what if i don't want to use the apple headphones with it? how am i supposed to control shit?

i see this addressed nowhere on the website in the 10 seconds i thought about it and looked.

unless im missing something, design FAIL

3/11/2009 5:52:26 PM

they are working with 3rd parties to fix that problem - or you spend $50 more and get the nano which has many more features - more storage - doesn't have this ridiculous headphone problem

3/11/2009 5:57:10 PM

yeah.... just wait for 3rd party headphones to add the controls, i guess. But can't use your existing headphone.

and forget about hooking it up to a car. No way you'll get controls on a the wire for a car adaptor

Quote :

"With both the new buttonless trackpads and the new iPod Shuffle, it seems that Apple’s going on an all-out war to eliminate as many buttons as possible from their products. There’s a lot of value in simplifying controls, to a point. But nobody was complaining that either the laptop trackpads or the Shuffles had too many buttons before. In both cases, the devices are now worse off than they were before, but they look a bit cooler. It’s easy to see signs of a perpetual internal battle at Apple between usability and appearance. Usually, they find a good balance and achieve high quality on both fronts. But sometimes the appearance-driving forces choke usability enough to leak toxic usability flaws into a shipping product. And I think, like 10.5.0’s translucent menu bar and slanty Dock, and Safari 4 Beta’s tab bar, and heavy shiny glass screens on lightweight laptops, and the Mighty Mouse, that this new Shuffle was a victim of the Apple style police defeating any semblance of common-sense usability."

http://www.marco.org/85610270


oh yeah, and the 2nd gen Shuffle is still at the online Apple Store. Wonder if they'll keep that in production, or just wait until the inventory runs out

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 5:59 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2009 5:58:21 PM

Quote :

"or you spend $50 more and get the nano which has many more features - more storage - doesn't have this ridiculous headphone problem"

i have a real ipod for that

the whole purpose of the shuffle for a lot of folks is something flash based, small and no screen to scratch up while running/physical activity etc


what a FAIL

im going to go buy 2 refurbished 2nd Gen ones right now for half price because these things last about a year before sweat and the outdoors get to them. plus i have a specific set of sennheisers sport headphones that ive bought for the last 3 pair because i love them so much...

time to find a new mp3 player when this one goes unless they address it.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 7:10 PM. Reason : fuck they're gone. they had them for $23 a while back...gotta take extra good care of this one now]

3/11/2009 7:06:03 PM

yeah it's a fail because you have to use apple headphones with it

what were they thinking

oh wait, they do this shit all the time

3/11/2009 7:44:50 PM

Quote :

"oh wait, they do this shit all the time "

And then drive off with their truckloads of cash.

3/11/2009 7:53:16 PM

Quote :

"im going to go buy 2 refurbished 2nd Gen ones right now for half price because these things last about a year before sweat and the outdoors get to them. plus i have a specific set of sennheisers sport headphones that ive bought for the last 3 pair because i love them so much... "

Only last about a year? And you're talking about buying more? What the hell?! You should look at investing in a different mp3 player. I've had the same Creative Lab player for something like 7 years now. I've dropped it hundreds of times, stepped on it, had it rained on while I was running, and last semester I wash and dried the bitch with a load of clothes. And its still going.

3/11/2009 8:02:38 PM

I've had mine (3-5x weekly use) since the 2nd generation came out, and it's still kicking after using it while running, lifting, mtn. biking, heavy petting, etc.

^ what other manufacturer makes an mp3 player a small as the shuffle, and requires no extra accessories to attach it to you while doing something active that doesn't get in your way? (I hate hate hate hate hate armbands)

overall, I agree with the OP

3/11/2009 9:02:40 PM

Quote :

"what if i don't want to use the apple headphones with it? how am i supposed to control shit? i see this addressed nowhere on the website in the 10 seconds i thought about it and looked. unless im missing something, design FAIL"

What's fail is you have zero concept of the real market. iPod headphones are a styling icon. 90% of the market doesn't care at all about using different headphones/earbuds.

This might shock you, but the enthusiast/first adopter/audiophile market is tiny as hell.

3/11/2009 9:06:04 PM

having a "concept of the real market" is completely irrelevant to the OP.

Ultimately the new changes don't meet HIS needs, so HE has every right to be dissatisfied with it.

go ahead and have the last word, though.

3/11/2009 9:12:07 PM

that's fine.

He said it's a design FAIL. It's not. It's a personal fail for him.

3/11/2009 9:13:26 PM

yeah - it's amazing the clamor people raise about these topics, among others -
- iPhone - no removable battery, no expandable storage
- MacBook Pro 17" - no removable battery
- iMac, Mac Mini - hard to upgrade b/c case is inaccessible
- new Mac Mini - CPU soldered to the board

I would love to see the percentages of customers who actually buy additional batteries, would like to upgrade their CPU, would like to add additional graphics cards to their iMacs, etc.

