there might be another thread out there about this... or maybe this belongs in Soap Box:

but i thought it was pretty cool to find this out:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/16/AR2009041603139.html


the only thing is- why does Disney continue to push the princess plot?
why can't we see more movies where there is NO prince? meaning, why does the princess + prince = happiness still pass for something we want our kids to see?? i mean, classics are classics, but it's 2009.

time to have more Lilo & Stich type movies that are more about finding a sense of belonging and purpose through family and life goals- not through finding a man. though in this new Disney movie our main character has her own job as a chef, that does not mitigate the boredom of having yet ANOTHER princess story.

kudos on one small step towards diversity though.

4/21/2009 2:23:30 PM

Good job on the race issue, but are you seriously trying to turn the prince/princess fairy tale into some kind of feminist issue?

Is Handy Manny a racist cartoon because the handyman is hispanic?

4/21/2009 2:33:32 PM

this comes across as a little "me, too!" given obama's presidency.

4/21/2009 2:45:31 PM

Y'know they call it a FAIRY TALE for a reason...

I swear some people just look for any reason to be indignant.

4/21/2009 2:45:46 PM

the reason why this is such a relevant issue (my "feminist" issue) is because we see it as so innocuous.

i mean, i'm not saying that i won't let my kids watch Disney movies because of the princess thing- but i do think it's a valid issue that girls can build this schema in their mind of what is truly important based on stories they read in books and movies they see on t.v.

bttt

4/21/2009 2:45:55 PM

well chics are more in to weddings than guys

4/21/2009 2:48:44 PM

^ and that's Disney's fault (partially)

4/21/2009 2:50:48 PM

snow black and the 7 dawgs

4/21/2009 2:55:17 PM

^^ that might be the most regoddamneddiculous thing i've ever heard

DISNEY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENT OF FAIRY TALES THAT PREDATE MOVING PICTURES

RAWRRAWRRAWR

4/21/2009 2:55:30 PM

Quote :

"snow black and the 7 dawgs"

I laughed, I feel dirty.

4/21/2009 2:59:06 PM

shave your legs

4/21/2009 3:02:48 PM

this film's been in production since 2006/07

why is there a sudden media blitz on it now?

4/21/2009 3:10:54 PM

Do girls have princess fantasies because of Disney movies or does Disney make princess movies because girls have princess fantasies? I'm going to guess the latter is true.

4/21/2009 3:24:50 PM

101 pitbulls with villain Quisha DeVilla

4/21/2009 3:27:56 PM

When are we going to get a transgendered princess?

4/21/2009 3:33:57 PM

Quote :

"the reason why this is such a relevant issue (my "feminist" issue) is because we see it as so innocuous. i mean, i'm not saying that i won't let my kids watch Disney movies because of the princess thing- but i do think it's a valid issue that girls can build this schema in their mind of what is truly important based on stories they read in books and movies they see on t.v. "

So what you're saying is love isn't truly important?

4/21/2009 3:45:18 PM

Quote :

"this film's been in production since 2006/07"

i did not know that. previous statement retracted.

4/21/2009 3:45:22 PM

wolfchica05 do you not have any greater worries in your life?

Quote :

"why does the princess + prince = happiness still pass for something we want our kids to see"

probably for the same reason that there is a love story intertwined in about 95% of films. Its to what people relate and what they evidently want to see. Its hardly insidious brainwashing.

you should reflect a little on what it is that Skack said.


On another note. I do not see why the first black disney princess should be made into news or seen as a milestone by anyone. It is what it is, take it, and move along. Providing such a focus on a trivial event is what typically turns it into something negative, whether that be by unfulfilled expectations or by animosity by a conflicting group due to over exposure.

Congrats, a black disney princess exists now but it shouldn't be trumped up as more than it is.

4/21/2009 4:40:00 PM

Quote :

"shave your legs"

4/21/2009 4:44:07 PM

^your mom

4/21/2009 4:46:16 PM

Seriously, wolfchica05? Its poorly thought out arguments like these that degrade the quality of entertainment.

And I see that you failed to bring up the fact that the last "Princess" movie (Enchanted) was an anti-"Princess" movie that brought the real world into the picture and smashed all Princess stereotypes. Hell the moral of the story was exactly what you are moaning about: "finding a sense of belonging and purpose through family and life goals".

