Quote :

"WASHINGTON - U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has asked retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Scott Gration, one of his top foreign policy and military advisers during his campaign, to take the helm of NASA, according to a source informed of the selection. An announcement is expected as soon as Wednesday. he would be the first NASA administrator in history to be announced before the inauguration of an incoming president. Gration, a decorated fighter pilot who held senior policy positions in the military prior to his retirement, is a virtual unknown to the space community, but has some experience with NASA. In 1982, as a captain and fighter pilot instructor recently returned from Kenya, Gration spent a year as a White House Fellow working for NASA's deputy administrator at the time, Hans Mark. Gration's lack of space experience should not preclude him from being qualified for the job, said John Logsdon, a space policy expert here. "There are lots of NASA administrators who have come from other areas without a background in space," he said. "You want a guy who is a leader and can manage a large organization." As a pilot Gration logged more than 1,000 hours of combat missions, according to the Air Force's Web site. He retired from active duty in October 2006. He went on to campaign for Obama alongside former Navy Secretary Richard Danzig and retired Gen. Merrill McPeak, former Air Force chief of staff, as part of Obama's national security policy working group. Gration led the retired generals tribute during the National Democratic Convention in August, telling the audience he is a former Republican who met then-Sen. Obama in 2005 while serving as director of strategy, plans and policy at U.S. European Command. "That's when I met a leader unlike any I had met before," he said. "He asked tough questions, and he didn't settle for easy answers. It was this same way of thinking that led him to get it right, when he opposed the war in Iraq, when he warned of its consequences. That's the judgment of a leader." After their meeting in 2005, Gration accompanied Obama on a five-nation, 15-day tour of Africa in 2006. Gration, the son of missionary parents, spent part of his childhood in the Congo and speaks Swahili fluently, according to a Newsweek article published in August 2007. He joined the Air Force in 1974 through the Air Force Reserve Officer Training Corps at Rutgers University in New Brunswick, N.J., where he earned a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering. He earned a master's degree in national security studies from Georgetown University in Washington in 1988."

I'm not too sure about this. Two things that worry me: 1) What are Gration's intentions with the current space program (IE Project Constellation) and 2) I'd think Obama would appoint someone with more of a science/engineering background. I'm sure that Gration is a fine leader and an intelligent guy, but look at his educational background compared to that of the current NASA administrator, Mike Griffin:

BS Physics Johns Hopkins University 1971
MS Aerospace Science The Catholic University of America 1974
PhD Aerospace Engineering University of Maryland, College Park 1977
MEng Electrical Engineering University of Southern California 1979
MS Applied Physics Johns Hopkins University 1983
MBA Master of Business Administration Loyola College in Maryland
MEng Civil Engineering The George Washington University 1998

http://www.space.com/news/090113-obama-nasa-administrator.html

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 2:18 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2009 2:17:57 PM

Go to mars or atleast set up some moon colonies. I mean come on. You guys are slackin

1/14/2009 2:22:07 PM

Yes, but Mike Griffin is a highly controversial figure at the moment.

1/14/2009 2:22:27 PM

Griffin may be highly controversial but he knows his stuff. And he has a really goofy/funny smile.

1/14/2009 2:27:08 PM

Cool, sounds like someone who will slash the wasteful NASA budget and put an end to manned exploration immediately. Seriously, we can't afford this shit right now.

1/14/2009 2:28:54 PM

Actually a manned flight to Mars or the moon would probably do more for science than anything else the fed could spend money on. The moonshot generated a ton of interest in the fields of science and engineering which would be way more valuable than keeping failed companies afloat for 3 more months.

1/14/2009 2:32:29 PM

I'm not sure I see the problem. Mike Griffin has loads of degrees that would be useful in NASA, but only one that might be specifically useful in running it, that being the "Business Administration." Which is not to say that he's an incompetent manager, only that his educational background may not have so much to do with his quality. Gration was an officer in charge of people and, later, policy, for 34 years.

1/14/2009 2:35:54 PM

agreed

man probably has not done any real engineering work in years

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 2:39 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 2:38:48 PM

Actually you guys would probably be surprised at how much engineering work Mike Griffin does do. I've never actually met him (he was at a NASA party I went to a few months ago but I didn't get a chance to talk to him), but a few of my coworkers have said that he's been listening in on some teleconferences in big meetings they have been at and has even thrown in his opinions on certain topics a number of times.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2009 2:42:41 PM

Quote :

"the moonshot generated a ton of interest in the fields of science and engineering"

Only because the US Government pumped a shitload of money into the private sector to build the damn thing. I couldn't care less if little Timmy decides to be a rocket scientist when he grows up but is soon smashed by the soul-crushing boot of reality and instead becomes a middle school teacher that gets hit with spitballs while he drives the bus.

