i only say this because i have a friend that would scream this at you over and over. just another thing for you to consider.

[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 2:49 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2008 2:48:40 PM

Wow guys, these are really good suggestions!

For the trailer: I'm pretty much set on a Trailex (This model+options). It's under 900 lbs and has electric brakes. So with all my tools, tires/wheels et all, it should be ~3200lbs of stuff.

Driving the Lotus 2-3 hours to a track is fine, but come spring I'm going to make several trips to CA. And 16 hour trips in that car is not going to happen.

I will not be buying anything "new". A year or two old is about as new a car as I'll ever buy.

What does the CRD stand for?
Is there a crew/king cab option on the Tacoma? What's the gas mileage like?
I like the idea of the Mazda CX-7, but it's Auto-only, and a 4cyl SUV seems kind of lacking?

I guess I didn't put this on the original wish list, but I really hate automatic transmissions. If the deal was right, I'd take one (if the CX-7 came with a 6cyl option, I would be going to test drive one immediately), but auto tranny is meh.

Infiniti is just a pathfinder right? I think I'd rather spring for a 4Runner if I went that route. Luxury doesn't do much for me, except for those heated seats , 4WD and tow package.

Are there any crewcab trucks or SUV's/Crossovers that can pull 3k and get 25mpg+? Are there any hybrids out yet worth a damn in this category?

11/26/2008 5:58:23 PM

Remember a full moon is only once a month. A drive to CA sounds like an eclipse.

The first D is for daily.

Good luck.


I owned a CR-V, it was 126hp or so, 4 cylinder honda engine, BEST tank of gas was 26mpg all highway. That was with nothing but me (negligable weight). You couldnt pull yourself out of a ditch in that thing much less another vehicle (yes even a lotus).




[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 6:39 PM. Reason : .]

11/26/2008 6:35:39 PM

CRD = common rail diesel

Quote :

"Are there any crewcab trucks or SUV's/Crossovers that can pull 3k and get 25mpg+?"

I'm not hating, but do you honestly think anything could do that? I dont. Maybe if you have a diesel that runs with propane injection. I would expect any of the above mentioned vehicles to get no more than 20mpg while towing.


[Edited on November 26, 2008 at 7:01 PM. Reason : 0]

11/26/2008 6:57:39 PM

There is nothing I would want to drive everyday that I would also feel comfortable towing a car + trailer with for 16 hours. I would strongly suggest you find a new daily and a real truck to tow with.

11/26/2008 7:42:09 PM

My diesel gets 20MPG!

11/26/2008 8:13:49 PM

So does mine! But its only rated to pull 12k or so with the 6speed

11/26/2008 10:32:02 PM

Quote :

"There is nothing I would want to drive everyday that I would also feel comfortable towing a car + trailer with for 16 hours. I would strongly suggest you find a new daily and a real truck to tow with."

he has a good idea. get a real truck to tow with like theduke has and then get another real daily driver. you can accomplish both of those for FAR FAR less than your $25K budget and have much better vehicles to handle both tasks.

11/26/2008 10:49:43 PM

get an older Benz covert to WVO and then a newer diesel truck and convert it as well

Dodges keep their look pretty well


overall id say a toyota, i liked my ford explorer sport trac and it got around 22-25, you can find them for cheap now.

the QX4 mentioned would be good

A four runner would be a good one if you ask me, i always liked those rides, not sure what the MPG is on those though but they look good, pull well and last plus are cheap to maintain.

thats about all i got, the crossovers dont do much for me but nissan has some nice looking ones.

11/26/2008 11:06:08 PM

Noen, the CX-7's engine is turbocharged, with about 240hp. Its pretty good at getting the job done, or so I've read. I find it hard to believe it only tows 2000, that's ridiculous since I believe just about any car is rated to tow 1000.

11/26/2008 11:14:05 PM

my 2000 Toyota Solara is rated for 2000 lbs... but according to http://trucks.about.com/od/2007suvs/a/cx7_specs.htm it is only 2000lbs as well

[Edited on November 27, 2008 at 1:01 AM. Reason : ...]