Terrible thread, just terrible.
----

"Alex, I would like the category 'Media Hyped Diatribe' for 100."

[Edited on April 21, 2009 at 5:00 PM. Reason : ]

4/21/2009 5:00:01 PM

It's just a ploy to infect the "princess dream" into young black girls' minds, thus reducing their number of baby daddies and ultimately reducing the black population. Walt planned this a long, long time ago.

4/21/2009 5:02:57 PM

I thought this was really [old]

4/21/2009 5:17:41 PM

if you walked around the disney parks and saw all the little girls who'd had their parents pay ridiculous amounts of money to take them to one of the in-park boutiques to be dressed and decorated as a princess, you wouldnt wonder why disney's doin this. if you think about it, they've covered pretty much every other race and even many of the major nationalities. this'll give the black girls that visit the parks with their families someone to identify with.

4/21/2009 5:22:01 PM

i'm not saying that love isn't important. love is important. but girls who are extra sensitive may be more susceptible to these "role" depictions, and then more likely to marry the first guy they meet out of high school, make babies, and then put their career and or school plans on hold. in general these fairy tale depictions may teach females to value men more than education, learning, and career goals. these might be tiny, subtle messages, but it seems like they can be dangerously cumulative.

i'm just saying that maybe we would have more women in STEM (science, tech, engineering & math) if it weren't for SO many princess plots (not just in Disney, our precious Twilight may be a bit guilty of this too) and other roles in which the "happy ending" revolves around romance.

did Disney not make just as much $$ from Lilo & Stitch & Walle? i just think we need MORE of these.

BTTT
i do think it is great, and about damn time that we have an African American girl in a Disney film.

4/21/2009 6:22:33 PM

Lilo & Stitch is the only non-princess, non-Pixar Disney movie to make money. Their other attempts to stray from the formula have failed miserably. The reason Pixar flicks work so well is that Disney isn't allowed anywhere near them.

4/21/2009 6:27:31 PM

Quote :

"Lilo & Stitch is the only non-princess, non-Pixar Disney movie to make money."

Pulled that straight out of your ass huh?

4/21/2009 6:37:58 PM

LOL

4/21/2009 6:45:32 PM

I suppose I should've said in recent years when the annual WDFA feature was less often princess-based than during previous decades. For the record, Brother Bear and The Emperor's New Groove did a little bit of business, but flicks like Home on the Range, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet lost money.

4/21/2009 6:47:46 PM

^There's also Bolt.

Interestingly I heard on the radio Disney is trying to market fairies to pre-teens now because 8-11 year olds think princesses are 'for babies'.

4/21/2009 6:56:45 PM

I was under the impression that Bolt was produced by a wing of Disney that's different than Walt Disney Feature Animation, because I know it at least has some script doctoring by a couple of Pixar folks, but I could be wrong.

4/21/2009 6:59:56 PM

both produced by WDFA but Home on the Range was the last "traditionally animated" feature length until now.


Bolt is WDFA computer animated



here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Disney_theatrical_animated_features

[Edited on April 21, 2009 at 7:03 PM. Reason : link]

4/21/2009 7:01:41 PM

before everyone goes praising this step, they should wait to see the movie. if it is full of stereotypes like many of todays black sitcoms it is hardly a big step

Quote :

"the reason why this is such a relevant issue (my "feminist" issue) is because we see it as so innocuous. i mean, i'm not saying that i won't let my kids watch Disney movies because of the princess thing- but i do think it's a valid issue that girls can build this schema in their mind of what is truly important based on stories they read in books and movies they see on t.v."

jesus christ, little girls like princesses ok. its not society, they just do. when they stop playing dress up and get buzz cuts and head to the softball field, maybe someone will make a movie about that.

4/21/2009 7:08:20 PM

its the parents job to present their children, male & female, with varying content and allowing the child to find their own personal way

i was the biggest tomboy on the planet growing up. i would cry when my mom put me in a dress, my face was always dirty and i refused to let my mom so much as brush my hair

but when the little mermaid came out.... i would have sold my own soul to go (and mom took me of course)

i think the real damage is done when, say a little girl wants leggos and a parent says "no no, leggos are for boys, lets go pick out a nice doll for you instead!!"

[Edited on April 21, 2009 at 7:23 PM. Reason : kasdhjsd]

4/21/2009 7:22:22 PM

^good point

4/21/2009 8:52:09 PM

is it true that there have only been two black disney cartoon characters before this (not counting baloo)??

