Is this shit getting out of control?

Its becoming so apparent nowadays in nearly every pop song on the radio. I thought it was ok for a guy like T-Pain to come along and use it to distort his voice but now all of 'em are doing it and its getting old. I guess its used a lot in country as well.

I don't hear it a lot in the music I like but maybe I'm wrong . . .

4/2/2009 2:20:59 PM

annoying, overused...almost as annoying as the pitchcorrected voices already heard in pop though. I mean even when something isnt autuned, listen to a song from the new britney spears album and find a few second span where her voice isnt doctored up beyond all get out. They might as well be sampling every vocal line from a pro tools sound board.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 2:26 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2009 2:24:16 PM

is that what its called???? i didnt know the name of it but i feel like everyone posed off Daft Punk and its just ridiculously out of control now.

4/2/2009 2:25:11 PM

do you believe in life after love?

what about melodyne? I grabbed the auto tune plugin and g-snap so i could fuck around like t-pain but i feel too much like an idiot doing it.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 2:27 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 2:25:42 PM

and i miss youuu....like the desert missed the rain...

4/2/2009 2:27:30 PM

I compared it to airbrushing women in Playboy

that has to stop too - face reality people

4/2/2009 2:28:27 PM

pretty much. In my opinion the imperfections and quirks are what makes stuff great in a lot of art. I listen to certain bands and LOVE their early albums because they were so raw and gritty vs overproduced stuff later in their career. Especially now with digital editing. Listen to pavement, or mars volta (esp deloused), or get up kids (four minute mile) etc. etc. These types of efforts have that raw feeling, even some messups in them that let them breathe. Once you only take the exact perfect take and then clean it up x1000 with a computer, you are taking the human emotion out of art.

And don't get me wrong, I LOVE pro tools and digital editing because of ease of use and cool stuff you can do. But people have taken it WAY too far.

4/2/2009 2:33:06 PM

Quote :

"i didnt know the name of it but i feel like everyone posed off Daft Punk and its just ridiculously out of control now."

vocoders are much, much older than daft punk

4/2/2009 2:34:43 PM

and here i thought that daft punk album a number of years ago (2001?) was way out of control with the vocoding.

4/2/2009 2:35:30 PM

Quote :

"get up kids (four minute mile)"

god i love that album

4/2/2009 2:36:51 PM

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/86a76df842/tpain-v-his-vocoder-from-tpain

hahahahahaha

4/2/2009 3:10:28 PM

Quote :

"A vocoder is an analysis / synthesis system, mostly used for speech in which the input is passed through a multiband filter, each filter is passed through an envelope follower, the control signals from the envelope followers are communicated, and the decoder applies these (amplitude) control signals to corresponding filters in the (re)synthesizer. It was originally developed as a speech coder for telecommunications applications in the 1930s, the idea being to code speech for transmission. Its primary use in this fashion is for secure radio communication, where voice has to be encrypted and then transmitted. The advantage of this method of "encryption" is that no 'signal' is sent, but rather envelopes of the bandpass filters. The receiving unit needs to be set up in the same channel configuration to resynthesize a version of the original signal spectrum. The vocoder as both hardware and software has also been used extensively as an electronic musical instrument."

learning this has made surfing TWW every minute worth it.


so who has CoolEditPro and who knows what settings on the envelope filter to apply it to during recording? shouldnt it have to be live to get the filter to process pitch shifts, therefore you would have to go in manually after recording it to add it?

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 3:14:50 PM

i love this shit.

because there are people out here who think these moranz can actually sing.

i wish i could get away with this.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/2/2009 3:41:07 PM

^you could! autotune deathgrind band d00d

4/2/2009 3:43:13 PM

we tried it.

it doesn't work on growling. our vocalist (ab)used it to record some parody songs. i love fuckin auto tune.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 3:45 PM. Reason : shits hilarious]

4/2/2009 3:44:20 PM

bummer

4/2/2009 3:45:05 PM

anyone know the deal with cooledit?

4/2/2009 3:51:10 PM

Definitely way out of hand, especially in pop. Probably gets used in more subtle ways in most genres though...

4/2/2009 3:52:05 PM

^^ i use cooledit but ive never done that :/

4/2/2009 3:52:57 PM

i cant wait to get home now hahaha.

