I'm about at the end of the life for my shocks and am thinking about upgrading the suspension instead of just going with oem replacements. Anyone have any good recommendations? (i'm reading through the bmw forums now, but its hard sifting through all of the recommendations there)

I have a 328i with stock wheels. I don't want anything extreme, just maybe a little firmer. The car just gets driven on the street, although I am planning on hitting up a couple HPDEs with it.

3/8/2009 7:09:55 PM

koni sports are the only way to go.

3/8/2009 8:03:39 PM

I had H&R Sport springs with Bilstein sport shocks and struts on my old '96 328is. They were the popular choice back when I did the upgrade. They dropped the car a nice amount and weren't too harsh. I really liked that setup. Keep an eye on the For Sale section of each BMW forum and you might be able to find something used with low miles.

3/8/2009 8:48:02 PM

http://www.ddmtuning.com/products/DDM_Tuning_Brand_Coilover_Suspension-37-62.html

or

http://www.ddmtuning.com/products/DDM_Tuning_Bilstein_Suspension_Package-38-62.html

3/8/2009 9:24:59 PM

If you like the look of stock but want a firmer ride you can go with Bilstein HD shocks and H&R OE Sport springs. I have them on my 91 E30 but I like that its not oilpan-busting slammed and does not ride harshly. I can feel everything in the road with the wheel, but not my back.

Change rear shock mounts, front control arm bushings, and strut bearings if you can. I went with OEM solid rubber considering most of it lasted 250k miles the first time. You might want to consider diff bushings too.

3/8/2009 10:31:04 PM

i guess i wouldn't mind dropping it, i just don't want to start chewing up the inside of my tires any more than i have to

^i'll double check, but i'm pretty sure i remember seeing the shock mounts getting replaced in the records for the car somewhere.

i'm at 140k

3/8/2009 10:54:32 PM

Pelicanparts.com has pretty good pricing on those H&R sport springs and Bilsteins. They may offer it as a package too. I'm pretty sure the guys at Shade Tree Garage can order it if you want to pay someone to install it.

3/9/2009 12:09:00 AM

First do bushings, i guarantee yours are shot if theyre original. I'd go with OEM RTABs with the delrim shims. Works well. That joint pivots on more than a single axis so you don't want stiff poly or delrin.

Bimmerworld delrin/nylon front LCABs are great.

Make sure your ball joints are solid.

After all that is done, i'd start with Turner MS sway bars and shocks. Konis ride nicer, but really are crap. I've had a 50% failure rate in my history (and friend's) with Konis. Bilsteins are far superior shocks, but can be a bit stiff on some cars and the E36 Bilstein Sports do seem pretty stiff. The TMS swaybar have the biggest front bar and you'll want it to control roll to minimize the shitty front camber gain (or lack thereof). I ran the front bar medium-firm and the rear medium-soft.

3/9/2009 8:43:31 AM

bilsteins for shocks.

OE RTABs are nice and comfy, but plan on changing them every 60-80k. i have poly ones, they are stiff, but at least you only deal with PITA rtab DIY only once.

3/9/2009 11:18:13 AM

Quote :

"Bilstein HD shocks and H&R OE Sport springs"

i like this combo.

3/9/2009 12:43:55 PM

^^uh, OEMs will last 3-4x longer than poly. poly doesnt last for shit. They are a heck of a lot easier to install, though.

3/9/2009 10:06:05 PM

that's wrong info? maybe some crappy brand poly bushings.

i have mine for 40k so far and they are rock solid. oem fall apart by 50ish. 3-4x longer would mean polys are done by 15k.

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 10:23 PM. Reason : d]

3/9/2009 10:22:42 PM

no

3/9/2009 10:53:48 PM

I know mine is an E30, but I put about 30k on the H&R OE springs and there is literally no camber wear. The drop from stock is about 3/4", but it actually raised it from the Eibach Pro Kit springs I bought the car with. Now those tires were shot after 10k.

If I understand right, there is not a lot of difference between the HD and Sport Bilsteins other than the depth the are spec'd to operate at.

3/10/2009 2:38:29 PM

^what was the camber after the drop in ride height? probably didnt gain a whole lot, about -1ish which is fine for daily use. toe wears out tires much more than camber, you can run -2-3 with zero front toe and they'll wear fine.

for most application, yeh, Bilstein Sports are valved similarly to HDs, but use shorter bodies and strokes for lower (less travel) apps. On the E30 I had H&R Race and Bilstein Sports. I found it to ride a lot nicer than the E36 M3 with H&R Sports and Bilstein Sports. The E36, rode really nice though on the GC (koni based) coilovers with springs much stiffer (550/450#) than the H&Rs.

A stock E36 with fresh bushings (even OEM) and new shocks will ride and handle awesome. After that i'd do sway bars, and then springs last. i'm talking about a daily driver car.

3/10/2009 4:55:11 PM

Quote :

"toe wears out tires much more than camber, you can run -2-3 with zero front toe and they'll wear fine."

dude, you are feeding him wrong information. i run zero toe and -2.2 camber front and front tires are done in 10k, thats without auto events, just street. anything past 1.75 will eat up insides fast.

and OE rtab will definitely not last longer than polyflex RTABs. that's completely not true. OE rtabs are nicer for the street, but durability wise, they WILL NOT last longer. unless you have bad experience with some shitty aftermarket rtab vendor?

[Edited on March 10, 2009 at 9:21 PM. Reason : g]

3/10/2009 9:18:38 PM

poly is crap. it gets hard and cracks over time. are you telling me you've personally had poly in a car for 80k miles? i doubt it. i've seen cracked poly thats been on a car about a year. on top of that it squeaks all the damn time and often needs to be lubed. its not worth the trouble, especially in the RTAB location where you can't get to it to lube it. That joint also needs to articulate more than poly might allow. Def no delrin, i've seen the chassis crack where the RTABs mount with that.