4/21/2009 9:19:15 PM

Quote :

" then more likely to marry the first guy they meet out of high school, make babies, and then put their career and or school plans on hold. "

My best friend did the first two (well, they met in high school) except she was a RN by the time she was 20, had her own house by the time she was 20, and had her first child by the time she was 21. She LOVED Disney movies. So... I really think it depends on the parenting.

4/21/2009 10:25:08 PM

^^ There were the crows in Dumbo!

4/21/2009 10:25:31 PM

Quote :

" then more likely to marry the first guy they meet out of high school, make babies, and then put their career and or school plans on hold. "

There is so much fail here, I don't even know where to begin.

Quote :

"but i do think it's a valid issue that girls can build this schema in their mind of what is truly important based on stories they read in books and movies they see on t.v."

Please educate me. What is truly important?

[Edited on April 21, 2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason : .]

4/21/2009 11:17:12 PM

Hahah, why doesn't disney just focus on the prince? Better yet why not have a black prince fall in love with a white prince.

I mean shoot, if they're gonna push the boundaries they may as well traumatize the children while they're at it.

4/21/2009 11:24:55 PM

This was a huge hubbub when I was working in Orlando as Ariel. The movie takes place in New Orleans because they wanted to get away from the standard princess plot. Rapunzel is the next one after this- shes going to be little and blonde and very traditional.

And you have no idea how much little girls (and a LOT of little boys even) worship the princesses. With that you get pretty hair, pretty dresses, pretty makeup. But interestingly enough, Jasmine is one of the favorites because she is so strong and independent. She had all the power in that relationship, waiting to get married until she found someone she actually loved. Same with Mulan- sure she ended up with the guy in the end, but that movie was NOT about only being happy with a man. She fought so her father didn't have to. Belle gave up everything for her dad, too. Again, NOT about only being happy because of a man- she was just so kind a person she could see inner beauty. Love was a byproduct. Cinderella, yes. Sleeping beauty, yes. Snow White didn't even really interact with the prince until he was kissing her awake (though I could be wrong, its been a while).

You are really dumbing down these movies to princess + prince = happiness.

Look at most of mainstream film- you have boy + girl = love. A good love story sells. No wonder they work that into it.

Anyway, they are due for a new princess movie. The girls club hasn't had anyone new since Mulan, I think.

4/21/2009 11:47:29 PM

Quote :

"MEDIA HYPED DIATRIBE"

4/21/2009 11:53:57 PM

WHY THE FUCK IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL FOR DISNEY TO MAKE A BLACK PRINCESS

THAT IS THE GAYEST FUCKING SHIT I HAVE EVER HEARD TO BE CALLED NEWSWORTHY

I MEAN HOLY FUCKIN SHIT WE HAVE SOME FUCKING SHEEP IN THIS COUNTRY

OMG PPL R BLACK!!!!!!!!

DUDE

WHY THE FUCK CANT PEOPLE GET OVER THAT SHIT

WHO THE FUCK CARES IF THERE EXIST DIFFERENT RACES

I GUARANTEE YOU I SEE A BLACK PERSON EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE

I DONT MAKE THREADS ON HERE TALKING ABOUT THESE EXPERIENCES

BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER

IM SICK OF SEEING ARTICLES AND SHIT LIKE THIS ALL OVER THE MEDIA

WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BEING A DIFFERENT RACE

ITS NOT LIKE BLACK PEOPLE CAN SHOOT LIGHTNING AND MEXICANS CAN FREEZE TIME

ITS NOT LIKE OTHER RACES HAVE SUPERPOWERS

OMG OBAMA IS GOING 2 FIX EVERYTHING!!!!

NO HE ISN'T

BECAUSE HE'S A FUCKING HUMAN

GOD DAMN WE LIVE IN THE STUPIDEST FUCKING COUNTRY AND I REALLY WONDER SOMETIMES HOW LONG WE CAN GO ON WITHOUT DARWIN STEPPING IN AND KILLING US ALL

BOTTOM LINE

IM TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THESE THINGS

IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER

WE ARE ALL THE EXACT FUCKING SAME

AND THAT IS THE END OF THE CAPS LOCK. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THIS ENTIRE POST, YOU ARE COMMENDABLE IN A WEIRD SORT OF WAY

4/22/2009 7:10:52 AM

haha, well said. This thread is terrible and pointless.

