Didn't want to throw this in the A-Rod thread, because I think it needs it's own separate discussion.

What do you do with the guys that admitted (or accused and have a lot of evidence) to taking steroids?? Bonds, McGuire, A-Rod, etc.??

Can you keep the All-Time leading HR leader out? Supposedly one of the best (at least stats-wise) players ever?

Do you just ignore the 1990s and early 2000s? Guy on Mike and Mike in the morning said that Cooperstown is a museum...not the Vatican.

I'm a little torn.

2/10/2009 9:54:58 AM

they should not be let in

2/10/2009 9:55:46 AM

i think whatever years they juiced should be thrown out. in a-rod's case, he'd still probably get in. i realize, however, that they look at image also.

2/10/2009 9:57:22 AM

everyone in baseball is taking steroids. seriously everyone.

you just have to get over it and up your drug testing policy, or just live w/ it

2/10/2009 10:00:21 AM

It will never happen but they should just start a "Steroid Era" section of the Hall of Fame that basically owns up to all the shit that went down and controversy over players. Pretending like it never happened isn't going to make it go away.

2/10/2009 10:00:38 AM

I would let them in. But to be honest, I'm one of the few who could not care less if players use steroids. In my opinion, if arguably the greatest hitter of our generation (Bonds) and arguably the greatest pitcher of our generation (Clemmons) are both using steroids it is back to an even playing field. To be fair though I love 500 ft homeruns and 100 mph fastballs.

2/10/2009 10:00:54 AM

I think what differs wrt A-Rod and the other guys is that A-Rod was actually candid and admitted to using PEDs, unlike the other guys who are liars and come off as major slime balls. A-Rod is no saint, but he isn't lieing to the fans like the others and trying to put the blame on other people. The fans aren't stupid. He was part of a corrupt era in baseball. That's what you get when the WWE has a stricter drug policy than your league. I think A-Rod can make it out of this whole thing alive and make it into Cooperstown. I agree with Stingray that the voting is all about image. The voters will let it slide if you own up to it, say that it was a stupid thing to do, and cheated the sport and the fans. This could be just the thing to make him motivated enough to go out and finally get his team a ring.

2/10/2009 10:09:05 AM

do believe he stopped after 03-04?

i believe him

2/10/2009 10:29:56 AM

A player shouldn't be compared to just past players, he needs to be compared to players of his generation. I'm of the belief that most baseball players have used steroids. I find it hard to believe with how slack the policy used to be most guys wouldnt pass up the opportunity to enhance themselves when everyone else was doing it. That doesn't make it right, but thats how it is. This era will be known as the steroid era, and while I don't think its right to automatically assume everyone used steroids, I also don't think its right to exclude someone who did better solely due to steroids. Arod is obviously an amazing baseball talent. I hate the guy, but the list apparently has 104 names. How come all 104 of those guys aren't huge name talents right now? Steroids don't make your game, they just enhance it.

2/10/2009 10:37:14 AM

I think ARod and a lot of the others should be in so long as they are candid. I know it's a pretty hazy decision to let them in and not Bonds, but this is karma. You want to be an asshole and lie to everyone? This is what you get.

Oh, and before ANY of them get it, Pete Rose needs to be in. End of story.

2/10/2009 11:48:37 AM

before ANY of them get it, Pete Rose needs to be in. End of story.

2/10/2009 11:50:55 AM

fuck Pete Rose

2/10/2009 11:53:05 AM

Quote :

"You want to be an asshole and lie to everyone? This is what you get"

2/10/2009 11:54:43 AM

Quote :

"arguably the greatest pitcher of our generation (Clemmons)"

Clemens. And you think Lidge is better than ARod?

Quote :

"How come all 104 of those guys aren't huge name talents right now? Steroids don't make your game, they just enhance it."

And they are also ILLEGAL no matter what. Plus we don't know who else is on that list. Its not fair to the ones that are doing it the right way like Griffey and Maddux.

2/10/2009 11:56:21 AM

Pete Rose should never, ever, be in the HOF.

2/10/2009 11:57:29 AM

you think Pete Rose did more to impact his ability than players taking steroids?

2/10/2009 11:59:49 AM

Rose probably would be in if hadn't lied about what he did for 20 years.

A-Rod came clean (no pun intended), he'll be in.

Quote :

"you think Pete Rose did more to impact his ability than players taking steroids?"

Rose didn't do anything to impact his ability. He might have tanked games he was managing, which is probably a more egregious act than taking roids. Plus he lied like a motherfucker.

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 12:01 PM. Reason : ]

2/10/2009 11:59:57 AM

To me, Cooperstown is about honoring the best players that played the game...in that respect, Pete Rose deserves it more than someone on Steroids

2/10/2009 12:02:00 PM

It's also about keeping out the people that disgraced the game.

I agree, though, Rose should be in on his merits as a player, but still banned from anything else MLB-related for his actions as a manager.

2/10/2009 12:04:16 PM

I would agree to that ^

2/10/2009 12:06:45 PM

A-Rod only told the truth when he knew he was busted. He did lie to the fans in Dec 07:

Quote :

""For the record, have you ever used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing substance?" Couric asked. "No," Rodriguez replied. Asked if he had ever been tempted to use any of those things, Rodriguez told Couric, "No." "You never felt like, 'This guy's doing it, maybe I should look into this, too? He's getting better numbers, playing better ball,'" Couric asked. "I've never felt overmatched on the baseball field. I've always been a very strong, dominant position. And I felt that if I did my work as I've done since I was, you know, a rookie back in Seattle, I didn't have a problem competing at any level. So, no," he replied. "

I was hoping that he was clean but now I don't trust anything he says. Same with Clemens and Bonds.