11/27/2008 1:00:42 AM

Quote :

"I would strongly suggest you find a new daily and a real truck to tow with. "

11/27/2008 7:56:47 AM

good luck getting 25mpg and being able to tow a car too

put a 4bt in a small suv perhaps?

11/27/2008 11:33:10 AM

Quote :

"put a 4bt in a small suv perhaps?"

see, i was going to mention that in my previous post ITT, but nayed against it because I'm just not sure you could get the desired fuel consumption. I'm not saying i could be proved wrong, but im skeptical

11/27/2008 11:55:36 AM

yeah, you could always buy a shit hot DD (E46 330i/330ci, anyone?) for mid-teens, plenty of truck to tow a Lotus (and do any other truck chores you might need, and have 4x4 for when it snows around there. pretty much any truck would do) for $3-5k, and have $5k plus left over, with no compromises other than having to justify having 3 cars to yourself, and not being able to have it all in one vehicle.

11/27/2008 2:53:34 PM

Quote :

"What does the CRD stand for?"

yeah it is their common rail diesel as stated above

will pull 5k# and is epa rated for 22/27

11/27/2008 3:00:29 PM

^That's pretty bad ass.

Sporty isn't really a concern for me, so a Jeep with 22/27 would pretty much fit the bill perfectly I think.

But you guys make a REALLY good point. I was talking to my buddy in the hallway yesterday, that really I want a DD, truck, motorcycle and the Lotus.

I'm gonna check out the Jeeps, how is the reliability on their diesels? I've stayed away from Jeep for a long time because of the questionable reliability and terrible mpg, but 22/27 on something that can occasionally haul and has 4wd sounds just about perfect.

11/27/2008 3:32:19 PM

^ that's what I've come to accept, except that I'm ok with daily driving a sports car of pretty much any variety (well, I don't know if I could stomach a Seven or Atom), as long as I have something else when I need it.

I think when I get back from Iraq, I'm just going to snag a 350z for low-mid teens as a DD and occasional track-day car. It will also tow the PWC I'll buy when I get back. Only thing is that I need to disable the passenger airbag for my daughter.

Once I'm in a position to not spend half my time deployed or on training dets (i.e., either optempo slows down, or I rotate out of the operational forces in a couple of years), I'll get another serious sports car. C6 maybe? Viper? Forced-induction Lotus?

I already have a motorcycle (SV-650). I plan on keeping it until I leave for my next deployment in about a year, then selling it and getting another race-replica when I get back.

The thing I'm not sure about is a truck. I want something with 4x4, that can tow at least in moderation, with seating for 4+, and with solid offroad capability. I can't decide whether to go old skool (early Bronco, Scout, FJ40, etc), or newer and more suitable as a "real" car and not strictly a toy (Discovery, 90s model Land Cruiser). I also can't decide if I want to wait until I'm not gone all the time, or if I want to get ahead and get the truck now and keep it, then just sell the sports cars every time I deploy (again, until I get to a position to buy a really bad ass sports car).


The point is, while it seems ridiculous to have a stable of cars, it can make sense if you have the means to afford it (and often, it isn't particularly expensive to do). If you're not a "car guy", then yeah, a Camry will do all you want to do, but if you need a track day machine, something to tow and have 4x4 with, something with seating for more than 2-3, something that makes a good DD, something that gets reasonable fuel mileage, etc, it's impossible to have it all in one vehicle. Two vehicles can be a stretch.

If you don't want to DD the Lotus, and you have those requirements and limitations, and you will only occasionally need 4x4 and towing capacity, I'd much rather spend a good chunk of that money on a really, really GOOD (rather than acceptable) DD, then the rest (or less) on a good 4x4 tow rig (rather than something just acceptable or a little better). Get yourself something like an E46 (best easily affordable DD ever produced, in my opinion) and a Dakota 4x4, or Cherokee 4x4 (these are dirt cheap), etc, and spend less than you would on trying to get a single vehicle to do a half-ass job at all of your requirements.

11/27/2008 5:19:25 PM

Okay both you shits quiet down in my thread.