I know i know i know that everybody here will be "well, I carry 2 extra batteries for my blackberry and upgrade my desktop weekly", but you also hang out in a forum called "Tech Talk". Your anecdotal evidence means nothing as far as how Apple, or any other company, should design their products for the maximum profit.


edit:
http://www.macworld.com/article/139345/2009/03/shuffle_reaction.html

Quote :

"But I’m not the target buyer for this device. If you walk along any city street, ride a subway or bus, or wander through the local gym, you’ll see that nearly everyone uses the stock Apple earbuds. It’s not that their ears are any more ideal for these things than mine, it’s just that most people don’t care or know any better. This is what I got, this is what I’ll use. "

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 10:17 PM. Reason : .]

3/11/2009 10:00:55 PM

I don't understand what the problem is here. The shuffle was a piece of shit before they removed the buttons.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 10:19 PM. Reason : -]

3/11/2009 10:19:29 PM

mhum.... clearly the market agrees with you, what with it being the most popular model of the most popular MP3 player ever

3/11/2009 10:38:42 PM

Quote :

"buy additional batteries, would like to upgrade their CPU, would like to add additional graphics cards to their iMacs"

i've never done any of those things. my geek stock just plummeted

3/11/2009 10:45:28 PM

^me either. I did upgrade the ram in my Mini though

3/11/2009 11:12:22 PM

Quote :

"mhum.... clearly the market agrees with you, what with it being the most popular model of the most popular MP3 player ever"

I searched the internets, I couldn't find anything to prove or disprove your claim. Please show your evidence that it is the most popular.

3/11/2009 11:49:00 PM

Quote :

"I would love to see the percentages of customers who actually buy additional batteries"

If you hop over to the iPhone thread, I think you'll see plenty of people who wouldn't hesitate to buy additional/replacement batteries for their phones.

The non-removable battery issue is less about people wanting additional batters/battery life initially, but in a year or two when their laptop/phone battery starts struggling to hold a charge the answer shouldn't be:

"Welp, time to buy a new phone/laptop."

The anecdotal Tech Talk evidence works both ways. The people here are more likely to carry extra batteries, but also more likely to not be affected by long-term charging issues. Meanwhile other less tech-savvy are in the exact opposite boat.

Also, telling people that their anecdotal evidence means nothing while quoting a blogger from MacWorld's anecdotal evidence as a killer point is horribly misguided.

3/12/2009 12:48:16 AM

As far as i can tell, both of you ^,^* are pulling anecdotes out of your ass. All that bullshit aside, sales say they are doing just fine finding a bunch of people who won't bitch over what you are bitching about.

3/12/2009 1:06:06 AM

Quote :

"and it's still kicking after using it while running, lifting, mtn. biking, heavy petting, etc. "

damn, you have sex with your ipod shuffle?

3/12/2009 1:14:11 AM

hahhaa, i wondered if anyone would catch that.

3/12/2009 10:33:19 AM

i did and decided to ignore it lol

3/12/2009 10:54:08 AM

My wife has the 2G Shuffle. I am looking at it now, and thinking about how small it really is.

And this picture makes it look huge compared to the new one



AppleInsider raises a good point - they literally cannot make it any thinner without using a new headphone jack-size


[Edited on March 12, 2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason : .]

3/12/2009 10:22:46 PM

Well, they could... There's a few mm left there, not to mention the clip could be integrated to the lower portion of the player. It would start bordering on ridiculous at that point. I think the current size is rather practical.

3/13/2009 2:49:00 AM

if by few you mean 1, then you are right.

3/13/2009 3:53:58 AM

the next shuffle will just be a pair of ear plugs.

3/13/2009 7:26:54 AM

shitty ear plugs though

3/13/2009 9:26:32 AM

Quote :

"the next shuffle will just be a pair of ear plugs."

perfect.

3/13/2009 10:29:41 AM

Babies are going to start being born with shuffles embedded in to their ears.

3/13/2009 5:24:26 PM

^ where can i sign my kid up for that

3/13/2009 5:51:31 PM

that thing does look like those ID chips you get put in your pets man

just get one for the baby

3/13/2009 9:54:00 PM

Why does it have a headphone jack at all? Why doesn't Apple embrace stereo bluetooth? That would be real bad ass, no buttons or jacks, just a sealed device. Third party bluetooth headphones already have play back controls built in. It could be charged wirelessly using induction charging technology that Palm Pre uses.

3/13/2009 11:15:48 PM

because bluetooth uses a shitload of power, requires a license, and that license+ic is pretty expensive.