2/10/2009 1:34:43 PM

Have they determined what PEDs he was using? He referenced some things that used to be found in GNC stores.

2/10/2009 1:38:10 PM

not to mention that the last statement there reeked of arrogance.....

I have never felt overmatched.....


I can't believe some of you guys are letting him off the hook for "coming clean"

He never came clean. He came clean because he was exposed. It's not like he called a press conference and was like BTW guys i roided from 01-03.

If those names were never leaked, he would still be the golden boy in all of your eyes.....

2/10/2009 1:41:47 PM

Quote :

"Rose didn't do anything to impact his ability. He might have tanked games he was managing, which is probably a more egregious act than taking roids. Plus he lied like a motherfucker."

Explain this to me, taking roids allows you to play better right? So you might have won games you would have not won before (especially as a pitcher). Thus you are inadvertently throwing games, How is that different? and all of the roid users lied like a motherfucker as well...

[Edited on February 10, 2009 at 1:56 PM. Reason : .]

2/10/2009 1:55:58 PM

Quote :

"Explain this to me, taking roids allows you to play better right?"

Maybe, maybe not

Rose was the manager. He was in charge of the lineup, the rotation, the substitutions. No player has as much control over the outcome of a game as the manger does.

Look at this list and tell me how many of these guys directly affected the outcome of 786 games (the number of games Rose managed)

http://www.baseball-reference.com/friv/mitchell-report-players.shtml

Quote :

"and all of the roid users lied like a motherfucker as well..."

That's my point. A bunch of those guys lied when faced with indisputable evidence, just like Rose did. A-Rod at least told the truth when the shit really hit the fan. It doesn't erase what he did, but it puts him a notch above guys like Giambi, Clemens, and Pettitte.

2/10/2009 2:16:09 PM

dunno ernie, a lot of records got beat from the steroid era, so i think there was an impact. they are just as bad as rose to me


and pete did admit to it in his last book

2/10/2009 3:09:31 PM

it's sad, but it's just another era of baseball like the dead ball era

are we going to kick all the pitchers out of cooperstown who were allowed to use spitballs?

2/10/2009 3:17:20 PM

I blame Fowler for this.

2/10/2009 3:22:40 PM

Quote :

"dunno ernie, a lot of records got beat from the steroid era, so i think there was an impact"

What?

Quote :

"and pete did admit to it in his last boo"

After lying about it for twenty years

2/10/2009 4:37:28 PM

rose will get in the year after he dies

2/10/2009 4:45:24 PM

If you are going to keep Rose out of the HOF, then you need to go back and remove a SHITLOAD of the early players (Cobb, Ruth, etc.) as the majority of those guys were known to be in cahoots with gamblers. The pay in baseball was so low back then that many of the star players supplemented their income by working with gamblers.

Not to mention that Ty Cobb might be the single most despicable athlete of all time.

2/10/2009 4:49:38 PM

Quote :

"I can't believe some of you guys are letting him off the hook for "coming clean""

Agreed. Some people are making him out to be a martyr. Admitting to it is just saving his own skin from getting in an even worse situation, not to clear his conscience.

2/10/2009 4:55:03 PM

Let them in! Asterisks all around!

Or erase all stats from 1990-2005.

Anything in-between solves nothing.

2/10/2009 5:48:19 PM

Pete Rose should definitely be in.

You can't just erase numbers from steroid years, because they would have produced something. A-Rod might not have had 54 HRs or whatever, but he probably would have had 40+ in that ballpark and lineup.

Mark McGwire should not be in the HOF anyways. He wasn't a good hitter. He hit HRs, that's all, and that's not good enough. Bonds and A-Rod should be in, and Clemens, and...pretty much anybody that was still dominating even if they might have been cheating, because pretty much everybody they were facing was also cheating. You can't look at numbers so much, but just how much they dominated during their years.

It really sucks for Curt Schilling, assuming he's telling the truth and never did anything. He was dominant and probably could have had better numbers than the Rocket if he did it too.

2/10/2009 6:33:48 PM

Quote :

"Pete Rose should never, ever, be in the HOF."

This quote is coming from someone who made a thread stating he would pick Brad Lidge over A-Rod (before the steroid controversy).

Disregard anything hershculez says about baseball.

2/10/2009 6:39:03 PM

I am saying that how many records got beat from 1995-2004? A lot, It seemed like every year something got beat...

And ya Rose lied for 20 years, but Bonds is still lying, and many others

It is all the same to me

2/11/2009 8:17:26 AM

Quote :

"If you are going to keep Rose out of the HOF"

whatever

in my opinion, Pete Rose kept himself out by accepting the ban just because he didn't man up and admit that shit when he had the chance. He's a liar and only admitted it when it was profitable to him through a piece of shit book, like we're supposed to feel sorry for him or something

put him in when he dies, fine... but don't give him the satisfaction of seeing it for himself

2/11/2009 8:31:09 AM