As the ongoing struggle against evil drugs continues school officials strip search girl after being tipped off that she possesses crack perscription oxycontin Marijuana ibuprofen pills!!

Fear not America as public school system is ready to do what is necessary to protect the children against the harms of dangerous aspirin use

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/19/scotus.strip.search/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Quote :

"he case of a 13-year-old Arizona girl strip-searched by school officials looking for ibuprofen pain-reliever will be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court this week. The justices in January accepted the Safford school district case for review, and will decide whether a campus setting gives school administrators greater discretion to control students suspected of illegal activity than police are allowed in cases involving adults in general public spaces. The case is centered around Savana Redding, now 19, who in 2003 was an eighth-grade honors student at Safford Middle School, about 127 miles from Tucson, Arizona. Redding was strip-searched by school officials after a fellow student accused her of providing prescription-strength ibuprofen pills. The school has a zero-tolerance policy for all prescription and over-the-counter medication, including the ibuprofen, without prior written permission."

Seriously though this "0 tolerance" crap has gotten a little out of control. You would think the school officials would be capable of a little discretion to be like "hmm perhaps strip searching a 13 yr old for an aspirin; that anyone can roll into CVS to buy is a little over kill".

4/20/2009 12:36:34 PM

Not to mention what kind of fuck NARC's about an IBUPROFIN in the first place.

4/20/2009 12:46:41 PM

snitches get stitches

4/20/2009 12:50:25 PM

Quote :

"that anyone with a perscription can roll into CVS to buy is a little over kill"

Quote :

"Redding was strip-searched by school officials after a fellow student accused her of providing prescription-strength ibuprofen pills."

It is a bit much that she was strip searched because of a simple accusation from another student.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 12:56 PM. Reason : -]

4/20/2009 12:55:37 PM

does anyone know the case history leading up to this? I have to believe the courts have sided with the girl in each, and the school system has appealed each time.

i think one of the key issues here is does one student NARCing on another constitute enough of a reason for school officials to even search another student. consider what would be required if this exact event didn't happen at school. kid tells the cops that the girl is selling prescription ibuprofen, cops need to decide if its credible. then get a warrant (ie. a judge also thinks its credible) then the girl can be searched.

this case I feel may create cause for setting up of a school system internal judge to determine credible threats/information

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 1:00 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2009 12:56:11 PM

I guess its out of the question to have the kid's parents come in and take care of it?

4/20/2009 1:00:40 PM

I may be wrong but i was under the impression that there is no difference between "perscription" IBUprofin and OTC except each perscription pill is the equivalent of like 2 or 3 OTC pills.

This is neglecting to that even as prescription this is not like we are talking about someschedule IV like drug like codeine.

4/20/2009 1:07:21 PM

^Yeah, I'd question the NARC's ability to tell the difference as well - further deteriorating their credibility. Either way it's not a good idea to go around school selling any king of drugs. Back when I was in HS you'd get into some kind of trouble for selling candy. Candy. I can't remember the punishment attached to that. It's been too long.

I guess the kid was going around advertising prescription strength ibuprofen, or the whole thing was made up. And yeah. A strip search on an allegation. Huge overreaction and sets a bad precedence.

Steps for a huge perv:
1) Become a HS administrator
2) Get people to NARC out people on a list you give them
3)


[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 1:24 PM. Reason : -]

4/20/2009 1:18:33 PM

If any school personnel strip search my daughter over an allegation from another student, I will be the one going to jail after I find the administrator who made that decision.

Unless the student was an immediate threat to others, just isolate her in an office somewhere and call her parents to come deal with it. What's so freaking difficult about this? The one thing I take solace in is that the stories where teachers and administrators use common sense don't make it to the press.

4/20/2009 1:20:23 PM

In this case, it appears "Strip-search" means go into a room with a female nurse and remove your clothes except for your bottom underwear. Its the same as any normal public-school medical examination. Hardly "Traumatic".

I'm not going to speculate whether it was warranted in this particular situation, but perscription IBUPROFEN can definitely fuck up a kids stomach. If I were principal, I would want any pills accounted for ASAP. Kids getting sick from perscription drugs at a middle school is a bigger deal than a strip-search.

