Callous bitch, stupid cunt, or some combination? I wish it was closer to election time so we could oust this horrible woman Dole style.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hKVhiJKrlAeZef28sPf4bXuiSRQwD97SR8CG0

Quote :

"A North Carolina congresswoman says she made a poor choice of words when she called the infamous murder of a gay Wyoming student a "hoax" to justify passing hate crimes bills. In a House debate, Republican Rep. Virginia Foxx said the 1998 death of Matthew Shepard wasn't a hate crime and shouldn't be used to justify a hate crimes bill. Foxx said Shepard was killed during a robbery. The bill approved Wednesday by the House would include acts motivated by sexual orientation under a federal hate crimes law. Foxx later said her comments didn't convey what she meant to say. She said "hoax" was "a poor choice of words," and said Shepard's killers deserved their punishment. The two men convicted in Shepard's death are serving life terms for murder."

4/30/2009 11:57:34 AM

i think stupid cunt is right on target - i couldnt believe the fucking words that came out of her mouth - a fucking hoax? jesus this lady is mental

4/30/2009 12:06:02 PM

i don't think one could positively give a good connotation to what it is she wanted to say.

4/30/2009 12:08:52 PM

Is she "special"?

4/30/2009 12:22:31 PM

the worst part, is that matthew shepard's mom was in the gallery when she said these things.

4/30/2009 12:29:23 PM

What a piece of shit.

I kind of doubt, if one of her children were brutally murdered, she would simply refer to it as being "unfortunate".

4/30/2009 12:48:25 PM

these staments baffle me. Maybe by "hoax" she meant that the murder wasn't motivated by hatred of gays and that this motivation was an artifice created by the media/gay rights groups? I don't know. Either way, she sounds like a nut.

4/30/2009 12:58:02 PM

Impeach Virginia Foxx!
Elect Vivica Fox!!!



She already knows how to kill aliens and everything.

4/30/2009 12:59:57 PM

Quote :

"Maybe by "hoax" she meant that the murder wasn't motivated by hatred of gays and that this motivation was an artifice created by the media/gay rights groups? I don't know. Either way, she sounds like a nut"

Yeah, I think that's what she was saying. Which is still fucking crazy.

4/30/2009 1:12:23 PM

This woman is about as stupid as "Hate" crime bills.

4/30/2009 1:31:19 PM

According to the Greensboro News & Record, she wasn't refering to the murder itself; she was refering to its portrayal as being motivated by gay-hate (as opposed to general sadism during a robbery-murder).

4/30/2009 1:40:22 PM

That's correct - and completely fucked up. She says it was a robbery. And I have at least some problems with the hate crimes bill idea, but...

Quote :

"Shepard was robbed, pistol whipped, tortured, tied to a fence in a remote, rural area, and left to die. McKinney and Henderson also found out his address and intended to rob his home. Still tied to the fence, Shepard was discovered eighteen hours later by Aaron Kreifels, who at first thought that Shepard was a scarecrow. At the time of discovery, Shepard was still alive, but in a coma. Shepard suffered a fracture from the back of his head to the front of his right ear. He had severe brain stem damage, which affected his body's ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature and other vital signs. There were also about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate. "

4/30/2009 1:43:06 PM

...Well, he did get robbed, didn't he?

4/30/2009 1:45:59 PM

I don't think she's disputing the fact that it was a vicious slaying.

4/30/2009 1:48:58 PM

Yes, he did. But didn't one of the guys that was convicted admit that they knew that he was gay, lured him from the bar pretending to be gay and propositioning him or something?

This was not your run of the mill robbery, like she's claiming it to have been.

4/30/2009 1:49:03 PM

^ Nobody said it was a run-of-the-mill robbery. The question is whether they murdered him because he was gay, or whether they used the fact that he was gay in order to lure him into a robbery situation. Foxx believes, as many do, that this wasn't a "hate-crime" per-se because their intent was to rob and murder, and it's not clear whether they were driven by a hatred of gays or just seized an opportunity for an easy victim.

4/30/2009 1:54:10 PM

You think they tied him up like a scarecrow just as part of the robbery? Quite obviously, while the attack itself may not have begun because he was gay (though it still likely did) it certainly went the way it did because of that. You don't rob a dude then string him up to die of exposure in normal situations.

It was a hate crime. Whether that should change the punishment, well, I waver on that.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 2:38 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 2:32:02 PM

"Certainly", huh? You're sure of that? Because many others aren't so sure, including one of the murderers ex-girlfriends.

Quote :

"In late 2004, ABC's Elizabeth Vargas reported on an investigation into the murder for the television program 20/20. Though Vargas primarily relied on personal interviews with people involved with the matter, the report was billed as exploring "New Details Emerging in the Matthew Shepard Murder."[3] At the forefront was the possibility that the murder had in fact been motivated by drugs rather than Shepard's sexual orientation. McKinney, Henderson and Kristen Price (McKinney's girlfriend) claimed in these interviews that the attack was a result of heavy drug use, a robbery and a beating gone awry.[3] Price, in her interview with Vargas, ultimately openly remarked: "I do not think it was a hate crime at all. I never did."[3]"

4/30/2009 2:55:00 PM

Quote :

"attack was a result of heavy drug use,"

As in the attackers were on drugs? thats hardly an excuse, its not a hate crime because they were on drugs? yeah right.

