the story:In early December I received a garmin 760 gps as a door prize. It was new in the box with all the paperwork. It was something I wouldn't get much use out of so I sold it on ebay to buy something I would use like a Wii. He paid with an Echeck from Paypal and it did not clear until Dec. 23. I shipped that day and it got to him on the 27th. I offered faster shipping for the actual price and he did not indicate he wanted it faster. The buyer contacted me in late December about the unit not working correctly and stated that it told him to turn after he passed the street he wanted to turn on. I told him to contact Garmin for service issues. I haven't heard anything else until this afternoon, he says it doesn't work at all now. I have a photograph of the unit powered on and all of the packaging that was used for the listing. This guy has left me good feedback, he has a .vz email address and emails in broken English. I think he is trying to hustle me, if it dosen't work he should contact Garmin, its a new unit under warranty and he has the warranty card. Should I tell him to suck it? The GPS worked when I sent it to him. Thanks tww.

1/19/2009 10:02:34 PM

yup

unless you specifically stated a return policy, he's out of luck

telling him to talk to garmin is the right thing to do

1/19/2009 10:06:03 PM

Sounds to me like it's his problem. I'd tell him these are issues he's going to need to contact Garmin about, because you can't do anything about them, and the unit you sent him was a good one.

I mean, what the hell does he expect you to do about this:

Quote :

"The buyer contacted me in late December about the unit not working correctly and stated that it told him to turn after he passed the street he wanted to turn on."

1/19/2009 10:06:56 PM

1/19/2009 10:09:03 PM

^ nice

I did state return if defective within seven days, but it wasn't defective, and its been good enough for him for this long. I have cleared out my paypal account and the account at my bank that they have access to, and contacted my bank about blocking paypal. I think its buyers remorse, or he wanted it for christmas and didn't make his stuff move fast enough. I have 100% positive feedback even from him, so to hell with it. Thanks,TWW

[Edited on January 19, 2009 at 10:38 PM. Reason : If it was bad when he got it, thats one thing, but its his now, he has had it for nearly a month. ]

1/19/2009 10:25:02 PM

it worked when you sent it
it worked when he received it
it worked within the 7 day return period you specified
you already have the positive feedback

i'd ignore all future communications, or tell him to suck it. your choice

1/19/2009 11:04:47 PM

^^^ aha that was my first thought

1/19/2009 11:09:52 PM

i'm going to piggyback on this ebay thread with my own recent ebay problem (I thought there was a "perpetual ebay problem thread" somewhere. i can't find it though)


I sold a nice, barely used bike-helmet last week.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&item=160321481662
During the auction, a guy emailed and asked if I would ship to Thailand. I said OK, as long as you pay the extra shipping.

He ended up winning, I got a USPS quote for $35 shipping, he paid in full, and I sent it to him. We emailed back and forth a couple times, and he was up front about everything and paid without any questions. I double-boxed the helmet with tons of padding inside the first box, then another layer of padding inside the 2nd box. The pictures in the ebay page were taken the day I started auction - clearly the helmet is in nearly perfect condition. With the way I packaged it, the boxes would have to be nearly destroyed to damage the helmet.

So today, i get this email from him:

Quote :

"Hi, I just got the aero helmet from you today. By your description, the condition of the helmet is nearly new, especially no crash (actually, there is no need to explain the condition of the helmet. You knew it!) After I opened the box and checked it, it's absolutely different from what you said. The major defect is this helmet is broken at the back of the left year. It'very obvious. It's a result from crash or hard impact. I am very upset. It's not in conditional for putting on. It's garbage. This is a fraud. I will inform this issue to eBay/PayPal formally for full refund soonest."

so many red-flags in that email alone.... the broken english, the "This is fraud" statement, etc. I think it's pretty clear that he is trying to get a refund, then is going to resell the helmet himself.

Being cordial, I wrote him back for some more information:

Quote :

"Hi - I can assure you the helmet was in nearly perfect condition when it was shipped. The pictures that were on auction were taken immediately before I started the auction, and the helmet was in the same condition when I packaged it. I will issue you a refund under two conditions, since the helmet was in good condition when I shipped it. 1) Take pictures of the helmet as it is now, showing close up detail of the damage 2) Mail the helmet back to me. I will even reimburse you for the return postage. I believe I have shown you more than good-faith in the whole process, from the first time you asked me if I would ship the helmet to Thailand, through to me sending you a copy of the customs form required for the international shipping. If you do not send me pictures of the helmet and mail it back to me, I will not issue a refund and I will dispute any claims of fraud you make to ebay or paypal. "

so instead of responding to the email, he goes ahead and opened a paypal dispute, and paypal has pulled $105 into its escrow service. I already responded again through the paypal dispute service and said I will not issue a refund unless and until he proves there is an actual problem with the helmet.

I see on the paypal dispute page there is an option to "Escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim", which says a paypal representative will take control and personally decide a "winner" issue or not-issue a refund, no questions asked.

Anyone had any luck on paypal disputes, where you are clearly in the right? I don't want to "escalate" the issue yet, so see if he backs down.
Has anyone see something similar, where you ship something, especially overseas, and you suspect the recipient is trying to screw you out of a refund?