1) BB: Dude you posted a TSB list that is half a mile long. Half of those are not insignificant. By posting that and kiljadn's warning, I just ruled out Mazda 3's. So thanks to both of you.

There are 7 TSB's for the entire Lotus line, and I would consider it a hella more finicky car than a Mazda3 should be.

Quote :

"Have you thought to yourself "I'm going to have 60 grand in car(s)" 911 timeeeeeeeeeeeee"

a) I will never own a 911. Maybe, maybe a Cayman, maybe. Maybe.
b) I would still need another car with 4 real seats, and still want a winter vehicle for skiing, camping, road trips.

11/28/2008 4:10:47 PM

duh mini cooper

11/28/2008 5:03:08 PM

^^

I am just saying it would be hard to have less to show for 60 grand then your proposed fleet.

11/28/2008 7:29:56 PM

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/ctd/928734515.html

[Edited on November 28, 2008 at 8:20 PM. Reason : + 20G kit]

11/28/2008 8:17:00 PM

Quote :

"I am just saying it would be hard to have less to show for 60 grand then your proposed fleet."

My perfect world right now would be

06 Lotus
04-06 Audi A4
~90s F150/Silverado
80's Japanese cruiser

11/28/2008 9:01:40 PM

i wonder how many times ive seen this exact same argument in the garage over the years

11/28/2008 10:28:40 PM

I'd like to have the last like 9 posts just REMOVED from the thread.

Because I'm cool with BBR, Duke and Jadn. All three of you tards just need to go get a beer and stop internet arguing

11/28/2008 11:07:54 PM

I know 3-4 ppl with a Mazda with the 2.3 and none of them have ever had a problem. I love that car. Its fun to drive and looks good, and if I was in the market for that type of vehicle that's what I'd buy.

On the other hand I've known three people to own Mazda 626s and two of them have had the transmission (auto) shit the bed.

Does this make me not want a Mazda? No.

^just drop it. Only an idiot dismisses an entire manufacturer b/c of a few blemishes.

[Edited on November 29, 2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason : late night Tdub garage drama!!]

11/29/2008 12:54:44 AM

kiljadn, I'll attempt this, please try to read it with an open mind;

1: Though your experience may be more painful/fresh to you, it is one car out of many thousands and thus is statistically insignificant. If that problem was on 15 examples in the lot, and you could prove they were maintained/taken care of, it would still be insignificant.

2: The fact that you seem to consider TSBs to necessarily be a major indicator of some catastrophic failure shows several people on this forum that you do not have much experience in this regard.

3: It's easy to misread somebody on an internet message board, don't get your panties in a bunch when people disagree with you. I'm rather confident that the people who've tried to help you here do know "better" than you seem to. Yes there's lots of childish bs on the wolf web (which is why I find the site amusing and worth coming back to), but then there are a few people who do know what they're talking about. I consider the people you're arguing with to be on that rather short list.

Side note: Drive a 996 GT3, it's everything a sports car should be, and not a thing more. Resale has taken a hit recently. They're track ready out of the box, and you don't need to tow it there either. Regular 996 rear seats will drop in. I'm all for "dedicated" track cars, but the GT3 represents a car that's less of a compromise on track than most track only cars, and it's a hell of a lot more street-able than most as well. This also absolves you of having to put up with a not so much fun car most of the time while your Lotus sits lonely in the garage longing to be driven. Think of the Lotus, it doesn't want that...

11/29/2008 2:54:56 AM

without reading that wall of words, I would just like to reiterate that kiljadn was generalizing his experience with one engine to the manufacturer's entire product line without qualification, and consequently his argument can be fairly easily dismissed out of hand

I would also like to point out that two of the three people involved in that argument (as of the previous page) I respect as posters, and kiljadn is not one of them

back on topic, I vote for the DD+truck combo

[Edited on November 29, 2008 at 5:16 AM. Reason : .]

11/29/2008 5:14:52 AM

^^^

Quote :

"Regardless of the fact that you obviously aren't familiar with the issue - if you see 4 cars that are exactly the same as one that you're considering buying, you'd be a goddamned buffoon to even consider buying one. Who takes a chance on buying something that has a greater likelihood of failure? ESPECIALLY when they're dumping their current DD due to maintenance issues?"

