I'm on the hunt for a new job right now and need references. I graduated in '06 with no real ties to any professors/staff and the (current) job I got right out of school is the only job I've ever had that wasn't just a summer temp job.

My current boss and sub-boss would give a good word on my behalf... if it were an internal audit I'm kind of up-n-the-air about asking them to be my references in my current job-searching. They're really the only people (with power) who can honestly speak of my work/attitude/etc. I get along very well with them both and receive good reviews year after year.

What do you think?

more details:
*I'm not going to quit the job until another one is lined up
*I oversee a very unique process for which it takes ~4 months to train.. if I leave, the 2 other guys will have to pull 12-hour shifts continuously



[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 7:08 PM. Reason : +]

1/28/2009 6:59:08 PM

I dunno man, you're in a very tight spot.

If you leave and they have no replacement, it'll suck for them and they might not be happy with you.

How close are you with the managers, friends at all?

You might have to go without, unless you tell them that you are looking for another job and they are fine with that. Most of the time, if you tell a company you are looking elsewhere, they will fire you on the spot.

Do you have any examples of your work? I had performance reviews and awards that I received, which I used to bolster my resume instead of certain recommendations.

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 7:26 PM. Reason : v]

1/28/2009 7:24:27 PM

Are they allowed to give recommendations? Many companies prohibit supervisors/managers from giving out references.

1/28/2009 7:39:26 PM

^I don't know. I've never looked into it

^^I'm not hanging out with them after work or anything but I've been nothing but friendly with the both of them. Never had a dispute and have always communicated any objections in a nice civil manner.

Of the 5 guys who have ever been trained in the system, only myself and my trainer really have met/went beyond the managers' expectations. The both of us just happen to be good with cars (mechanical) and with computers enough to have a bunch of extra work thrown at us that should really be contracted out/ never have been mandated in the first place. Sure, I may be a commodity, but it sure doesn't show on the payroll I really can't imagine the bosses having anything bad to say about me; I wouldn't have considered the reference idea if I thought otherwise.

There's really no examples of my work as its a manufacturing type of setting. 80% Same thing day-in, day-out. I'd have to go to HR for evaluation records, but I'm trying not to go there. My bosses SHOULD be cool enough to keep it on the down low if they agree to it in the first place. My sub-boss has even hinted at looking for new opportunities himself

Quote :

"Most of the time, if you tell a company you are looking elsewhere, they will fire you on the spot"

I want to hear more stories about this

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 7:45 PM. Reason : ]

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 7:46 PM. Reason : ]

1/28/2009 7:45:23 PM

References have pretty much gone away - most corporations tend to tie the hands of people and tell them to have anybody call HR. That way HR can control the information that is provided, and it tends to be only term of employment, reason of and salary at termination. This has pretty much become an unfortunate situation of a litigation culture on steroids.

1/28/2009 7:56:52 PM

Everyone that has left my employer for other pastures kept it under wraps until the day they left. That lends some credence to what Seotaji is saying (I've heard the same thing).

Obviously, it's up to you--you know your bosses. But I would really recommend you didn't. What happens if you don't get the new job? How will work dynamics/relationships be affected? Will your boss remain loyal to you when he knows you're no longer loyal to the company?

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 8:11 PM. Reason : ]

1/28/2009 8:10:26 PM

dp

[Edited on January 28, 2009 at 8:20 PM. Reason : dp]

1/28/2009 8:19:26 PM

^^the job I have now actually did call all my references and grilled them for at least 30 minutes AFTER my phone interview BEFORE my personal interview.

1/28/2009 8:19:58 PM

Quote :

"Most of the time, if you tell a company you are looking elsewhere, they will fire you on the spot. "

A lot of the management books I have read say to do exactly this, because you know they are not being effective or efficient workers at this point so they will just be costing you money.

1/28/2009 8:46:57 PM

i'd say that it depends on the status of your company. if moral is low and its pretty clear that's its a good chance that you're going to be laid off or something similar it may be okay. I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago and my boss would come by and ask how the job search was going.

otherwise i would strongly advise against asking your boss to be a reference. as others have stated, you'll likely be unemployed sooner than you'd hoped.