4/22/2009 7:43:49 AM

Quote :

"WHY THE FUCK IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL FOR DISNEY TO MAKE A BLACK PRINCESS THAT IS THE GAYEST FUCKING SHIT I HAVE EVER HEARD TO BE CALLED NEWSWORTHY I MEAN HOLY FUCKIN SHIT WE HAVE SOME FUCKING SHEEP IN THIS COUNTRY OMG PPL R BLACK!!!!!!!! DUDE WHY THE FUCK CANT PEOPLE GET OVER THAT SHIT WHO THE FUCK CARES IF THERE EXIST DIFFERENT RACES I GUARANTEE YOU I SEE A BLACK PERSON EVERY DAY OF MY LIFE I DONT MAKE THREADS ON HERE TALKING ABOUT THESE EXPERIENCES BECAUSE IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER IM SICK OF SEEING ARTICLES AND SHIT LIKE THIS ALL OVER THE MEDIA WHO THE FUCK CARES ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BEING A DIFFERENT RACE ITS NOT LIKE BLACK PEOPLE CAN SHOOT LIGHTNING AND MEXICANS CAN FREEZE TIME ITS NOT LIKE OTHER RACES HAVE SUPERPOWERS OMG OBAMA IS GOING 2 FIX EVERYTHING!!!! NO HE ISN'T BECAUSE HE'S A FUCKING HUMAN GOD DAMN WE LIVE IN THE STUPIDEST FUCKING COUNTRY AND I REALLY WONDER SOMETIMES HOW LONG WE CAN GO ON WITHOUT DARWIN STEPPING IN AND KILLING US ALL BOTTOM LINE IM TIRED OF HEARING ABOUT THESE THINGS IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER WE ARE ALL THE EXACT FUCKING SAME AND THAT IS THE END OF THE CAPS LOCK. IF YOU ACTUALLY READ THIS ENTIRE POST, YOU ARE COMMENDABLE IN A WEIRD SORT OF WAY"

FTW


Also, I move that all rants on TWW end with...

"Halleluya... holy shit! Where's the Tylenol?"

4/22/2009 7:52:33 AM

haha, yes. I absolutely love that part of the movie. Chevy Chase at his finest.

4/22/2009 7:56:03 AM

Disney Princesses never have mothers

Disney is against mother-daughter relationships

rabble rabble rabble

Quote :

"The music is by Oscar winner (and New Orleans veteran) Randy Newman. "

Quote :

"ad_icon The message that Tiana learns in the film -- Disney characters always learn something by movie's end -- is that balance is important in life. Jazz Age woman that she is, Tiana needs both love and a career to find happiness. "Her dream is not just to marry a prince," he says. "

Trailer: http://disney.go.com/disneypictures/princessandthefrog/

4/22/2009 8:25:08 AM

Quote :

"ITS NOT LIKE BLACK PEOPLE CAN SHOOT LIGHTNING AND MEXICANS CAN FREEZE TIME"

I lol'd

4/22/2009 9:05:27 AM

Quote :

""Her dream is not just to marry a prince," he says. ""

I'm currently working on a deal with the prince of Nigeria. Maybe I could introduce the two of them.

4/22/2009 10:07:50 AM

Quote :

"and then more likely to marry the first guy they meet out of high school, make babies, and then put their career and or school plans on hold."

I don't know what series of non sequiturs you took to get to this conclusion but that is absolutely incorrect. This has more to do with parenting and examples lead by the parents than anyone fantasy film a kid watches. To further highlight the point using bits of your example the same can be said for those girls who go to college for a MRS and have no intentions of working. the only difference between those girls and the ones you described were the importance and perception created by the family on going to college. The value placed on education, learning, and career is family dictated not disney.

Quote :

"i'm just saying that maybe we would have more women in STEM (science, tech, engineering & math) if it weren't for SO many princess plots"

You can place the blame where you want, but disney films do not make women overwhelmingly choose communications instead of engineering, personal interests do.

Quote :

"before everyone goes praising this step, they should wait to see the movie. if it is full of stereotypes like many of todays black sitcoms it is hardly a big step"

thank you for highlighting this. this is in part what i was attempting to convey when i said this film does not necessarily deserve praise for just including a black princess.

4/22/2009 10:21:47 AM