4/2/2009 3:54:33 PM

yea auto-tune is great for parodies

i'm pretty sure those UNC guys used it in that Greg Paulus youtube video

4/2/2009 3:58:55 PM

its happening because record labels aren't willing to pay for the few extra (or in some cases, many extra) takes it requires to get it right.

4/2/2009 4:13:35 PM

i remember an interview with neko case where she said that in the recording studio for fox confessor the producer or engineer or someone asked if she wanted any auto-tuning done. when she declined, the guy said that she was the first singer of any genre to not use auto-tune in a LONG time at his studio (with the exception of one person (at that studio). i forget who, but it was some female vocalist i don't really care for, who i gained a little respect for after that). kinda opened my eyes a little.



[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 4:15 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 4:13:46 PM

we used a slight pitch bender on our record, but it just took out some notes that were sharp or flat and put it on key.

it didn't bend it in between note changes.

4/2/2009 4:15:11 PM

^^i was reading about this stuff all morning

it was nelly furtado

4/2/2009 4:21:56 PM

Maroon 5 - She will be loved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8IQlax-egE

You too can have perfect pitch every time just like that dude.

How do you guys feel on the subject of triggered drums? Everyone in the industry does that too nowadays.

4/2/2009 4:35:36 PM

Triggered Drums are okay if you don't tweak the pedals so that you can play 900bpm with 0 effort.
but its lame to trigger anything other than your bass drum.

basically don't get stuck playing stuff that you can't play without triggers.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/2/2009 4:42:20 PM

Depends. In general? I am not a fan but there are some times I am lenient...more related to sound replacement than live triggering though (somewhat similar concept I guess). I had a big rant in the metal thread about a few bands I have known recently that literally went into the studio, and programmed all of their drums off of a pallet of of drum hits he did the first day. (I know that programmed drums arent that common but meh).

BUT I will admit that double bass on a metal record is a touchy subject. I do NOT condone adding hits to make it faster than you actually did do it, what I am lenient on is that sometimes when doing long, fast rolls, every hit is not done with the exact same force which can sound odd in a good bass heavy mix. In this case, I am ok with sound replacing weak kick hits to smooth the roll out (note there are no added kicks here or anything). Would I prefer not to? yes, but its a nitpicky thing I am ok with compromising on to save time.

Basically I am ok with it smoothing out snare and bass drum hits *on stuff that you can play the rhythm to yourself*

EDIT:

Quote :

"Triggered Drums are okay if you don't tweak the pedals so that you can play 900bpm with 0 effort. but its lame to trigger anything other than your bass drum. basically don't get stuck playing stuff that you can't play without triggers."

bingo, beat me to it.



[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2009 4:45:34 PM

don't get stuck singing stuff you can't sing without autotune

lulz


live, triggering is almost mandatory in any metal with double bass. it just get does not cut through the mix the same way without triggers.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/2/2009 4:48:46 PM

exactly why we don't sing on our records A ton of metal bands doctor their singing vocals up hardcore so that they can have some on their record. I refuse to do that even though I wish we had some singing since our new stuff is much more melody driven than heavy driven.

Quote :

"live, triggering is almost mandatory in any metal with double bass. it just get does not cut through the mix the same way without triggers."

yea we've thought about doing that. We never have before but his bass drum on his current kick just has no balls in the mix. His old one did but he likes this overall kit better, oh well.

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : ]

4/2/2009 4:50:11 PM

makes me think of old opeth, how much his voice sucked and how much better his clean vocals are than his 'perfect' ones now. just feels alot faker and theres less like emotion masked by the fact that he's trying to hit all the notes perfectly.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

4/2/2009 4:51:10 PM

Quote :

"it was nelly furtado"

yes thank you.

and i'll reiterate my love for neko case. especially her new album. it really is excellent.

and here's the section of interview:

Quote :