Then again, I dont think one child's allegation is enough to warrant a search. There would have to be additional suspicious activity.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 2:23 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2009 2:19:20 PM

^ the kid is 13

the MOST that should be done is the kid stays in detention until the parents get there.

And while going through school, i've never heard of anyone being strip searched in school by a school nurse or otherwise.

4/20/2009 2:34:11 PM

oh no's little timmy may get a tummy ache ^

Get real; a 12-14 yr old should possess some common sense about use of aspirin/IBUprofin/acetominophen else
we'd have a real epidemic as any middle age kid likely has access to the household first aid kit or can bike to the local
CVS

Quote :

"Unless the student was an immediate threat to others, just isolate her in an office somewhere and call her parents to come deal with it. "

ya no fucking shit. If this were my child I would probably be leave that school in cuffs. If this were fucking pain pills or even
Adderall I might have some understanding. IBUprofin (even if eekk perscription strength) cut me a fuckign break.

Probably all that happened was...

Girl A: "I got some major menstrual cramps today; Sally do you have any Aspirin"
Sally: "here have an IBUprofen my doctor gave me after I was really sore when my 15 yr old b/f popped my cherry"
Girl A: "thanks!"

Bitch C: "OMG DRUGS I'm telling!!!!"

4/20/2009 2:36:00 PM

i

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 2:36 PM. Reason : i]

4/20/2009 2:36:00 PM

Quote :

"ya no fucking shit. If this were my child I would probably be leave that school in cuffs."

You would go to jail over this? Seriously?

Stop acting like they raped her... they probably could have handled it a little better but if there's a chance a kid has some drugs in school, they need to be found and dealt with. What if the pills had been something other than ibuprofen?

4/20/2009 4:25:57 PM

The key here is not the pills, the key is the decision to strip her based on allegations from another student.

I hate to assume that you don't have a daughter on this one, aimorris. The thought of anyone in a position of power over my daughter deciding that her clothes should be removed would drive me to at least desire physical harm on the person in question. I don't care if it's only in front of a female school nurse in a closed room. It's humiliating and far past the boundary of in lieu parenting that school officials should abide. At the very least I would pull my daughter out of the school, and have whatever assface authorized this action's job.

So why would it not be reasonable to isolate the student, call their parents in, and sit down and determine exactly what, if any type of substance they have? If stripping is necessary, then school officials leave the room and let the parents do it. Hopefully, you don't suck so much as a parent that you couldn't get your kid to admit what they've done.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

4/20/2009 4:42:46 PM

Quote :

"So why would it not be reasonable to isolate the student, call their parents in, and sit down and determine exactly what, if any type of substance they have?"

I'd say this applies even if she were supposedly dealing ectasy in class. Regardless of parental locus the schools authority stops at strip search. If they feel they have the evidence to suspend her than so be it even if she has to prove her innocence. In no way though should schools be able to strip search a youth based on what in court would be "questionable" testimony.

Besides even a shred of common sense would suggest that a 13 yr old girl or a 17 yr old punk drug head would not be trying to "smuggle" IBUprofin to school to get high.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 5:05 PM. Reason : a]

4/20/2009 5:03:59 PM

I think this is a pretty interesting argument. Put aside the whole ibuprofen deal (it is a felony in NC but that is for another day). The police can't have people submit to random searches but the public can. I.e. when you go to Carter Finley and the stadium staff searches you. The police can't randomly search you because their are an agent of the government so my argument is; wouldn't the schools fall under the same umbrella? Although they are not sworn, it seems like they should.

At my school, you pretty much signed a booklet saying you understand you can have your locker searched, etc. If you didn't sign the document, you didn't go to school. This is way off topic btw, but even though the school owns the locker, I have exclusive use of it; doesn't that give me an expectation of privacy for the contents of the locker? I think schools just have too much authority in the name of student 'safety.'