The truth is that very little useful science came from the moon landing that couldn't have been gained much more cheaply from unmanned missions. Just like Mars, the moon is a giant lifeless rock...great for geologist to twiddle fuck around on, but absolutely silly and pointless as a national goal.

1/14/2009 2:42:49 PM

Quote :

"but absolutely silly and pointless as a national goal."

Not true.

You just have no creativity.

1/14/2009 3:10:39 PM

^^I respect your opinion but there is only so much data that you can gather from probes, sensors, and computers. Humans in space are able to adapt and interpret info way better than any computer can.

1/14/2009 3:23:39 PM

If we're not going to try to expand human knowledge whats the fucking point?

1/14/2009 3:31:21 PM

I could argue a case for helium 3 in the lunar regolith, but I would be talking out of my ass.

1/14/2009 3:32:24 PM

Quote :

"I respect your opinion but"

THIS IS WHY Wraith PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF!

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 3:42 PM. Reason : BOILING OVER WITH ANGER!!!]

1/14/2009 3:41:40 PM

^haha.

Alright, let's do the numbers.

The Mars Rovers cost $820m each(not counting the 2/3 failure rate of other probes, of course)
When the Hubble Space Telescope is retired soon, total cost on the project will be $6bn.
The Apollo moon landings cost $150bn
A manned mission to mars is estimated to cost $1,000bn

According to the World Bank, global poverty could be alleviated(temporarily) for $50bn

Ask any scientist, and they'll tell you that the benefits of the Mars probes and Hubble have far exceeded any manned missions.

So here's the question. Who does more for the benefit of mankind: the man that stands on a mountain, or the man that feeds, harnesses and understands the valley?

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 3:55 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 3:54:13 PM

Oh you wanna talk numbers then? Do you realize just how little of the federal budget NASA gets? Seriously it's something like 0.7%. I think that was about $17 billion for 2008. For comparison, the government spent something along the lines of $600 billion on military stuff. Take, for example, a single B-2 bomber. It costs about $2 billion. That's roughly 4 and a half shuttle missions, and the Ares program alone is a lot cheaper than the shuttle missions.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 4:23 PM. Reason : and I'm not even mentioning there how much NASA has stimulated the economy]

1/14/2009 4:21:44 PM

you should hear ow much the B3 Stealth Space Shuttle costs.

1/14/2009 4:54:53 PM

The only reason I can come up with that Obama wants someone who is seemingly unqualified for the job is to "shake things up."
Being retired Air Force, he must have at least a decent foundation in Aerospace. And being a General he would know how to run high stress environments with lots of people involved. he also hasn't been in the space community, so he could call out things that are fucked up.
But this could also be the build up to the biggest blunder in NASA history.

1/14/2009 4:57:11 PM

because obviously what you hang on your wall determines what your abilities would be?


i do nuclear stuff for the navy and 2 of my best nuclear engineering officers were Political Science and English majors from the naval academy...

1/14/2009 5:00:28 PM

How much shake up was there after they lost the Columbia?

1/14/2009 5:02:00 PM

^x5 So waste justifies waste? Of course military spending is out of control. Everyone knows this. You'll have to do better than that.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:02 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 5:02:13 PM

the mars rovers are great for certain things, but we could accomplish what the mars rovers did in their entire mission in about a day with a person on the ground in a spacesuit. i personally think that the probes and rovers are great and provide lots of very useful information. i think they must work in tandem with humans though. there is much to learn about our solar system, and with probes and rovers (especially), if there are any unforeseen circumstances, the things are basically fucked.

not only do manned missions capture the imagination of the world, they also provide knowledge of how our bodies work in extreme environments. it will also inevitably teach us how to settle in outer space. as a species we will have to get to this point eventually or become extinct. so why not get the leg up? for all we know, the first people to truly develop manned colonies on other planets might reap huge rewards of mineral deposits or god knows what else.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:27 PM. Reason : kinda rambly now that i read it]

1/14/2009 5:23:29 PM

Quote :

"the mars rovers are great for certain things, but we could accomplish what the mars rovers did in their entire mission in about a day with a person on the ground in a spacesuit."

i'm sorry, but thats just not true at all

1/14/2009 5:39:31 PM

i guess not. they could have done far more. because they could react to their surroundings.

for instance. one of the rovers spent weeks just backing itself out of getting stuck in the sand (because the operators basically didn't know it was getting stuck in the sand until it was too late). the rovers are great and they did well for their limitations. but if it weren't for one chance windstorm, one of them wouldn't have accomplished anything because it couldn't power up.

all i'm getting at here is that when something is fragile and is controlled remotely from a different planet. every step takes a very long time and there are lots of limitations that a person would not have.

of course there are lots of limitations when putting a biological life-form in that environment. problems of food,oxygen, temperature, etc. would be difficult. but this is assuming those problems are worked out.