"Pitchfork: You seem like somebody who would be especially annoyed by the "American Idol"-ization of modern pop. Case: You mean the horrible singing? Pitchfork: Yes. Case: When I think about Jackie Wilson or the Platters and then I think about modern, Top 40 music that's really horrible, it makes me mad. Singing isn't important anymore. I'm not a genius-- if I had been around during the time of Jackie Wilson or Rosemary Clooney or Patsy Cline, I would be shit. I would be singing in some bar somewhere for $5 a week and that's as far as I would ever go. But I'm living now and I write songs, it's different. There's some part about the craft of singing-- craft is too important of a word, I hate that word but I just used it anyway-- in a lot of places, it hasn't really made it. It's not to do with the people who are doing it as much as the people who are producing it. There's technology like auto tune and pitch shifting so you don't have to know how to sing. That shit sounds like shit! It's like that taste in diet soda, I can taste it-- and it makes me sick. When I hear auto tune on somebody's voice, I don't take them seriously. Or you hear somebody like Alicia Keys, who I know is pretty good, and you'll hear a little bit of auto tune and you're like, "You're too fucking good for that. Why would you let them do that to you? Don't you know what that means?" It's not an effect like people try to say, it's for people like Shania Twain who can't sing. Yet there they are, all over the radio, jizzing saccharine all over you. It's a horrible sound and it's like, "Shania, spend an extra hour in the studio and you'll hit the note and it'll sound fine. Just work on it, it's not like making a burger!" Pitchfork: She's pretty busy making videos and shit though. Case: It's rough, I know. She's so rich she could get somebody else to do the other stuff while she spends that extra hour in the studio. Or Madonna! Just hit the note! Don't pretend it's William Orbit being crafty-- we know you're not hitting the note because you have other shit to do. You can do it, I have faith in you. But don't leave the studio before you hit that fucking note. And you know what? When you do hit it you're going to feel so much more valid that it'll come through in all the other shit you're supposed to be doing later in the day. Seriously! And if Celine Dion is supposedly the great singer that she says she is why is there auto tune on every fucking word in her songs? Can't you just hit it, Celine? Do you have another baby book to shoot? You gotta paint your baby to look like a pot of peas? What are you doing that you can't be singing in the studio? It's your fucking job! Pitchfork: Hey, that baby book is beautiful. Case: You know that's the grossest thing I've ever seen. That was so nasty I almost had to hate some babies for that. But babies came back and said, "I'm not responsible for this, they made me do it." So I decided that I still love babies. Pitchfork: You seem to be following this book closely. Case: It's so easy to follow! I don't even have a TV or a radio in my house and it's easy to follow. Pitchfork: Anyway, I take it you're not a fan of auto tune. Case: I'm not a perfect note hitter either but I'm not going to cover it up with auto tune. Everybody uses it, too. I once asked a studio guy in Toronto, "How many people don't use auto tune?" and he said, "You and Nelly Furtado are the only two people who've never used it in here." Even though I'm not into Nelly Furtado, it kind of made me respect her. It's cool that she has some integrity. Pitchfork: So you're willing to write off the entire Top 40 at this point? Case: Pretty much. "

http://pitchfork.com/features/interviews/6306-neko-case/

[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 4:55 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 4:51:20 PM

well the reason i started reading about it is i'm going to see death cab next thursday and i heard they wore blue ribbons at the grammys to protest auto-tune

so i started reading about it and ran across that interview

and this one

http://www.hometracked.com/2008/02/05/auto-tune-abuse-in-pop-music-10-examples/

4/2/2009 5:02:26 PM

i haven't really been into death cab since photo album. but i've been meaning to check out their last album because i've heard it's better.

i think it might be that their later drummers just don't compare to the drummer(s) on their first three albums.

4/2/2009 5:07:32 PM

i know i'm in the vast minority here, but i have no problem w/ autotune, and the reason being that music is about creating something that people like to listen to. the fact that a person does not have the ability to sing up to par shouldn't keep them from making music if they can write good music.

i am way more annoyed by singers that don't write their own songs than i am by autotune.

guys like t-pain really overdoing the voice to the point that it doesn't sound like an actual voice anymore is an issue of taste imo, not of recording ethics or whathaveyou.

4/2/2009 5:13:06 PM

it would be fine with me if there were only guys like t-pain who use it exclusively

but its getting to the point where everyone is doing it and everything is sounding so processed and similar

4/2/2009 5:18:39 PM

^^my big rubbing point is that then these people can't perform live to save their lives. and i for one like to see bands live.

and often it is done poorly and can be annoying


[Edited on April 2, 2009 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/2/2009 5:20:14 PM

Quote :

"i know i'm in the vast minority here, but i have no problem w/ autotune, and the reason being that music is about creating something that people like to listen to. the fact that a person does not have the ability to sing up to par shouldn't keep them from making music if they can write good music. "

I respect this opinion, but I think anyone with half an interest in quality music gave up on pop in the past 10 years when they could feel this sort of thing was creeping into the music. The pitch shifting has the amazing ability of making the music soulless. Shit wasn't like this when we were in high school.

