i searched but didn't find anything. post a link if you do.

my dog has always had allergies, mainly fleas and corn. over the past 2 years she's started itching more and more, and now with the pollen it is absolutely terrible. benadryl is no help at all (recommended by her vet). she's always chewed her feet, but this week they started to bleed. obviously we're going to the vet (friday afternoon, the soonest i can get her there w/o taking off from work). other things i do are: always always on flea drop stuff, baths w/ soap free allergen specific shampoo, low allergen venison & potato formula food (no corn or chicken). she's very picky about food too and this one she actually likes.

she used to have such a pretty coat and got so many complements on it.

anyway, my question is for those who have had allergy testing done on your dog. did you do the blood test or skin test or both? how much did it cost? what kind of results did you get? did it work?

my vet's website says they do in-house allergy testing, both kinds, and it's "low cost". for treatment they start with an injection, show you how to do it, and send you home w/ the vials to do it yourself. no idea how much that costs either.

i'm going to spend the money either way, but i'd like to have an idea of costs ahead of time if possible. i can't stand to see her like this.

before allergies


[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

4/1/2009 10:12:50 AM

Darwin?


But seriously, allergy shot injections aren't cheap for humans so I wouldn't imagine its cheap for dogs either. If you can't afford those injections only option I see is giving the dog to someone that lives in a more hospitable climate for the animal.

FYI my roommate's dog was just diagnosised with being allergic to pollen. So while that sucks a simple medication given daily (not too $$ either) does the trick.

4/1/2009 12:54:26 PM

Check the merck veterinary manual for doses of claritin and zyrtec for dogs. Worth trying before you go spend the big money on testing.

4/1/2009 1:02:24 PM

Quote :

"If you can't afford those injections only option I see is giving the dog to someone that lives in a more hospitable climate for the animal."

please see:

Quote :

"i'm going to spend the money either way, but i'd like to have an idea of costs ahead of time if possible. i can't stand to see her like this. "

hell no i'm never giving away my dog. i knew before i got her or my other pets that they can be expensive.

Quote :

"Check the merck veterinary manual for doses of claritin and zyrtec for dogs. Worth trying before you go spend the big money on testing."

can you help me find this? i haven't been able to

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 1:39 PM. Reason : crazy]

4/1/2009 1:39:07 PM

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp
Antihistamines:
The efficacy of antihistamines for the treatment of pruritus is highly variable. The most commonly used antihistamines include hydroxyzine hydrochloride (2.2 mg/kg, PO, tid), diphenhydramine (2.2 mg/kg, PO, bid), amitriptyline hydrochloride (2.2 mg, PO, bid), cetirizine (5 mg/cat or 5-10 mg/dog, sid or bid), and fexofenadine (2-3 mg/kg, PO, sid or bid). A 7-10 day therapeutic trial of any one antihistamine is required to see maximum benefit.
Essential Fatty Acids:
Essential fatty acids (EFA) are rarely effective as sole antipruritic agents; however, they often act synergistically with antihistamines and/or glucocorticoids. They may enhance the effectiveness of antihistamines or allow a small dose of glucocorticoids to be used. The exact doses of EFA are unknown, but the current recommendation is 180 mg eicosapentaenoic acid/5 kg, PO, sid -bid.
Glucocorticoids:
Glucocorticoids are the most effective drugs in the management of pruritus. However, they cannot be used safely for longterm management due to adverse effects (eg, suppression of adrenal function, risk of development of diabetes mellitus, risk of secondary urinary tract infections). In addition, owners can rarely tolerate the common side effects ( polydipsia, polyuria, polyphagia, and panting) for long periods of time. Anti-inflammatory dosages range from 0.5-1.0 mg/kg, PO, sid for 5-10 days and then every other day.
Other Systemic Antipruritic Agents:
Other effective agents include cyclosporine 5-10 mg/kg, PO, sid), pentoxifylline (10-25 mg/kg, PO, bid-tid), and misoprostol (3-6 µg/kg, PO, tid).