Are you sure you toe is zero? Do you rotate your tires? I only got about 10k out of tires on the M3 with -3deg, but they wore evenly. toe kills tires, camber doesnt. i mean think about it, toe is scraping the tire sideways, camber is just putting a little more weight on the edge. this extra weight on the edge will kill toe'ed tires faster, though.

3/11/2009 1:32:18 AM

I had poly for close to 40k now or 3 years with absolutely no problems and no squeaking, which includes about 10 autocross events and 1 track event. Never had to re-lube them after living in hot and humid NC and then in cold and dry Connecticut. I know people with over 100k on same poly bushings. They squeak if they are not installed and lubed properly. Forums are full of noobs who post how bushings squeak and this gives people idea that product is not good, when in fact they just haven’t applied enough lubrication.
Poly bushings are easy to lube, actually easier then OE rtabs.

Toe does kill tires and that is exactly why I always set mine to zero (at least fronts). My thoughts were the same that littlebit of neg camber will be fine, but it ate relatively hard tires in 10k…and fronts don’t wear that fast on M3. Rears are different story. It is deceptive because you are actually putting a lot of weight on the inside because contact patch surface area is reduced significantly with increased neg camber (at least when going straight…)

3/11/2009 10:28:25 AM

so who should i believe on this one?

3/11/2009 2:18:52 PM

I have had poly rtabs for about 20,000 miles now, they NEVER squeak and really tightened up the rear end. The OE rtabs and bushings are known to fall apart after around 50,000 miles. As long as the Poly bushings are installed properly they are a lot better then OE bushings. Also I have no idea what my toe and camber are set on my car, but i have the Bilstein shocks with Dinan Springs sway bars etc. My back tires are just barely tucked into my fenders, and they wear on the inside of the back tires. They are lasting around 10,000 miles without being rotated. There are tons of information on suspension setups as well as any other item you could ever think of at http://www.bimmerforums.com. So if you don't believe us, or want more opinions (some from venders and racers) then try reading those forums. Goodluck and let us know what you decide to go with, and how you like them.

3/11/2009 2:49:12 PM

Ok, well i had poly on my E30 race car's trailing arm bushings and it was squeaky as shit. It's been fine for swaybar bushings. Depends on tolerances, the poly, and where it is. I would not use poly for RTABs, its not flexible enough for that joint. yes, it will probably work, but it is not optimal. In my option you have two proper choices, a big spherical bearing (not suitable for a daily driver due to nvh and required maintenance) or OEM rubber with delrin shims.

Delrin is far superior to poly in applications where the movement is on a single axis like the control arm bushings. Its stiffer, self lubricating, and lasts much longer.

Search bimmerforums, "toe wears tires, not camber" will be repeated four times a day in the Track section. This agrees with my experience in 3 cars with 2-3deg of camber. You will wear inside rears, especially as you lower the rear and gain rear negative camber. this is due to the necessary rear toe in and because the rears are drive wheels and so the driving forces will be concentrated on the insides due to having the negative camber.

I know a thing or two about suspensions, i designed and implemented this:


(mcpherson strut to SLA conversion)

3/12/2009 1:20:06 AM

Quote :

"is. I would not use poly for RTABs, its not flexible enough for that joint. yes, it will probably work, but it is not optimal. In my option you have two proper choices, a big spherical bearing (not suitable for a daily driver due to nvh and required maintenance) or OEM rubber with delrin shims."

I agree that for street poly is far from optimal. In fact, it is very stiff, but definitely planted ride. My decision was based on the fact that I do not want to mess with changing RTABs again in 50k. Some people have other priorities. Polyflex bushings will last longer than anything out there if they are installed and lubed properly.

Quote :

"Delrin is far superior to poly in applications where the movement is on a single axis like the control arm bushings. Its stiffer, self lubricating, and lasts much longer."

I am not sure about this. The consensus on bfc track subforum is that poly is superior in every respect, and most of those people are seasoned HPDE racers and/or instructors.

Quote :

"Search bimmerforums, "toe wears tires, not camber" will be repeated four times a day in the Track section. [quote] Camber does it too. Zero toe and 2 degrees=10k on fronts. Toe will definitely make it worse, probably 5-6k. [quote]I know a thing or two about suspensions, i designed and implemented this"

Nobody said you don't. I know you have dedicated track car and probably have good experience what works well on E30 that you race. This thread is not about whose automotive e-penis is longer, but getting this guy correct information so he can make a decision.

cheers

3/12/2009 1:48:34 AM

the decisions i will make will be based on this car being on the street, as it will only see the track once a year or so

3/12/2009 6:13:44 PM

all the more reason for OEM RTABs. but i said what i gotta say, search bimmerforums (track section).

3/12/2009 8:36:59 PM

bttt per request

7/26/2009 7:52:35 PM

since i rarely drive this car i think i'm just going to go with the bilstein hd's

i've found plenty of walk throughs for the rear suspension, but i can't find anything about the front. anyone know of a walkthrough for the front, i'm trying to decide if this is something i can handle myself.

7/26/2009 8:07:36 PM

bimmerforums should have a million write ups.

front is pretty straightforward. the only thing to know is that if you use OEM control arm bushings, you need to get the car back on the ground and at ride height before the CAB lube dries. the CABs are real tight and will fuse to the control arm so it needs to be in the right spot when it does that so the bushing is preloaded properly.

7/26/2009 9:42:06 PM

jb weld it

8/4/2009 11:36:05 AM