[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 5:45 PM. Reason : .]

1/14/2009 5:44:49 PM

it's not necessarily a good thing to have the biggest egghead-phd-know-it-all being the CEO of a massive organization like NASA.

the CEO's job is not to know every single technical detail.

the CEOs job is to lead a group of leaders who are themselves collectively capable of managing every single technical detail.

1/14/2009 6:48:21 PM

It's their own fault, really:

Quote :

"NASA administrator Mike Griffin is not cooperating with President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team, is obstructing its efforts to get information and has told its leader that she is “not qualified” to judge his rocket program, the Orlando Sentinel has learned. In a heated 40-minute conversation last week with Lori Garver, a former NASA associate administrator who heads the space transition team, a red-faced Griffin demanded to speak directly to Obama, according to witnesses."

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2008/12/nasa-has-become.html

1/14/2009 8:11:36 PM

Quote :

"Mike, I don’t understand what the problem is. We are just trying to look under the hood,” Garver said. “If you are looking under the hood, then you are calling me a liar,” Griffin replied. “Because it means you don’t trust what I say is under the hood."

egghead know-it-all. the dude has too goddamned many degrees. he thinks he's a demigod, or something.

see this is what i'm talking about. you can't be a CEO of a public company or government agency and act like that. this is not an example of leadership.






[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 8:22 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2009 8:16:36 PM

griffin sounds like a douche

1/14/2009 8:18:42 PM

hate to say so, but so does the OP...

he got his BS in aerospace engineering a year ago, and now he's

Quote :

"Biography : Graduated in May 2007, now I'm working down in Huntsville, AL for NASA at Marshall Space Flight Center. I literally am a rocket scientist! http://www.thewolfweb.com/user_info.aspx?user=9794 "

"rocket scientist" indeed. I guess that explains his automatic support for Griffin. I shouldnt judge too hard on him, though. he's likely worried for his job.






[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 8:34 PM. Reason : ]

1/14/2009 8:31:17 PM

if he wants to motive NASA to go to Mars, he should of appointed Arnold

1/14/2009 8:48:39 PM

Most of Griffin's experience has been executive experience in the industry. Wraith's post is misleading because it focuses entirely on his academic credentials.

Also, there is certainly nothing in this thread that shows why Gration is good or better than Griffin.

Quote :

"In 2006, he traveled to Africa on a five-nation, fifteen-day, fact-finding tour, accompanying Senator Barack Obama as an "African expert".[2] He later endorsed Obama's presidential campaign, citing that Obama had the "judgment, wisdom, courage, experience, and leadership capability that we desperately need".[3] He has publicly campaigned for Obama, and alongside Richard Danzig and General Merrill McPeak, he is one of his senior military and foreign-policy advisors."

How good can his judgement be?


[Edited on January 14, 2009 at 9:14 PM. Reason : Hope he at least has some creativity and ambition.]

1/14/2009 9:12:00 PM

Hey now there is no need for personal attacks. joe_schmoe, I don't know what you have against me but I don't see what I said that sounds douchey. Yeah I got my degree in 2007 but that doesn't make me any less of an aerospace engineer (I'm not sure why you would even attack my credentials but whatever). And I support Griffin because I've been working on the Ares program the entire time I've been here and Griffin has done a great job as the administrator. There are a lot of NASA employees that disagree with the Ares program, some even to the extent that they resigned from their positions, so I'm not just blindly following him because of the field I work in.

1/14/2009 10:41:42 PM

Quote :

"But this could also be the build up to the biggest blunder in NASA history."

man, obama would have to appoint a really shitty guy to directly outdo columbia, challenger, apollo 13, and apollo 1

1/14/2009 11:47:00 PM

Quote :

"Actually you guys would probably be surprised at how much engineering work Mike Griffin does do."

Maybe, but that doesn't make him particularly well-qualified for a top leadership role. Leslie Groves wasn't as well-qualified as Oppenheimer, but that worked out OK (at least for us).