1/28/2009 9:59:58 PM

Quote :

"My sub-boss has even hinted at looking for new opportunities himself"

This person may be safe to use as a reference, and keep it under wraps with everyone else if possible. Any place you are trying to get on at will understand you not being able to use your current boss as a reference.

My previous employer had policies against managers giving references and HR is only allowed to give dates of employment.

1/28/2009 10:15:59 PM

sounds like career suicide to me

1/28/2009 10:56:40 PM

It all depends on how your relationship is with your boss and your reasons for leaving. If it's a reason that they would understand and it is of no offense to them, then they should be cool about giving you a good referral. If they're assholes and only care about themselves, then no.

1/28/2009 11:42:58 PM

they might give you a good referral, sure...

but they (or anybody that finds out) will most likely fire your ass over something trivial to keep the company from wasting money on somebody that isn't committed.

1/28/2009 11:45:52 PM

Been on both sides of the reference thing.

As far as seeking a new position my advice is that you need to do what is good for you. It sounds like you are underappreciated, underpaid and you have given them a couple of good years of work. If they are not upping the pay/responsibility/title then don't feel bad for moving on to a position that is more suited to your career goals. Also, it is not your problem that training for the position takes 4 months.

But I wouldn't tell them anything or talk about references until you accept an offer from a new company. Too many things could go wrong. Try to keep things open with your new position if they decide to get rid of you on the spot when you tell them you are leaving. Or enjoy the 2 weeks off before you are chained down again

I also just gave references for a bunch of people that resigned after I left my last position. About 1/3 of the new companies never called, 1/3 called and asked basic questions like dates of employment and re-hire eligibility, the last 1/3 called and actually asked some strength/weaknesses questions but those were for managerial positions. Keep in mind you are also in a position to be a reference now. About 6 months after I left I got a call from my old boss who now needed my reference.

-Dave

1/30/2009 10:12:45 PM

what about letters of recommendation ? such as for law school? (they would have many months of notice if it went through)

2/3/2009 12:36:05 PM

bump for TaterSalad

2/24/2012 9:07:34 AM

Quote :

"References have pretty much gone away"

I don't think so. My current job I know for a fact they called at least two of my references. Both of those reference then proceeded to email/text me to say, "heeeeeeeeeeeeeey hope you got that job! " lol.

2/24/2012 9:15:47 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't ask your current boss. Most places will understand that if you're still employed and looking that you don't want to alert your employer to the fact that you're looking.

I've definitely used previous bosses though and co-workers who could keep their mouths shut, i.e. peers who might someday want to use me as a reference.

2/24/2012 10:13:31 AM

So I was filling out an online job application last night when I came to a screen asking for professional references. I am still at my first professional job (graduated in 09) so I don't really have any professional references outside of my company. Obviously I don't want to list my boss or his boss since I'd like to keep my job until I find a new one, so who else could I list? Is it acceptable to list coworkers? The only other thing I know to do is to list "n/a" in the references and explain why I can't give them a professional reference (as stated above). What does TWW say about this?

2/24/2012 10:15:57 AM

"I'm not comfortable giving my current boss as a recommendation but will be happy to contingent on an offer." is a perfectly cromulent approach.

2/24/2012 10:24:54 AM

References have not gone away, I just wouldn't expect one from your current supervisor. Even if they know you're leaving, it is often against policy. (This does not apply in all cases, though.) If they want to know what your current supervisor thinks of you, they'll attempt to find that out on their own.

In many situations, the procedure goes along to the tune of: review application -> interview 1 -> contact references -> interview 2 -> decide to make offer contingent upon contacting current supervisor. Because once you do that, the cat is out of the bag, and if the person is good you don't want to put their current job in jeopardy.

And while I have not personally experienced it, I, too, have heard that often when you state your intention to find another job, or particularly once you give your notice, you are often immediately made to clean out your desk and are escorted out by security. Not so much due to the fact that you've already mentally "checked out" but also due to the risk of corporate espionage/theft of intellectual property/vandalism.

