Quote :

"The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey. More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/30/religion.torture/index.html

Kinda Ironic that your moral Evangelical Christians who act that their pious lifestyles makes them superior also are the ones that care less about torturing suspected terrorists.

I guess since god does not like towel heads they can be water boarded to the cows come home.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 8:27 PM. Reason : k]

4/30/2009 8:27:01 PM

This isn't surprising in the least.

4/30/2009 8:59:10 PM

I dont consider waterboarding torture. So im all for it. So if pouring water on someones face saves lives... go for it.

4/30/2009 9:01:51 PM

not surprising, really....

kind of like the studies that show the more religious and evangelical one is, the more aggressive they and their families are with end-of-life prolonging interventions. It flies in the face of logic that the people who are most sure of where they will be going immediately after death will spend the most money and time living in pain just to stay on this wretched earth (at least compared to Paradise). But then again, evangelicals aren't really known for their logical thought processes.


^ nice rationalization.
it's not "torture", so you can do it. If you don't define inflicting intense pain and suffering on others as "torture", but just as "something that must be done", then i'm all for it.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 9:04 PM. Reason : ,]

4/30/2009 9:02:48 PM

Quote :

"I dont consider waterboarding torture. So im all for it. So if pouring water on someones face saves lives... go for it."

That's because you're fucking ignorant.

4/30/2009 9:03:16 PM

Quote :

"pouring water on someones face"

lol i'd say thats a bit of an oversimplified definition

4/30/2009 9:06:41 PM

It's Enhanced Interrogation Techniques

4/30/2009 9:08:19 PM

Newsflash: People who put serious stock in the racist transcripts of ancient tribesmen more prone to be barbaric and short-sighted.

4/30/2009 9:23:06 PM

Quote :

"If you don't define inflicting intense pain and suffering on others as "torture", "

Could cover a lot of professions there. With waterboarding is the person being subjected to it in real physical danger? I dont think so. Its not like they are cutting off fingers or limbs. I gave my opinion, it differs from yours so clearly Im a moron/racist/insert insult... got it fellas. From the party of free speech and tolerance. All in a thread trying to illustrate hypocrisy... gotta LOVE irony.

But carry on with your endless debates on how we treated 3 people. THREE

4/30/2009 9:29:22 PM

I tried a bit of searching to find their data, but was unsuccessful.

I would hypothesize that this is a case of Simpson's Paradox, due to not controlling for political party or ideology in the statistics being reported here.

The actual press release can be found here: http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/510.pdf

What I suspect is happening (which again, can't be confirmed without more detail of their data) is that those who attend church at least once a week are considerably more likely to be Republican than those who do not, and as reported in the press release above, 64% of Republicans replied that torture is "often" or "sometimes" justified, compared to 36% for Democrats.

I imagine the true phenomenon is that Republicans are more likely to support torture than Dems and Independents, so the results among church-goers are largely due to church-goers being more demographically skewed towards Republicans than non-church-goers. If you compare support for torture among church-going Republicans and non-church-going Republicans (or between church-going Dems and non-church-going Dems), I would imagine the margin of difference would shrink substantially.

4/30/2009 9:30:31 PM

Quote :

"Could cover a lot of professions there. With waterboarding is the person being subjected to it in real physical danger? I dont think so. Its not like they are cutting off fingers or limbs. I gave my opinion, it differs from yours so clearly Im a moron/racist/insert insult... got it fellas. From the party of free speech and tolerance. All in a thread trying to illustrate hypocrisy... gotta LOVE irony. But carry on with your endless debates on how we treated 3 people. THREE"

How about subject yourself to waterboarding you chicken-hawk piece of shit?

4/30/2009 9:32:02 PM

i wonder how many snakes with an odd number of scales support terrorism as opposed to even numbered

4/30/2009 9:32:12 PM

^^^^ you're rationalizing immoral and unethical actions. plain and simple.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 9:32 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 9:32:33 PM

Lets not get ahead of ourselves: forty-two percent of non-church goers still said they support torture.

Forty-two versus fifty-four is not what I would consider a large difference, especially when you're trying to ascribe the difference to something as closely-held as religion (or political affiliation).

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 9:33 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 9:32:37 PM

Quote :

"you're rationalizing immoral and unethical actions. plain and simple. "

Prochoice?

4/30/2009 9:37:18 PM

eyedrb probably believes that LIBERALS want to kick HARDWORKING AMERICANS (read: whites) out of their homes and to install terrorists in there instead in the name of TOLERANCE.