3/30/2009 10:45:00 PM

Quote :

"telling him to talk to garmin is the right thing to do"

precisely. If it was truly new in the box and unopened, then it is Garmin's problem not yours.

and if he has already given you good feedback, then fuck him

[Edited on March 30, 2009 at 10:48 PM. Reason : a]

3/30/2009 10:48:07 PM

^ i'm sure over 2 1/2 months ago he'd have appreciated that answer?

^^ did you really not add on insurance for a shipment to thailand? if you are in the right there is no reason not to think that ebay/paypal won't side with you especially since you are going through the right channels to contact and be courteous

3/30/2009 10:50:19 PM

fuck your mother

3/30/2009 10:53:29 PM

yeah, but how would ebay/paypal know who is right? seems to me either one of us could be lying our asses off (hint: it's not me) and i don't know how ebay could figure that out

3/30/2009 10:54:04 PM

paypal covers most of what you need "to win" in their documents about seller protections policies, claims, and the like.

they are very particular with how things are tracked/insured/etc.

it will help you that he is claiming it is broken rather than missing since that he can easily "prove" with a photo. i believe it also states that their claim service is a last resort. showing that you had contacted him prior to this and offered a reasonable solution should make them double check his story as well.

3/30/2009 11:27:24 PM

yeah, and his claim for how the helmet is broken is totally bogus.

I could maybe accept that it was damaged during shipping, since it did go all the way to Asia. However,
1) i really did do a good job of packing, with the double boxes
2) if it was damaged during shipping, it would likely have crushed the "tail" portion of the helmet, which is the most fragile. The portion he claims is cracked could only come from a very hard, very direct strike at that location. It is, after all, a helmet, which is made to hold up to very hard strikes. As such, he is claiming that I intentionally mailed him a crashed helmet.
3) the box would have been utterly destroyed to damage the helmet, and he didn't say anything about box damage


i'll just wait for his reply, i guess. I countered him on paypal, though, within 30 minutes of his claim, and he hasn't replied yet

3/30/2009 11:54:55 PM

.

3/31/2009 12:20:41 AM

I have filed a Paypal claim when someone sold me an obviously defective item, so I can shed a little light on it.

First, Paypal will require him to get some sort of proof that it is damaged. For me they wouldn't just accept that the item (a dehumidifier) did not work. I even supplied pictures showing that the coils on the radiator were bent and punctured, but that wasn't good enough. As a final solution I got an independent company (a friend of mine who owns an electrical contracting business) to write a letter saying that it was physically damaged and would not function. I actually wrote the letter and he just printed it on his letterhead and signed it. After that Paypal agreed that I deserved a refund.

If Paypal does agree that the item is damaged and the person deserves a refund he will have to ship it back to you at his expense. He doesn't just get to keep the item and re-sell it. He has to provide a tracking number to Paypal as well, so he'll have to pay for tracking on the package. More than likely he'll only do it if the item really is damaged because he'll basically be paying ~$35 to get ~$110 back.

Sure enough, that asshole that I dealt with sold the dehumidifier to another customer. I e-mailed the winning bidder, but unfortunately he had already paid; so he had to go through the same ordeal I went through.

Oh yeah, there is an option in your eBay settings that restricts who is allowed to bid on your items. Go ahead and remove all countries except the US and maybe Canada. Dealing with foreigners will just cause you to get burned again. Sounds like a shitty thing to say, but it's the truth.

[Edited on March 31, 2009 at 10:59 AM. Reason : l]

3/31/2009 10:53:47 AM

for this reason, i never deal with foreign buyers.

did it once, and even though my transaction was nowhere near as bad as yours, it was more painful than it was worth.

3/31/2009 11:00:39 AM

I haven't read all the details in here..

but sellers beware, paypal will fuck you sideways. hard.

a few years ago i was selling a bunch of electronics i had and they put a lock on all the funds and said i had to prove where i was getting them from before i could have access to the money--since i'm not a business and was just selling personal items they basically said tough shit. i fought with them for a while but they basically said they weren't giving me my money. fortunately they have a policy that after 6 months or so they have to release the money so that you can withdrawal it--i still can't use that account and all of my bank accounts are linked to it. because of that i can't open another account bc i have no accounts left to link/verify with. it really fucking sucks.

just read paypalsucks.com it's fucking awful for sellers--very good for buyers though. they can get products for f'in free.

[Edited on March 31, 2009 at 11:06 AM. Reason : asdf]

3/31/2009 11:06:21 AM

Another good piece of advice is do not leave money in your paypal acct. As soon as the payment is available spend/withdraw the money. Somebody tried to dick me like that recently where I sent them a phone and then they filed a claim saying it was never received.

Paypal tried to put a hold on the funds but they were not there anymore. I had also put the tracking information in on PayPal as soon as it shipped, I had proof of delivery before the guy even tried to back charge me.

He then responded that it was a mistake and canceled the claim but only after he was backed in to a corner.

3/31/2009 4:09:48 PM

^ they can and will pull money out of your bank account if they decide you owe it to them. basically they will put a negative balance in your paypal account and then if you lose pull it out or try to collect in some other way.

3/31/2009 6:03:45 PM

It's a bad idea to sell to buyers outside the US and Canada.

3/31/2009 11:03:48 PM

Quote :

" LAY TO YOUR SWINDLE "

4/1/2009 12:32:25 AM