Try giving some fish oil as well. I buy the capsules for humans, cut them open and squirt them over their food. My current retard cat is the only animal I have ever met that hasn't gone insane for fish oil and begged for more.

4/1/2009 1:58:38 PM

i finally found that a second ago. loratadine isn't listed there.

i found dosage for cetirizine (zyrtec): 5-10mg/dog, SID or BID (once a day/twice a day???). i didnt find it for loratadine (claritin) on that site. i found on other unreliable sites, like yahoo answers, that you just give one pill, which is 10mg. those come in readitabs that dissolve really fast. that might a great idea for a dog who is super good at pretending to swallow a pill and very suspicious of "treats".

sam's club: 300 count 10mg loratadine for $12.72 !!!

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 2:20 PM. Reason : ]

4/1/2009 2:18:01 PM

EOD/QOD = every other day
SID = once a day
BID = twice a day
TID = three times a day
QID = 4 times a day
PRN = as needed

4/1/2009 2:22:25 PM

Sam's club is the cheapest for claritin and zrytec generics.

4/1/2009 2:23:58 PM

awesome, thank you. i'm going to pick up like a 10 pack of claritin tonight and see how it goes the next couple of days. if that seems to work i'll get the 300 ct at sam's i guess and mia will just have to get used to have my hand crammed down her throat everyday. there's no sneaking it into food with her.

hmm, i didn't know they had zyrtec clones yet, but i haven't shopped allergy meds in a while. you think claritin or zyrtec would work better? opinions?

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 2:25 PM. Reason : ]

4/1/2009 2:24:22 PM

Try both, it just depends on the person or animal. Zyrtec probably works for a larger % of people, not sure about dogs.

4/1/2009 3:25:34 PM

^^

just so you know...antihistamines don't work very well on dogs. Their receptors don't function the same way that human's do.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like she has atopy, which is an unusual reaction to IgE.

As for treatment, it's usually recommended to use some sort of immune suppressive like prednisone (which of course, you dont want to keep her on long time)

The allergy skin testing is MUCH better than the blood test. More thorough and specific of a test.

I dont know anything about cost, but I would definately look into getting the skin testing and shots done.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 7:34 PM. Reason : . also, there's a new oral medication called "atopica" that she may be able to use. ]

4/1/2009 7:28:09 PM

^what??

Quote :

"Based on what you've said, it sounds like she has atopy, which is an unusual reaction to IgE."

Quote :

"Atopic individuals can have up to 10 times the normal level of IgE in their blood"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunoglobulin_E

granted that's wikipedia, and i am not a doctor, but i think you've got it backwards as far as ige is concerned.

i did pick up some loratadine and gave her one. she seems to be significantly less itchy, only 2 incidences of OMGIMGOINGTOTEARMYSKINOUT in the last 2 hours and she's acutally stayed in the room with the rest of us. still itchy, but not as miserable it seems. it's only been a few hours and it could be a fluke so we'll just see how the next few days go.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 9:13 PM. Reason : ]

4/1/2009 9:11:11 PM

I thought my dog had really bad skin allergies. He used to be really itchy, pretty much all the time. The vet couldn't figure out what it was. Thought it was a food allergy, so I switched his food up several times with no effect.

Then I started giving him fish oil pills. The problem went away in a couple weeks. I give him 2 a day, one in the morning and one in the evening. He hasn't had skin problems in months. Just a tip.

4/1/2009 9:14:06 PM

yeah i meant to put some in her food tonight and forgot. i will remember next time.

4/1/2009 9:16:28 PM

^^^ so...it's not a reaction TO IgE....but they have an abnormally large amount of IgE...so when they encounter a normal antigen/allergen that in normal individuals wouldnt evoke a major response...all the IgE they have goes crazy and causes mad reaction.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 9:45 PM. Reason : .

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 9:47 PM. Reason : . gosh i suck tonight.]