Quote :

"According to the World Bank, global poverty could be alleviated(temporarily) for $50bn"

This isn't just a sack of shit

It's not even an enormous sack of shit

Hell, colossal doesn't even begin to describe the size of this particular sack of shit

Amounts of money have far less to do with poverty and starvation than the incompetence and corruption of governments do.

$50 billion dollars would disappear faster than a fifth of whiskey at a GrumpyGOP party, each having been given to the relevant recipient.

1/15/2009 2:17:50 AM

hey Wraith

my point was that people call themselves titles incorrectly. it kind of annoys me, i guess. essentially:

4-year BS engineer != scientist.
2 year tech degree != engineer
1 year CNA != nurse
vet tech != nurse
combat medic != doctor.



sorry for attacking you though.

take comfort in knowing that im really just a small, hard and bitter shell of a man.

1/15/2009 3:26:17 PM

we went to the moon to beat the Russians to it -- in other words for national security reasons.

if we re-engage outer space in any impactful way, it will be for long term goals relating to national security as well as competition for resources. perhaps a missle defense system to start with (within a decade or two), followed by mining operations on the moon, then Mars, then Ganymede...

...shut up Sru. shut up and get back to work...

1/15/2009 3:51:39 PM

Quote :

"(I'm not sure why you would even attack my credentials but whatever)."

Wraith

That's just schmoe's MO. He claims to be some sort of engineer, yet we have no hard evidence of this--we do know that he changes jobs rather frequently. And he attacks the credentials of others without any real knowledge of their education, training, and experience.

Quote :

"take comfort in knowing that im really just a small, hard and bitter shell of a man."

joe_sadsack

You've taken the first step. . . .

1/15/2009 5:44:28 PM

by engaging in ad homs right back, you are just as bad. i don't know why i bother though. the both of you are hopeless.

1/15/2009 5:59:04 PM

^^ all we know about you, oldsaw, is that you're an ex-jailer who lost his job as a a TA for some freshman English class.

...and that you've lost a lot of your hair.

1/15/2009 8:17:31 PM

^ he also recently got married to someone much younger (allegedly) than himself .

1/15/2009 8:23:49 PM

from what i understand, he just cut out a photo shoot from Maxim, and declared himself "married"

and ive not seen any evidence to dictate otherwise.... no matter how many times he talks about his "hot" wife with her "three bachelors degrees"

1/15/2009 8:27:39 PM

Well although my official title is aerospace engineer, I do design and analysis on the Ares I rocket, so I guess if you wanna be picky I'm a rocket engineer.

Quote :

"we went to the moon to beat the Russians to it -- in other words for national security reasons."

Take a look at the Chinese space program. China is obviously one of the largest threats to national security these days and probably will be in the future. Obviously it's not as big of a deal as it was with Russia back in the 50s, but what they are doing in space is definitely something to keep an eye on.

1/15/2009 10:44:50 PM

Let's fight the Chinese on Mars so we don't have to fight them here!

1/16/2009 12:07:24 AM

^I'm totally for that just as long as we get to use lasers!


btw - Griffin just delivered his farewell speech to NASA and when asked if he knew anything on what the new administrations position was on Project Constellation, he said he didn't. So I guess we'll have to wait a few more days to find anything out.

1/16/2009 1:23:40 PM

bump

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29409076/

Quote :

"WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is proposing moderate increases in space spending. Obama emphasizes global warming research and continues plans to retire space shuttles next year while eventually returning astronauts to the moon. The $18.7 billion proposal for the budget year starting Oct. 1 is 6 percent more than President George W. Bush asked for last year. The Obama proposal essentially keeps the space agency on the course set by Bush. It would retire the shuttles in 2010, land people on the moon by 2020 and go five years relying on Russia for rides into orbit. The president wants to add one space shuttle flight next year. The spending highlight in Obama's plan is for tracking global warming from space, a major change from previous years."

2/26/2009 12:11:05 PM

wtf is going on

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason : internet going crazy]

2/26/2009 12:11:06 PM

double post

[Edited on February 26, 2009 at 12:12 PM. Reason : ]

2/26/2009 12:12:02 PM

I wish there would have been more space spending in the stimulus bill. Obama doesn't seem much different than Bush in regards to the space program, which isn't bad but not good either. Hopefully the private sector will take off(no pun intended), but the resources required for establishing a real presence in space is some what overwhelming for anyone but governments.

2/26/2009 5:13:19 PM

Quote :

"establishing a real presence in space"

WE MUST NOT ALLOW A SPACE-PRESENCE GAP!!!

2/26/2009 5:21:21 PM