Quote :

" i am way more annoyed by singers that don't write their own songs than i am by autotune."

Smokey Robinson and all of Motown just died a little inside.

4/2/2009 6:27:41 PM

Quote :

"i am way more annoyed by singers that don't write their own songs than i am by autotune."

yeah, that elvis guy sucks. patsy cline was fucking terrible, too. ronnie spector...garbage.

4/3/2009 12:53:53 AM

ROBOT VOICE! ROBOT VOICE!
ALL THE KIDS LOVE THE ROBOT VOICE!

4/3/2009 12:08:38 PM

if Blake Richardson doesnt need to trigger his drums to play his stuff live, then fuck no one else needs to either


lazy fucks

4/4/2009 3:03:26 AM

^^^ just like everyone that uses autotune fucking sucks.

4/4/2009 11:27:16 AM

i can't think of any decent musician who uses autotune as a fix rather than an aesthetic choice

anyway, the point is this: some people can perform and sing wonderfully, but can't write worth a damn. others are great songwriters who weren't blessed with a great voice. it's not any different than a playwright who hires an actor to be the lead in his play instead of doing it himself, or a football team that hires a coach to design a play for their star tailback.

while it's perfectly fine for someone who isn't the best singer to perform his or her own songs (malkmus, for instance), it's disingenuous to present that person as a great singer by using auto-tune to clean up their performance when there are great singers in the world who have made their reputation on the quality of their voices, regardless of whether or not they're good writers

4/4/2009 4:22:58 PM

I think the Auto-Tune sound will end up being a thing mostly of this decade. Any time there is an excess in overproduced music there is usually a counter-revolution of sorts. Think about all the 70s semi acoustic singer-songwriters in contrast to the 60s Wall of Sound types.

4/5/2009 9:08:36 PM

^^agreed almost completely.

Of course there's going to be terrible pop "artists" out there who neither write nor sing well, and as such are basically just a face for someone else's music. It's a bastardization of an art form, and they don't deserve an ounce of the fame that they get, but stuff like that will always be around, and people with any musical sense won't be listening to it anyway.

Someone like T-pain (hooray for overused examples!) whose music is basically meant for autotune is fine (I'm assuming here that he's also the one writing or creating most of it, too... frankly I don't know). Creating a synthesized voice sound is just that... you can't really get it with a real voice and if it's written for that then it adds to the music.

Someone portrayed for their singing, though, using it as a way to fix vocal fuck-ups is just a damn shame.

4/5/2009 11:07:28 PM

eh...


I know personally practicing in our practice space if we don't have the triggers set up you can't even hear the bass drum. Then again its like a 20x15 room. The symbols and bass guitar just overpower it

If you're going to a show and band one has triggers then the next doesn't its like well fuck i can't hear shit.

As far as live goes... it has nothing to do with being lazy or being better. Recording is one thing, but without fucking with your pedal spring tension there aren't many big metal bands that don't use triggers on at least the bass drum.

I mean i feel the same way about distortion with guitar. If i can't play a riff completely clean then i will not present it to my band as something i can play.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

[Edited on April 6, 2009 at 2:34 AM. Reason : ]

4/6/2009 2:31:44 AM

what bothers me is that auto tune is replacing practice and determination to get something right. you can't sing it? well don't spend hours working on it, we don't have time for that. we'll just auto tune it and move on.

4/6/2009 12:02:05 PM

Robot voice
robot voice
all the kids love
the robot voice


^exactly its the less noticable autotunes that are the problem. Everyone and their grandma knows lil weezy or whoever the fuck it is auto tunes like everything he says in every song. thats okay because thats his style.

What is not okay is every fuckin blonde chick marketted as a 'singer' who gets up to stage live and is completely tone deaf and off key.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

[Edited on April 6, 2009 at 12:27 PM. Reason : ]

4/6/2009 12:25:22 PM

Quote :

"i think it might be that their later drummers just don't compare to the drummer(s) on their first three albums."

i dont see where Death Cab's drummers play any significant role in the development and sound of the band. all of their drummers are straight forward, fit with the music style. simple and replaceable if you ask me

4/6/2009 3:22:58 PM

i don't think that technically it's always the most difficult stuff. but the choices made (especially on their first two albums) were always very good.

4/6/2009 4:49:45 PM