4/1/2009 9:44:07 PM

um, yeah ok.

im going to keep her on the loratadine for now. i really dont expect it to be as effective for the rest of her life, but we will take what we can get (for cheaper) right now. still going to the vet friday, she needs a vaccine, but i'll talk about all this w/ him and see what he thinks. they've been pretty receptive/understanding about costs lately w/ the economy and they dont pressure you into tests and what not as much.

4/1/2009 9:47:50 PM

I don't understand why antihistamine would be any less effective in dogs then it is in people. I haven't heard that. The overproduction of IgE increases the likelihood the allergen is bound up-there's more of them there waiting. IgE is attached to mast cells, once IgE binds the allergen the mast cell is stimulated to degranulate and what does it release...histamine. Histamine is involved in the itcy, inflammatory reaction your dog is experiencing...thus why ANTI-histamine works!

The skin test that is administered to determine exactly what your dog is allergic to, I've heard it is kind of pricey, but worth it if you have a really uncomfortable animal. The treatment is small doses of the allergen/s administered in low dose intervals and maintained through boosters later in life. This is to desensitize your dogs memory T-cells and subsequently IgE to the allergens.

I'm glad the Loratadine is working! When she gets really bad, it's not harmful to use Pred in a pinch. It's a wonder drug and will make her feel SOOO much better when the itching gets unbearable.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 10:07 PM. Reason : .]

4/1/2009 10:06:16 PM

^thats what i was thinking as far as loratadine vs steroids or other injections. right now is bad. its a pollen thing in addition to her normal allergies...so this, plus a short series of shots while waiting for the pollen to go away i think is a good way to go. we'll see what the vet says.

ive never been told that antihistamines dont work well in dogs either. they prescribe them all the time for dogs and theyre frequently effective. i think she/he/is just has no idea what shes/hes talking about.

[Edited on April 1, 2009 at 10:27 PM. Reason : ]

4/1/2009 10:26:15 PM

If benadryl didn't work I doubt that claritin/zytec would work. Benadryl is a much stronger antihistamine than either of those. I probably would get the skin test, identify the problem, treat it, and have a happy dog again.

4/1/2009 11:40:51 PM

claritin and zyrtec work in a different way than benadryl does, and zyrtec is stronger than claritin. i can't find anything online that supports your statement that benadryl works better than zyrtec or claritin, but if you have something i would love to have the link to it.

and in case you missed it:

Quote :

"i did pick up some loratadine and gave her one. she seems to be significantly less itchy, only 2 incidences of OMGIMGOINGTOTEARMYSKINOUT in the last 2 hours and she's acutally stayed in the room with the rest of us. still itchy, but not as miserable it seems. it's only been a few hours and it could be a fluke so we'll just see how the next few days go."

benadryl doesn't work for me either, by claritin and zyrtec definitely do.

4/2/2009 8:36:23 AM

For anyone getting human medicines for their dog, be sure to use regular Claritin or the generic (and of course ask the vet first!). Drugs with pseudoephedrine are toxic to dogs.

4/2/2009 11:34:53 AM

The main difference between benadryl and zyrtec/claritin is that benadryl is a first generation antihistamine meaning it crosses the blood brain barrier more readily and causes central nervous system side affects. 2nd generations such as zyrtec, claritin, allegra, etc do not penetrate the CNS. They both are used in type 1 hypersensitivity reactions and prevent histamine from binding to the smooth muscle of small veins, bronchi and intestines. They both inhibit IgE-induced mediator release from mast cells and basophils. They are both H1 receptor antagonists so they both reversibly compete with histamine at H1 receptors. First generation antihistamines are MORE effective than 2nd generation (hence, why you give benadryl for an anaphlylactic reaction, NOT claritin), but 2nd generations are more tolerated ( they usually don't cause sedation, etc).

that would be directly out of my lecture taught by a pharmacist, but if you know better than a pharmacist....

also, as for seeming less itchy... placebo effect perhaps.

However, how did the vet visit go?

4/2/2009 5:38:23 PM

i didnt say i didnt belive you and i specifically said i am not a doctor (nor am i a pharmacist)*. i said i wanted a citation or reference bc i couldnt find anything myself...although you still didnt link to anything. i dont not believe you, but im looking for something that explains the method of action and WHY benadryl is more effective than claritin, not just that it is.