4/20/2009 5:16:25 PM

Quote :

"Get real; a 12-14 yr old should possess some common sense about use of aspirin/IBUprofin/acetominophen else we'd have a real epidemic as any middle age kid likely has access to the household first aid kit or can bike to the local CVS"

Don't be so cavalier about OTC medications--aspirin and (particularly) acetaminophen can be very dangerous. I would expect school officials to show interest in any situation where a child had more than the couple of pills that constitute normal usage during a school day (don't know how many the child allegedly had in this situation).

Strip Bodily searches should only be allowed when there's reasonable suspicion that such a search is neccessary to prevent immediate harm to a particular student or another person. This was certainly not the case here. Requirements would obviously be looser for purses, bookbags, lockers, etc.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 5:25 PM. Reason : ]

4/20/2009 5:24:18 PM

Quote :

"oh no's little timmy may get a tummy ache ^"

More like gastrointestinal bleeding and liver damage.

Quote :

"Get real; a 12-14 yr old should possess some common sense about use of aspirin/IBUprofin/acetominophen else"

I'd wager that almost no 12-14 year olds have the knowledge to choose appropriate dosages of prescription versus OTC medicines. Give them the two bottles and they'll probably figure it out after a little while, but if someone really is selling individual pills it's not going to happen.

My points are relatively moot because I don't think there was much risk even if she was selling prescription pills, but I wouldn't rule the risk out entirely.

Quote :

"There, at [vice principal Kerry] Wilson's behest, [Wilson's administrative assistant Helen] Romero and the school nurse, Peggy Schwallier, conducted a strip search of Savana. The officials had Savana peel off each layer of clothing in turn. First, Savana removed her socks, shoes and jacket for inspection for ibuprofen. The officials found nothing. Then, Romero asked Savana to remove her T-shirt and stretch pants. Embarrassed and scared, Savana complied and sat in her bra and underwear while the two adults examined her clothes. Again, the officials found nothing. Still progressing with the search, despite receiving only corroboration of Savana's pleas that she did not have any ibuprofen, Romero instructed Savana to pull her bra out to the side and shake it. Savana followed the instructions, exposing her naked breasts in the process. The shaking failed to dislodge any pills. Romero next requested that Savana pull out her underwear at the crotch and shake it. Hiding her head so that the adults could not see that she was about to cry, Savana complied and pulled out her underwear, revealing her pelvic area. No ibuprofen was found. The school officials finally stopped and told Savana to put her clothes back on and accompany Romero back to Wilson's office. Savana did not freely agree to this search. She was "embarrassed and scared, but felt [she] would be in more trouble if [she] did not do what they asked." In her affidavit, Savana described the experience as "the most humiliating experience" of her short life, and felt "violated by the strip search." (emphasis added)"

http://www.thisistrue.com/blog-zt_v_savana_redding_a_court_decision.html

I fully support this being heard in court.

4/20/2009 5:38:55 PM

Quote :

" aside the whole ibuprofen deal (it is a felony in NC but that is for another day). "

Are you sure?

I was under the impression that possession of even a schedule IV controlled substance (codeine, xanax) was not even a criminal offense as
long as you were not caught distributing, buying or selling.

Quote :

"when you go to Carter Finley and the stadium staff searches you"

This is apples and orange's

At carter finley they do not require a strip search and even just a pat down got them into heat during 07 football season when some girl
complained a staff member was conducting a very "detailed" pat down.

Besides I can always be like "NO" and not submit to the pat down. I may lose my ticket but this is my right. A 13 yr old girl does not really
have this option and it is even questionable, given a child's conditioning to submit to authority, that they would resist such a search
if it was done with a malicious or sexual intent.

Let's not forget, although off subject, that is they only conduct such pat downs of students who are treated as 2nd class citizens. A
normal ticket holder even if some 18yr pot dealer does not face such treatment; as long as they enter through the normal gate.

Quote :

"you can have your locker searched"

I don't necessarily have a problem with the locker since it is "school" property. Not sure how i feel about bookbags. The question is firm
though when it comes to searchs that involving touching or removing of clothes from a youth. If they have such reason of belief that a kid
has an illegal substance then they need to call the parents or have law enforcement involved. If the police do not have the evidence to search
someone than in no way should some hot head power hungry principal.