2/24/2012 10:57:03 AM

If you want your current supervisor to be a reference then either 1) get an offer contingent on the recommendation or 2) let your current company know that you're leaving.

If your current company is worth a damn, they'll understand and be helpful. However, if you are switching to their competitor, then don't expect much.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 11:07 AM. Reason : r]

2/24/2012 11:06:46 AM

update your LinkedIn profile. ask them for an endorsement on LinkedIn and that you like to keep your LinkedIn profile up to date. profit.

2/24/2012 11:48:07 AM

I found a job listing at my current place of employment on the HR website. My boss saw it and totally blessed me going for it because it would be about a 50% pay raise, and I am totally qualified. Needless to say I have put in for it.

2/24/2012 12:46:24 PM

But did you use your current boss as a reference?

2/24/2012 1:15:03 PM

^Not yet!

2/24/2012 1:16:51 PM

Quote :

"update your LinkedIn profile. ask them for an endorsement on LinkedIn and that you like to keep your LinkedIn profile up to date. profit."

This can backfire bigtime. I know for a fact that at several of the large tech companies, managers and directors are active and aware when their top talent starts popping up with activity on LinkedIn (getting recommendations after years of inactvitity, updated profiles, etc etc).

The "recommendation on offer contingency" is absolutely the appropriate and proper way to handle getting a recommendation from a current supervisor. I've done this in the past multiple times, in different ways. The easiest BY FAR is just to put "References available upon request". The few times I've had an HR person request them pre-interview was via phone or email conversation, where I could explain the situation and it was never an issue after that.

2/24/2012 1:36:16 PM

^ NICE!

2/24/2012 2:55:38 PM

Quote :

"a perfectly cromulent approach"

from the context, it is clear what you mean.

2/24/2012 3:38:41 PM

Quote :

""Most of the time, if you tell a company you are looking elsewhere, they will fire you on the spot""

bs

2/24/2012 4:54:32 PM

It's not complete BS, but it's not unheard of either. I wouldn't go so far as to say "most of the time" but I got let go from a job once because I moved ~70 miles away and let a co-worker know that I was looking for work closer to my new house.

But at that job anyone could have literally done millions of dollars of damage in seconds and with a little prep work, practically everyone there could have bankrupted the company/ruined it's rep fairly easy. So needless to say, keeping happy employees was a concern for them.

2/24/2012 6:10:30 PM

Quote :

"""Most of the time, if you tell a company you are looking elsewhere, they will fire you on the spot"""

No. Every situation is different. Will depend on your relationship with management, why you are looking, etc. Maybe if you are easily replaceable...

2/24/2012 9:24:28 PM

depends on your relationship with the boss. I had a boss that was like "fuck yeah, get the hell out while you can and I will hook you up with a bomb ass reference", and I had a boss that would have fired my ass if I told him I was looking for another job.

[Edited on February 24, 2012 at 9:38 PM. Reason : a]

2/24/2012 9:38:19 PM

in my experience, if the current boss and sub-boss would give you a good word in an internal audit, they appreciate what you do as an employee, and should be able to keep it professional if someone else asks...i've gotten plenty of calls for references from former employers when ex-employees are seeking jobs...sometimes its just confirmation of employment dates and job title, but if someone was a good employee, regardless of why they left, i'll put in the good word...its kinda like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv44GeBMovk feel free to turn off at the 30 second mark if you hate good hiphop

2/24/2012 9:42:29 PM

^ Well sure that makes sense after the fact. But what about someone currently working at the company and you didn't know they were looking to leave?

2/24/2012 9:48:33 PM

depends on the boss, but when someone has been in a business environment for longer than most of us, i'm hoping they realize its just business and can keep it professional

seems like most people who would get butthurt about this type situation (as far as vengeful employers) aren't fit to run companies that can be successful for the long haul

you work for a company, you do what they ask and do it well, you move on to something else, they understand

if you were an asshole and got fired after 2 weeks and are looking for a recommendation, thats completely different of course

2/24/2012 10:10:56 PM