3/13/2009 11:30:22 PM

I'm sure $80 is plenty enough to cover any license fees. Powering a headset probably takes just as much power as a Bluetooth radio.

3/14/2009 1:31:37 AM

So Apple is a BSiG member, so no direct fees.

However, just from a little googling, a bluetooth IC looks to cost ~$5 in quantity. Given that their profit margin on the shuffle is estimated at $20, that's a 25% loss in profit margins.

Also, if you do that, you then have to put bluetooth headphones in the box, which means another transceiver, another battery, and another PCB. Current iPod headphones run about 50 cents to manufacture. The cheapest awful bluetooth headset I've ever seen was ~$30. Then add profit margin on top of that.

You end up with a shuffle that costs you 120+ dollars. Thanks, I'll take the 80 dollar version.

3/14/2009 2:21:53 AM

Quote :

"Powering a headset probably takes just as much power as a Bluetooth radio.""

sigh.

3/14/2009 6:26:16 AM

^^ price has never been an obstacle for apple customers. Their cheapest line of iPods just went from $50 to $80. A $30 jump in price with reduced functionality, and the only thing people complain about is the loss of buttons, not the price increase. At least adding bluetooth would be a functional improvement over the last shuffle.

Since they are going for simplicity, why not build it into a headset altogether. They have certainly gotten the hardware down to a size where this can be done.

3/14/2009 9:27:07 AM

Quote :

"A $30 jump in price with reduced functionality"

well, technically 3GB extra storage and better headphones were added

3/14/2009 9:47:15 AM

The new headphones are not an improvement. They just moved the buttons from the device to the headphones. Actually this is worse, because now you have to buy headphones with increased functionality to compensate for the new shuffle design.

3/14/2009 10:04:28 AM

Quote :

"Babies are going to start being born with shuffles embedded in to their ears."

And when the battery dies you just toss the baby out and get a new one.

3/14/2009 1:48:24 PM

No real Audiophiles would be caught dead using an ipod in the first place... its a moot point.

3/14/2009 2:54:35 PM

oh, right - it's just vinyl and bourbon for you guys, isn't it.

3/14/2009 3:11:39 PM

Quote :

"^^ price has never been an obstacle for apple customers. Their cheapest line of iPods just went from $50 to $80. A $30 jump in price with reduced functionality, and the only thing people complain about is the loss of buttons, not the price increase. At least adding bluetooth would be a functional improvement over the last shuffle. Since they are going for simplicity, why not build it into a headset altogether. They have certainly gotten the hardware down to a size where this can be done."

Actually, the original 512mb shuffle was $99, with the 1gb being $149, then to 99/129, then to 69/99
The 2nd gen shuffle started out $79 for 1gb. Then a year and a half later they came out with the 2gb model and cut prices to 49/69.

This is consistent with every new model introduction of the shuffle. And I haven't heard anyone outside of media bloggers complain about the loss of buttons. Adding bluetooth wouldn't help anyone because NO ONE OWNS BLUETOOTH HEADPHONES (in a general market sense)

3/14/2009 8:43:42 PM

Quote :

"No real Audiophiles would be caught dead using an ipod in the first place... its a moot point."

its not a moot point simply for the fact that users are not divided into 2 distinct categories: audiophiles and people who don't care about sound quality at all. There is a lot of middle ground. Obviously you aren't getting the BEST sound out of an Ipod and a set of headphones when compared to running a nice system through studio monitors or something, but there is a big difference between good headphones and cheap headphones that is certainly recognizable and worth acknowledging.

Also, anyone who wouldn't "be caught dead" with an mp3 device because its not the best sound quality out there is a little too worried about appearing cool to the right people...

[Edited on March 14, 2009 at 9:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/14/2009 9:55:31 PM

and audiophiles listen to music when they're at work or the gym.

[Edited on March 14, 2009 at 11:25 PM. Reason : s]

3/14/2009 11:25:02 PM

for me its the simple matter that i have grown extremely fond of these for running/gym time:



and i wont be able to use them with the new shuffle

3/15/2009 3:28:19 PM

Quote :

"You end up with a shuffle that costs you 120+ dollars. Thanks, I'll take the 80 dollar version."

you don't buy apple because of price point. you buy apple because of functionality, quality, and features.

3/15/2009 3:41:58 PM

Jobs has done a good job at hoodwinking people. See post above, lol.

3/15/2009 3:43:19 PM

^are you saying apple products are just overall junk?

3/15/2009 3:46:57 PM

Almost always, price means the most. Features and functions only means so much when the device is really purchased for one thing, and that's to play music. If it plays music like it should, then all the bells and whistles are really unnecessary when you have to pay huge marked-up price to that of a comparable item to preform the essential function, and that's to play music. Extra features/functions or not, they are all easy to use.

3/15/2009 4:08:56 PM