^^

Quote :

"I understand what they're for - to illustrate potential problems with vehicles to owners and mechanics alike."

^ Pizza delivery boy.

Quote :

"....ultimately all I see here is a huge fucking circle jerk."

Bye kids.

11/29/2008 9:50:58 AM

later doosh

11/29/2008 4:54:57 PM

is kiljadn that great of a troll or is he really that fucking stupid/incompetent?

sorry to shit up your thread Noen.

11/29/2008 6:28:20 PM

haha, this has turned into a hilarious thread. Noen, sorry to be the instigator of ruining your thread, but it was an ignorant statement followed up with more ignorant statements that needed to be addressed (or jerked off on with my e-dick, whatever). writing off an entire brand of vehicles for no real reason isn't some minor detail. i've seen you defend saturns enough in similar situations that i'm sure you can understand the need to make the point.

if you are/were seriously considering a mazda, don't let what either of us posted make up your mind. his experience/knowledge in this arena is clearly lacking, and the list of tsb's i posted isn't abnormally long at all and doesn't begin to tell the whole story of whether or not they're a good model. in fact, in terms of the number of tsb's on there, i'd probably consider it to be "average" if not "better than average" for a vehicle that's been in production for a few years now. as for any of those tsb's being anything to really be concerned about, i can't say. i didn't read through each one. what i've posted is simply the titles, the actual tsb may to may not be as "serious" as the title sounds. what i do know is none of them deal with any issues of low oil pressure/faulty tensioners.

kiljadn, i hope you're just on a mission of elaborate trolling. i fear that's not the case, though. it seems you've taken some deep, personal offense to being wrong. your argument is hollow and the personal insults are equally as lame. you're so upset at the prospect of us judging you, yet i don't see how your responses are filled with anything towards myself and others that have told you you're being silly. you may very well be a secret automotive genius, i have no idea. what i do know is that even IF that's the case, your genius has horribly failed you in this thread.

look, the main issue and point here is you want to keep harping on your personal car having this problem and three other cars at the dealer having that problem as if it's something of merit or out of the ordinary. it's not, at all. have you ever worked at a dealership? along with others on here, i have. i can assure you that on any given day, it's hardly uncommon to find multiple cars of the same model in for the same problem. i mean hell man, even common sense should tell you that, it's a damn dealership that sells the things! it's also hardly noteworthy to get some random dumbass tech to tell you a certain problem is common. no shit certain things are going to seem common to them, for any number of reasons. they're job is to only fix the broken cars, not to think about all the others out there that don't have the problem. they also don't consider the possibility that the reason this one problem might stick out so much is because the model is so reliable they rarely need to have anything else repaired. consider that a large number of mechanics probably have the IQ of a 10 year old, and you can understand why that simple reasoning process rarely occurs.

it's certainly your right/choice if you want to not buy a certain brand based on your arguments here. don't expect the rest of us to be so ignorant though. plain and simple, you were and continue to be wrong about mazda having some huge, widespread problem on there hands. no amount of your arguing, insulting, or otherwise dancing around the FACTS is going to change that. you've got the time to type out these long winded replies, but don't have the time to give us any real evidence like finding this elusive TSB? right.

11/30/2008 2:57:24 AM

I don't care either way. I consider all three of yall my friends, and all of this is fucking silly as hell to even argue about in the first place, much less to CONTINUE to argue about.

You are both throwing eDick on both sides, neither of you is "right" or "wrong". so just cut it, and give me my damn thread back. Hopefully sparky will moderate all this shit out soon

So, back on topic: What's a CRD Liberty going to cost me? What are the tradeoffs?

11/30/2008 6:16:17 AM

The tradeoff is that it sucks dog dick as a car, and isn't really a great truck (though it would be "truck" enough to tow your Exige).

Come on, dude...E46 and a pickup.

11/30/2008 6:52:09 AM

It would seriously be easier to buy one car that can do it all then maintain the used car lot. I think the lotus is cool but it isnt fast. I know the evo is ugly but it would be something to consider.