Quote :

"a robbery and a beating gone awry"

what the hell does this mean. I feel like most robberies and beating are "awry"

4/30/2009 3:43:15 PM

2 good points. Plus, the robber's girlfriend? Oh yes, a trustworthy source if ever there was one.

4/30/2009 4:14:33 PM

If someone kills someone why does it matter if they did it because they didn't like the victim personally or because the victim was gay/black/jewish/whatever? Its just as wrong in both cases, so why does there need to be a seperate law?

4/30/2009 4:37:53 PM

Maybe the punishment for an accidental killing should be different than that of one motivated by hate?

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 4:45 PM. Reason : e]

4/30/2009 4:45:23 PM

Her own words:

4/30/2009 4:45:50 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the punishment for an accidental killing should be different than that of one motivated by hate?"

No one is arguing that. But a murder for greed, lust, or envy should be punished equally with murder for hate.

4/30/2009 4:49:10 PM

Oh I agree. I was just responding to the post above me. Talking points

4/30/2009 4:50:57 PM

Accidental deaths should be treated differently, but thats not what we're talking about. This was done purposefully.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 4:51 PM. Reason : a]

4/30/2009 4:51:14 PM

Quote :

"Maybe the punishment for an accidental killing should be different than that of one motivated by hate?"

No shit. It's called manslaughter versus murder.

Shepard was obviously murdered. The question is whether it was motivated by homophobia or as part of the robbery, or both. A separate question is whether we should punish perpetrators of "hate-crimes" worse than other run-of-the-mill murderers. A lot of people see hate-crime legislation as unecessary and capricious in application.

4/30/2009 4:54:25 PM

Quote :

"I was just responding to the post above me. "

I think you misread what he said then, because he made no mention of accidental "murder".

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 4:57:19 PM

my bad

4/30/2009 4:58:55 PM

This guy gets on my nerves sometimes, but I'm glad Rep. Foxx made it on his worst person's list. The first person he mentions seems none to bright either.

4/30/2009 6:45:30 PM

This thread is bullshit. How about you quote Foxx verbatim. She never said that his murder is a hoax, only the notion that it was motivated by homophobia.

4/30/2009 6:57:42 PM

i'll never understand why murdering someone because you hate them because they are part of a protected class is any worse than murdering someone just because, but this woman is a bitch

4/30/2009 7:03:05 PM

Quote :

"Quite obviously, while the attack itself may not have begun because he was gay (though it still likely did) it certainly went the way it did because of that."

With reference to the bolded part, is there any proof of that?

Have there NEVER been any robberies like that, where the victim was tortured and killed? I remember reading news articles of similar break-in robberies, where whole families are killed, or a couple is sexually molested and/or tortured before being killed.

How can ANYBODY make a definitive statement without proof?

Anybody has proof? I am very curious now.

4/30/2009 7:14:05 PM

According to one of the two criminals they knew he was gay and found him by pretending gay. I don't believe they ever admitted to killing him because he was gay though, so I don't know how you prove that, and that's what (I think) Rep. Foxx is trying to say. You're creating a piece of legislation named after someone who may or may not been killed for purposes corresponding with with the legislation itself. I don't think calling that a "hoax" is offensive to shepard or his friends/family because she still acknowledged that it was a brutal murder. She's only pointing out the proponents of the bill are trying to use a high profile name as a smoke screen for what is actually being passed.

4/30/2009 7:33:35 PM

There are only two ways to prove it:

1) If they admitted that's why they killed him
2) If someone recorded their conversations pre-murder, during murder, or post-murder where they say they are going to kill him/killing him/killed him because he was gay

Other then that, there is no way to prove it. The fact that they knew he was gay and pretended to be gay to lure him and then kill him is weak evidence, but no where near proof, or even "convincing/solid evidence".

4/30/2009 7:52:00 PM

Oh, and what she said also cannot be said unless there is proof. She said they were NOT killed because they were gay. How does she know? Can she read the killers' minds from hundreds of miles away?

Anyway, her mistake is not as bad as the mistake of those who say that he WAS killed because he was gay. Because these people used that mistake to make something out of it, a new law.

There is no way to know unless they confess to that. End of that story. So, making a law out that murder was wrong, as there was no proof that the victim was killed because he was gay.

Now, whether such a law should be exist or not is another issue. I say no. Intentional murder should be punished equally. There should be additional punishment for the way the murder was committed, i.e., slow painful murder, but not for the motivation.

4/30/2009 8:06:44 PM

^ except that any good prosecutor is going to tell you that motivation is an integral part of getting someone convicted. will a hate crimes bill stop someone from committing an act in the heat of the moment? of course not. but it will provide justice to the family of someone who's being singled out based on a characteristic.

oh yeah, if you're posing as a gay person in order to rob them, and then later murder them... you can't demonstrably separate motivations between those two acts.