*ive run into this problem multiple times on this site. im asking for an explanation, fully admitting that i dont understand and what someone to explain it to me, but people keep on giving me a hard time for not knowing. wtf i am trying to learn here.

yeah, placebo effect in a dog who doesnt know shes taking something? how does that work exactly?

your reading comprehension sucks. in addition to what i had to point out earlier, i also previously mentioned twice that i am taking her to the vet on friday, which is tomorrow, which has not occurred yet.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 8:07 PM. Reason : thanks]

4/2/2009 8:01:48 PM

Quote :

"yeah, placebo effect in a dog who doesnt know shes taking something? how does that work exactly?"

Umm no, idiot. I meant placebo affect in you. You gave the dog the meds so you thought she SEEMED better. I'm sure the dog knew about the claritin. I'm sorry I don't have eight hundred hours to read every word of your post and frankly lose track of the days of the week. If you would like to do research: http://www.pubmed.com

Sorry for trying to help. I told you what I know, sorry I didn't the time to find some ghetto wikipedia article to back it up.

Also

Quote :

"claritin and zyrtec work in a different way than benadryl does, and zyrtec is stronger than claritin"

where did you get the info that they work in different ways? Thats what I was trying to explain. You say zyrtec is stronger than claritin, which indeed it is. In the same way, benadryl is stronger than zyrtec.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 8:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 8:29:48 PM

i said

Quote :

"i did pick up some loratadine and gave her one. she seems to be significantly less itchy,"

you said

Quote :

"also, as for seeming less itchy... placebo effect perhaps."

so who else was i supposed to assume you were referring to? it was pretty obvious i wasnt talking about myself in that statement. there werent that many words in my post, and if youre not going to take the time to read then why reply? you know how this place works, you dont open your mouth until youve searched and done the research.

i dont need a wiki article and wasnt looking for one. ive been searching medical journals for the explanation.

in the article i read (which i will try to find again, i think it was webmd) about zyrtec working better than claritin, it never explained why...so by extension i dont know what makes benadryl better than the other two.

found it

Quote :

"Zyrtec is generally stronger than Claritin, but it's also ten times as expensive and requires a prescription."

http://blogs.webmd.com/allergies-and-asthma/2006/10/antihistamines-arent-addictive.html
its a doctors blog from 2006 (zyrtec was still a prescrip) and it doesnt say why zyrtec is better.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 8:43 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2009 8:40:56 PM

Take 'em to see the derm specialist at the vet school.

4/3/2009 1:15:01 AM

For allergies?!! Only if you want to spend more than you need to, for someone board certified in dermatology. This isn't an issue that needs specialized assistance.

4/3/2009 9:33:59 AM

yeah i'm pretty sure we won't take it that far

4/3/2009 9:52:05 AM

So how'd the visit go?

4/3/2009 7:37:01 PM

the vet explained the treatment options starting at most expensive to least. most was the skin test, which would be done at state. then the blood test ($275), atopica, oral steroids, occasional steroid injections, claritin/zyrtec, benadryl.

we talked it over, how uncomfortable mia actually is, how effective these things might be, etc.

we're going to keep her on the zyrtec (switched to zyrtec bc sam's had a deal) for about 3 weeks. if she's still pretty miserable then i'll bring her in for a steroid shot, which we'll do only during peak pollen times. if that still doesn't work, we'll progress from there (cross that bridge when we come to it). i can just drop by for the shot and they won't charge me a doctor visit fee.

we'll see how it goes...!

4/3/2009 8:54:13 PM

^^^^ They have an allergy clinic. Yes, its going to cost more to see a board certified dermatologist, but if you want answers and you want them right the first time then go to the people who really know the subject. They've saved us a lot of wasted time/trials with our dog's allergies.

Besides, I'm all about supporting board certified specialists... my wife takes the pathology boards this fall.

4/4/2009 1:44:49 AM