Sorry to be such a hater I just cant see a larger waste of that money!

11/30/2008 8:58:21 AM

yeah, Evo is an option. Makes a great daily driver in terms of practicality, and has AWD for living on the Puget sound. Reasonably price, ridamndiculously fast for the money (a IX will run 11s for about $1000, maybe $1500 worth of bolt-ons). Out handles anything else I've ever driven other than arguably a C6 Z51 (haven't gotten to drive my other friend's C6 Z06 yet ). Has the best steering I've ever seen. Gets 20 mpg or so.

It's a little crude in some ways--no cruise control (you could always add it), interior is absolute shit (except for the outstanding seats), and it's on the loud side (but I bet it's better than an Exige).

I know you have a boner for the Lotus and probably wouldn't entertain the idea at all, but it would be the one vehicle that would actually cover all of your bases by itself.

A C6 would do the trick, too (good DD and could very easily drive it to the track). Only thing it would be missing is AWD and seating for more than 2 (if you need that).

If you are absolutely dead-set on keeping the Exige, I still say to spend $13k-16k and get a nice 330i/330ci, and then something like a K1500/F150/older Tahoe/Cherokee/Grand Cherokee/etc for $4k-5k. Either that, or suck it up and DD the Exige, then just spend a few thousand on a truck for ski trips and towing.

[Edited on November 30, 2008 at 10:03 AM. Reason : At least drive an Evo before you make a decision. You'll be shocked--I was a hater until I drove 1.]

[Edited on November 30, 2008 at 10:05 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

[Edited on November 30, 2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason : asdfad]

11/30/2008 10:01:49 AM

he could GAIN money by switching

11/30/2008 3:16:07 PM

that's what I'm saying. He could pick up a IX for $25k or less. Probably even find a low mileage, clean, sun/sound/leather/HID package example. Hell, for less than $30k, he could lower and stiffen the suspension a little, have it running high 11s in the quarter, buy a nice ski roof rack, a spare set of cheap wheels with all-season tires (or Blizzaks or something). By the $30k mark, it would be in the mid 11s if power is what he wants, or it could be riding on coil-overs.

For <$30k, also, he could have a C6 Z51...for $30-32k, it could be DEEEEP into the 11s.

If he still wanted a 4-seater with 4x4 (not that he'd need a tow rig anymore), he could get a Cherokee for $2500-5000 (or even less if he was ok with a beater).

Neither the Evo nor the C6 is an Exige, and if he is absolutely dead-set on that, then more power to him, but it will effectively cost him a shit ton of money, in the difference in the price of the cars, and due to the fact that he will have to have 2 cars, minimum, and really should have 3 to support his Lotus habit (without compromising anything else). That means compromises in other places in the big picture, though, unless money is simply no factor.

It's a matter of whether or not owning the Exige is worth a premium of tens of thousands of dollars over, say, an Evo or a C6 'Vette. I'm a Lotus fan, for sure, but for me, there's no way to justify that (although I'd just DD the Lotus), especially when the Exige is not "better" from a sports car standpoint than either the Evo or the 'Vette...just way, way different (and really, either the Evo or the 'Vette offer substantially more total performance (at least with minimal modifications on the Evo).

[Edited on November 30, 2008 at 3:40 PM. Reason : sadfasd]

11/30/2008 3:32:58 PM

The Lotus will be kept. If for no other reason than because of the current economy. Bad economy makes specialty cars drop. If I were to sell it now, I would take a several thousand dollar hit extra because of the economic situation.

And the "blah or blah is faster" argument just doesn't hold weight with me. *I* would not be any faster or get any more enjoyment out of an Evo or a vette. I've owned a vette, I loved it, it does not hold a candle to the Lotus. I've driven multiple AWD vehicles, loved them, does not hold a candle to the Lotus on a road track. If I ever venture into rally, there will be AWD in my future.

We are talking about a DD here. I don't care about my DD doing an 11 second quarter mile. I don't care about it handling like a race car, or its quarter mile times. What I care about is reliability, versatility and oop expenditures.

11/30/2008 5:20:14 PM