4/30/2009 11:05:35 PM

Quote :

"but it will provide justice to the family of someone who's being singled out based on a characteristic."

How does giving punishment to something that is already a crime somehow generate justice where justice did not previously exist? it is needless legislation, and, frankly it is thought-policing. It's wrong, plain and simple. Murder is murder is murder. Assault is assault is assault.

If this is the bill I think it is, then it is even worse than that. It's a fucking infringement of 1st Amendment rights. And it is based on falsified data. it will lead to witch-hunts and the suppression of speech.

4/30/2009 11:10:06 PM

Foxx was very clumsy in her speech.

But this legislation doesn't deserve to be resurrected.

The fed gov't should not be getting involved with murder cases. Those cases should stay under state jurisdiction.

And there is no need to create special sub-groups of Americans, whose members warrant extra consideration that other citizens don't receive. The penalty for murdering a gay shouldn't be any different than the one for murdering your spouse, or a bank employee, or your kids etc.

"Hate-Crime" penalties are pointless. How much hatred must you have before the crime is a hate-crime? What is the threshold? How do you measure it?
What if you hate someone intensely, but don't act on it...just let them know? Are we to be criminally judged on our personal thoughts?

4/30/2009 11:12:34 PM

Quote :

"oh yeah, if you're posing as a gay person in order to rob them, and then later murder them... you can't demonstrably separate motivations between those two acts."

As I said, there is no proof he was murdered because he was gay.

They posed as gay to lure him out. If you want to lure a car lover out of a bar, you will tell them you have a Ferrari outside they want you to see, won't you? That would be the easiest way to do it. If you want to lure out an animal rights activist, you will pose as one.

The MIGHT have killed him because he was gay, but there is no way to know short of the killers admitting to that.

4/30/2009 11:54:13 PM

i didnt really care until i realized she is in NC which made me carlface in sadness

5/1/2009 12:08:11 AM

The concept of a hate crime is so fucking stupid, but then so is this vapid cunt for suggesting it was a hoax.

And

Quote :

"The MIGHT have killed him because he was gay, but there is no way to know short of the killers admitting to that."

c'mon...they beat him to an inch of his life,tortured him, and tied him to a fence and left him to die. Use some common sense here. Why would they target him and pretend that they were gay? You think they randomly just picked a dude, figured out he was gay, figured that that would be the best way to lure him out and kill him?

But either way it doesn't matter, they weren't convicted of a hate crime because it didn't exist in Wyoming at the time.

5/1/2009 9:25:15 AM

The killers attempted to use the bullshit "gay panic defense" to say that Shepard's sexual advances (because, you know, he thought they were gay) caused them to kill him. They basically admitted it was a motivating factor by saying that.

Barney Frank on the hate crimes bill:

5/1/2009 9:25:33 AM

The gay panic defense is just as bullshit as hate crime law

5/1/2009 9:44:37 AM

Supplanter,

How did I know that Olbermann would call for Foxx to resign? KO is such a predictable tool.

5/1/2009 10:30:46 AM

Yeah, like I said he gets on my nerves sometimes & can be overly predictable. But Foxx deserved every bit of calling out on this that she gets.

5/1/2009 6:34:27 PM

I hate this woman.

My dad is a county manager in her district, he doesn't care for her either.


And I have a friend that is actually her personal driver for when she comes back to her district. They recruit App State MPA students for that job.

5/1/2009 7:34:00 PM

Something I like about Maddow is that she is both respectful to guests & goes into details & explanation about what she is discussing. Between her & her guest, their explanation for the reason for hate crimes legislation isn't to be thought police so much as to make extra federal resources available to crimes designed to terrorize a given community rather than targeting sole an individual, and to provide means for higher ups to get involved when local police departments/prosecutors opt to not get involved due to personal prejudices. Not to take a strong position on hate crime legislation myself, but I can certainly understand that there are some rural communities where authority figures might have ingrained prejudices themselves that would make finding legal recourse more difficult.

But I think whether or not one supports hate crimes legislation is independent of how unprofessional & inept Rep. Foxx has proven to be. And as someone who was born in Winston, & grew up in Mt Airy, I am disgusted by how she has represented my home town area.

[Edited on May 1, 2009 at 7:39 PM. Reason : .]

5/1/2009 7:36:53 PM

^

I don't think it's independent. This behavior is enabled by her constituency, which no doubt will welcome her as a home-town hero. She feels free to be openly incendiary towards gays because her political base likes that.

This is a natural result of two things: one, the ignorant, backwoods swamp dwellers in darkest rural North Carolina who can't see past their own noses. Two, the insane gerrymandering (look at the 12th congressional) that tends to create homogeneous districts that elect crazies like Foxx.

5/1/2009 9:43:41 PM

She was actually the product of a really screwy Republican primary battle, in which the 2 main contenders took each other out. Everyone voted against Vernon Robinson in the runoff. Of course the screwy districts make it an uphill climb for any Dem challenge.

5/1/2009 10:06:02 PM