before
Caster Left 3.9
Caster Right 3.4
Difference .5
Result: car pulled strongly to the right

after
Caster Left 3.7 degrees
Caster Right 4.1 degrees
Difference .4
Result: car pulls noticably to the left

2/13/2009 12:29:55 PM

there is a lot more to alignment than caster

what else is going on, and what are the specs?

2/13/2009 12:31:13 PM

If they didn't fix it, they didn't fix it. Go back and get that stuff straightened out.

2/13/2009 12:41:09 PM

before
front caster l/r 3.9 3.4
front camber l/r -0.1 0.0
front toe l/r/total 0 1/16" 1/16"

rear camber -0.9 -1.0
toe 3/32" 1/32" 1/8"
thrust angle 0.1

SAI l/r 11.3 11.3
included angle l/r 11.3 12.0


after (specs in paranthesis where given)
front caster (3.7-5.2) l/r 3.7 4.1
front camber (-0.3-1.1) l/r -0.1 0.0
front toe (1/8 1/8 1/4) l/r/total 0 1/16" 1/16"

rear camber (-1.2 - -0.2) -0.9 -1.0
toe (1/8" 1/8" 1/4") 3/32" 1/32" 1/8"
thrust angle 0.1

SAI (11.4-11.4) l/r 11.4 11.9
included angle l/r 11.3 11.9

setback front/rear 0.6 0.4
track width diff 0.0
wheel base diff 0.2

After taking all the time to type that up I think I agree with Senez and am going to go back.

I'm going give them some tighter specs off of the Miata forums since their computer apparently says they can have it immediately rip off the road without two hands on the wheel while being within specs

If anyone with alignment experience sees something indicative of further issues in the before/after feel free to comment. The right side slid into a curb under lockup braking at maybe 10mph a few months ago and that's what knocked it out of alignment. According to the alignment shop there was play in the lower balljoint on the left side, possibly related to the curbing or age, but in either case I replaced that balljoint. I took it back and they seemed to be satisfied with the balljoint, but the alignment they did still sucks ass and the steering is still off by way more than there was ever noticable free play due to the balljoint.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:03 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2009 12:50:10 PM

miata? Get a shitload more front camber. I couldn't get more than about -.3 until I dropped the caster down from in the 5 to the 2s. Now I have -1 in the front. I'm waiting to get back in the shop right now for another alignment now that I have my koni + threaded perches + 550/350 springs installed. Now I bet I have about -2.5 all around.

2/13/2009 1:01:01 PM

yeah now that I've given them a chance to get it right (not even "performance" right, but "not pulling off the highway" right) without me getting up in their business I think I'm going to be a bit more demanding.

after some reading to refresh my memory I think I'm going to ask for -1 FL/FR camber at ~5 FL/FR caster

Incidentally I was having tire wear issues on both FR / FL before the alignment. I assume that was more due to the caster difference, or perhaps the balljoint?

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 1:28 PM. Reason : lulz]

2/13/2009 1:09:00 PM

the caster angle you wil feel is how fast the wheel returns or doesnt to center after a turn, the camber angle is the problem , you need more negative camber, you also need to check everything to make sure it is not worn out, loose balljoints or tie rod ends will cause false numbers, do you have the same condition tires on both sides?

i would let them drive it and talk the the service manager, you do not have to pay for another alignment, i would give them another chance, then take it to gowers on south sauders s. to get it done right

sears fucked up my sisters car 3 times, then i took it to my old shop and did it myself, made a bill for twice as much, and told sears they could pay it or go to court, they paid

some people fail to believe that a laser alignment system is not idiot proof, there are a lot of ways to fuck it up, gowers does damn good wok and i used to take everything to them, i had a worn balljoint and tie rod end last time i took it there, they couldn't get in touch with me, so they aligned it the best they could, and i replaced the parts the next week, took it back , and they did it again for free

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 4:58 PM. Reason : where did you take it?]

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 4:59 PM. Reason : gowers doesnt accept anything in a tolerace range, its either perfect in the middle, or its not]

2/13/2009 4:58:03 PM

you paid them to fix it. make them fix it.

2/13/2009 5:13:41 PM

^^ I took it to some tire shop out here in bumfuck, I'm not up in Raleigh anymore sadly

I thought about it some more and the tires are both worn differently and unevenly. I apparently have a 3 month and 5K mile "warranty" on this alignment so I'm going to go ahead and replace both front tires first and see if the issue persists before jumping down their throats about it. I am pretty sure the suspension up front is good as I just replaced a balljoint yesterday that had some play in it and other than that everything feels pretty tight up front.

[Edited on February 13, 2009 at 9:43 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2009 9:42:33 PM

check to make sure the bottom edge of the fender to the center of the hub is the same on both sides, could also be a sagging spring

2/13/2009 9:47:59 PM

I forgot to ask this, did they do the alignment with YOU in the car? The Miata, having soft springs and being fairly small, has a big enough change in static alignment with weight in the drivers seat that if you set everything even and then add 170lbs on the left side then your camber and toe will be off enough to cause a pull.

Been there, done that.

2/14/2009 8:37:55 AM

funny thing is, the alignment procedure on that car calls for 3/4 tank of of gas and the spare tire properly stowed

2/14/2009 8:48:41 AM

well I don't have the spare tire and fuel load isn't a big concern since the tank is center mounted and won't affect side to side camber differences much at all. Though the f/r weight split does cause a handling difference between full and empty.

2/14/2009 10:11:13 AM

that caster angle is more liley the issue with his pulling than the camber. he basically has one tire standing more straight up under the car than the other and the car will have the tendancy to drift towards the side with less caster. overall they did about a shit alignment job but it looks more like they were trying to adress your pulling issue and overdid it instead of lining the car up to run straight down the road. thats what you get when you get an alignment done by bubba who doesnt actually understand how all those angles work in conjunction with the road, suspension, etc.

2/14/2009 1:18:06 PM

you don't have amanda riding in the left side do you? those sparks draggin didn't look healthy last time, did she ever find out about the wine bag of piss?

2/14/2009 1:30:40 PM

Install some rock-hard lowering springs. It'll make alignment easier. You'll need some stiffer adjustable shocks to go with them.

Also, remove your spare, and add a big turbo. It won't make alignment easier--it's just a good thing to do to a Miata.

2/14/2009 1:53:07 PM

just turn that pos into a track car

2/14/2009 1:57:58 PM

Quote :

"Install some rock-hard lowering springs. It'll make alignment easier. You'll need some stiffer adjustable shocks to go with them."

true

Quote :

"Also, remove your spare"

true

Quote :

"add a big turbo. It won't make alignment easier--it's just a good thing to do to a Miata. "

come the fall, I'll be doing that. Definitely a good idea.

Quote :

"just turn that pos into a track car"

best advice there is

2/14/2009 4:02:42 PM