^^ you are right about the harms the problem is the school justified it as part of their "0 tolerance" against drugs. Obviously IBUprofen is no a psychoactive substance and in way have i gotten the impression was this search done in "fear" of a suicide or poisoning attempt.

Quote :

"I'd wager that almost no 12-14 year olds have the knowledge to choose appropriate dosages of prescription versus OTC medicines"

Can they read the bottle? I'd say no more risk of fucking up from overdose if even less than some idiot adult who is drunk then pops a random number of pill they clumsily shake out.



[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 5:43 PM. Reason : l]

4/20/2009 5:39:52 PM

There is a big difference between a drunk adult popping OTC pills without taking appropriate precautions and a naive kid in school receiving prescription pills from a friend.

4/20/2009 5:51:41 PM

Quote :

"In this case, it appears "Strip-search" means go into a room with a female nurse and remove your clothes except for your bottom underwear. Its the same as any normal public-school medical examination. Hardly "Traumatic". "

I don't know how they do things here in NC, but when I was in school, there was never any "normal" event that required me to strip to my underwear. Hell I didn't even get searched when they thought I was selling firearms and plotting to kill my friends (long long story involving what happens when people assume and the reason I adamantly oppose zero tolerance policies of any type).

Quote :

"naive kid in school receiving prescription pills from a friend."

Unless they're taking them for kicks, I assume most kids are smart enough to know a) how many pills they usually take at home when they take advil and b) to ask their friend who gave them the pill for pain relief what the appropriate dosage was. I fully realize that appropriate doses will vary, but its fairly safe to assume that 500mg of advil that is safe for one generic 13 year old girl is likely safe for another generic 13 year old girl.

4/20/2009 6:40:13 PM

This is disgusting... and keeps happening on and off.

But I don't understand how it can be done. What if the child resists and says no? They can't touch your or force you, because they are not the police.

So how come it keeps happening if the only thing the students have to do to stop it is to just say no?

4/20/2009 6:56:54 PM

It doesn't stipulate all the details in her case but if this occurred in NC. If the pills were not hers, the correct charge is Possession of a Controlled Substance IV. This is a Class 1 misdemeanor. If she had more that 100 units, its a felony. If she sold, gave, whatever to another student, she can be charged with PWISD Schedule IV; a Class I Felony.

4/20/2009 7:07:01 PM

Quote :

"So how come it keeps happening if the only thing the students have to do to stop it is to just say no?"

Are you asking why a child might have a hard time telling an authority figure no?

-----

The cynic in me wonders if this more a calculated financial risk on part of the school district, vice a principled stand. The cost of finding court support may be less than civil liabilities if a court finds the school district at fault.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 7:14 PM. Reason : ]

4/20/2009 7:12:12 PM

Quote :

"But I don't understand how it can be done. What if the child resists and says no? They can't touch your or force you, because they are not the police. So how come it keeps happening if the only thing the students have to do to stop it is to just say no?"

Because more than any other environment your kids will be exposed to, public schools in the US are about conformity, obeying authority no matter how ridiculous, and asking "How high?"

4/20/2009 7:56:08 PM

Quote :

"If the pills were not hers, the correct charge is Possession of a Controlled Substance IV. This is a Class 1 misdemeanor. If she had more that 100 units, its a felony. If she sold, gave, whatever to another student, she can be charged with PWISD Schedule IV; a Class I Felony."

Also, I could be missing it, but I don't find Ibuprofen at any strength, listed in the general statutes as a controlled substance. Nor does the controlled substance act have any sections regarding the restriction of substances not listed on any of the state control schedules. And I'm fairly positive that you won't find Ibuprofen on the federal control schedules. So I'm not quite sure what you think she's guilty of, but possession of a controlled substance isn't it.

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 8:34 PM. Reason : dsf]

4/20/2009 8:33:52 PM

^ I think he was answering my general question above about if hypothetically if she had any Schedule IV like codeine, benzos, etc.

Perhaps only California mere possession of schedule IV illegally is an infraction or any crime at all. Restricted believe it or not Pat MyKrotch is a 1st year law student out there haha; I could have swore he told me this but perhaps it was that state law only.

4/20/2009 10:30:17 PM

^I was trying to use that as an example. I was under the impression that these prescription strength contained narcotics.

But as far as things like Xanax, Kalopin, etc All of those are scheduled. If you are in possession of these substances without a valid Rx, you can be charged.



[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 10:41 PM. Reason : That was like 10 edits, I give up]

[Edited on April 20, 2009 at 10:43 PM. Reason : Edit like 11]

4/20/2009 10:34:57 PM

Quote :

"I was under the impression that these prescription strength contained narcotics. "

yeah they do mix tylenol with some opiate derivs like codeine, hydrocodone, Oxycontin, etc; but for some reason they make some that is just regular aspirin. Not sure why when the doctor could just be like "take 3 Tylenol instead of 2 the normal dose"

4/20/2009 11:19:16 PM

disco_stu, I agree now I've seen the details of the entire search - that's unbelievable. I mean, I always thought it was wrong which is why I said it could've been handled better, but yeah, if I had found out they made my daughter do all that, I would have been a pretty pissed off dude.

But since the topic has turned to the severity of even possessing ibuprofen - it is a big deal because we're dealing with (potentially) stupid ass kids who can find a way to overdose and do damage no matter what kind of drug we're dealing with. And we all know if a kid somehow overdosed on school grounds, the school's administration and faculty would be fucking crucified for somehow letting it happen on their watch.

as a side note - I asked my dad (a middle school assistant principal) about this and he said there was no way in hell he would ever have a student strip-searched and absolutely no way in hell he would have a girl strip-searched. The most they ever do is have the kid empty his pockets and take off his shoes. He also said just an anonymous tip is always enough for them to have that done. I'm not sure what it would take for a more in-depth search, although I'm guessing it would involve the SRO.

[Edited on April 21, 2009 at 12:17 AM. Reason : .]

4/21/2009 12:12:50 AM

Zero Tolerance = Zero Thinking

Savana should get used to the fact that she belongs to the state.

4/21/2009 12:14:45 AM

4/23/2009 12:00:08 PM

Quote :

"Not sure why when the doctor could just be like "take 3 Tylenol instead of 2 the normal dose""

Because they can charge more money

4/23/2009 8:47:03 PM

Well at least the girl can rest assured knowing that when she turns 17, she can get an abortion pill whenever she wants....

Quote :

"ORLANDO -- The Food and Drug Administration said it will allow 17-year-olds to get the "morning-after” pill without a doctor's prescription."

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/4/22/fda_to_allow_morningafter_pill_for_17yearolds.html

4/23/2009 10:46:43 PM

thats good; last thing we need is another teen welfare mom

4/23/2009 11:42:26 PM

I kept a full bottle of ibuprofin with me in middle/HS primarily for sports injuries, or the occasional headache.


Also the Carter-Finley deal often goes beyond the normal pat down. I have found you don't have to deal with it anymore when you are no longer a student.

4/24/2009 3:48:53 AM

Quote :

"Well at least the girl can rest assured knowing that when she turns 17, she can get an abortion pill whenever she wants.... "

And honestly this is a horrible troll attempt that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion on this thread.

If you actually read the fucking article you would realize this girl is CURRENTLY 19. Excellent reading comprehension, EarthDogg.

4/24/2009 8:43:45 AM

^5 I've had Rx strength analgesics two times, once after a wreck and once after having my wisdom teeth removed. The Dr.'s told me it was a way to get the insurance company to pay for it. I had a $5 co-pay for a 30 day supply of Rx strength instead of X number of OTC bottles.

[Edited on April 24, 2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason : ]

4/24/2009 10:37:59 AM

Quote :

"In this case, it appears "Strip-search" means go into a room with a female nurse and remove your clothes except for your bottom underwear. Its the same as any normal public-school medical examination. Hardly "Traumatic"."

i disagree completely. i, for one, have never had a public school medical exam nor have i heard of one being done (besides in a DOCTOR'S office at a scheduled appointment). as a tween, probably uncomfortable with her body and having to remove all clothing but underwear, that would be extremely traumatic. i would be horrified. not to mention the embarrassment from the immediate situation as well as the lasting teasing from the other kids. i would have refused. fine, suspend me and send me home, hell if i'm undressing for school officials.

i can't believe you can't see that as traumatizing.

4/24/2009 10:44:43 AM

And further to that, having people in authority telling you to do it, I wouldn't totally expect a 13 year old to refuse. This is why teachers and administrators have such stringent rules. They are basically parents for the day and students will do basically whatever they're told.

4/24/2009 11:13:25 AM

Quote :

"Well at least the girl can rest assured knowing that when she turns 17, she can get an abortion pill whenever she wants.... Quote : "ORLANDO -- The Food and Drug Administration said it will allow 17-year-olds to get the "morning-after” pill without a doctor's prescription." http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/4/22/fda_to_allow_morningafter_pill_for_17yearolds.html"

Shouldn't you be cheering this, or are you really not the liberty lover you thought you were?

4/24/2009 2:37:03 PM

Quote :

" liberty lover "

Liberty as long as you are following good Christian Principles

4/24/2009 3:24:48 PM

they should put that shit in the town water.

4/24/2009 3:27:54 PM

Quote :

"i can't believe you can't see that as traumatizing."

yeah, fuck him.

i believe he will change his tune very quickly if it were his teenage daughter. i wonder if she came home crying and acting mentally damaged, if he would tell her

honey, that was hardly 'TRAUMATIC'.

4/24/2009 4:52:14 PM

Quote :

"i, for one, have never had a public school medical exam nor have i heard of one being done (besides in a DOCTOR'S office at a scheduled appointment). as a tween, probably uncomfortable with her body and having to remove all clothing but underwear, that would be extremely traumatic. i would be horrified. not to mention the embarrassment from the immediate situation as well as the lasting teasing from the other kids. i would have refused. fine, suspend me and send me home, hell if i'm undressing for school officials. i can't believe you can't see that as traumatizing. "

Regarding the examinations, it must be a regional thing. I don't remember the circumstances, but at several points throughout middleschool, they would rotate kids in each class through the nurses office. First the boys in one class then the girls. So about 15 kids packed in a nurses office w/ just their briefs. One-at-a-time, we would go into a side room with a lady who would take our blood pressure, check for lice, mites and rashes. Then its clothes-on and back to class.

circa. 1995. in western NY

Even NC public schools have locker rooms in middle school. You have to change and shower for PE class or sports teams.

The only thing that is remotely off about this situation is the fact that the administrative assistant was in the room. Not being a nurse or PE teacher or other school employee who kids have to expose themselves to frequently, it is slightly less appropriate for her to be present.

Nothing sexual at all in the entire encounter. We seriously do not need to be super-sensitive about skin exposure. IMHO, it's an unhealthy attitude that will do more harm than good to kids in the long run.

4/24/2009 4:55:37 PM

Hell YEAH

We should teach our kids to expose themselves to whoever asks them!!! And if it someone at school, no matter who, as long as it is someone above them (teacher, staff, admin, etc), they SHOULD comply... that's VERY HEALTHY!!!

4/24/2009 4:59:01 PM

Lumex, My daughter will be stripped by myself, my wife, a doctor (with one of the previous people attending), EMS personnel, or possibly the police if she does something REALLY stupid.

Teachers, school nurses, school administrators are not on this list. This is not their place. Changing clothes for gym, or even taking a shower is not the same as being forced to remove your clothes for adults.

4/24/2009 5:00:09 PM

Wonder if that is the line the preacher used to convince 13 yr old boys to drop their pants.

Please little timmy i must check your nether regions for the sins of the devil.

4/24/2009 5:29:35 PM

this thread is giving me a headache... any body got any tylenol? oh, shit!

4/24/2009 5:38:34 PM