People oppose waterboarding not because they want to give terrorists an easy time you fucking jack-ass. They oppose waterboarding because it's torture, plain and simple, and because torture doesn't produce reliable intelligence.

4/30/2009 9:39:03 PM

^^ i think its ok to waterboard a fetus, but not for information

4/30/2009 9:40:27 PM

Quote :

"With waterboarding is the person being subjected to it in real physical danger? I dont think so. Its not like they are cutting off fingers or limbs."

That's a motherfuckingly purposefully ambiguous definition. WTF is "real physical danger"??? Just because it doesn't leave a mark on the body, it is not torture, right?

What I said about waterboarding in another thread a few days back when someone said it is not torture:

Quote :

"if it is not torture, it is neither physically nor psychologically painful. so would you like to have a 20 min session to prove to us it is not torture, let alone 6 sessions a day?"

Quote :

"Oh, and if it is not torture, why would the guy beg to confess after just 2 minutes of said treatment?"

In response to the idiotic comment

Quote :

"Ytsejam: Water boarding is about a 0.1 on a torture scale of 0 to 10."

I said:

Quote :

"Who the FUCK are YOU to decide where it lies on the scale? Intensity of pain is not something that is objective. I have a high tolerance for blunt force pain, but when it comes to drowning, I have a mortal fear of it. So for me, waterboarding would be at a 3 or 4 on the scale, whereas being whipped might only be at a 1. Everybody is different. Some can tolerate heat, some can not. Some cold, some not. So the pussies (CIA AGENTS) lasted only 14 seconds, but they are so TUFF they subjected others to minutes of it, several times per session, and then sessions repeated several times a day."

And finally

Quote :

"theDuke866: How in the hell are you arguing that waterboarding isn't torture? Waterboarding is absolutely torture, and if you can't see that, I invite you to meet me in my backyard by my garden hose for an enlightening experience."

[emphasis original]

Aren't you a doctor?

I guess if they did another study, it would show that the more highly educated you are, especially in the life sciences, the more likely you are support torture.

4/30/2009 9:47:55 PM

the bible is evidence for and against (slavery, homosexuality, war, insert whatever)

hooray

at least america was founded on capitalism

4/30/2009 9:51:18 PM

Quote :

"eyedrb probably believes that LIBERALS want to kick HARDWORKING AMERICANS (read: whites) out of their homes and to install terrorists in there instead in the name of TOLERANCE."

That is amazing. You truely have a gift. You should use it if that career in dungeons and dragons doesnt pan out for you. Well I guess they are related. One world of made up bullshit for another. Either way, quite the imagination you have.

Volex, I actually laughed at that.. is that bad?

But im awaiting agentlions response.

4/30/2009 9:53:35 PM

so if something causes me mental/physical anguish is it torture?

4/30/2009 9:55:37 PM

are you a christian?

4/30/2009 9:55:55 PM

i won't answer you unless you ask me 3 times, because its mentally torturing for me to hear someone repeat the same question 3 times


[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM. Reason : austin powers was a christian? maybe he was in the 42%]

4/30/2009 9:58:28 PM

Quote :

"so if something causes me mental/physical anguish is it torture?"

Well its making sense now. If libs believe that is the definition, that must be why they dont want to work seeing how it could be tech. torture. (im joking) I had type that for the slow ones.


Hey OEP, thanks for the recap. Like ive said. I have my opinion, you have yours. I can live with that. And posting anothers opinion doesnt really make YOURS any more factual. Im sure I can find another posters quote that doenst think its torture.. would that sway you? See my point?

4/30/2009 10:02:51 PM

Quote :

"How about subject yourself to waterboarding you chicken-hawk piece of shit? "

From time to time I think to myself I want to try it out, just to see what it's like, until I am bending over in the shower to wash my feet and some water runs into my mouth and nose and causes me to snap upright (sometimes smashing my head into the handle). If my reaction in such a simple situation is like that, I can only imagine what its like to be tilted at a negative angle, had your eyes covered and your nose and mouth covered with cloth, held down, and had water poured on your face in a simulated drowning is like. For anyone that seems to be so coy about us using this on people, I'd like to see them withstand even 15 seconds of it and then re-render their judgment of it.

4/30/2009 10:04:14 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to see them withstand even 15 5 seconds of it and then re-render their judgment of it."

(even CIA agents lasted a maximum of 14 seconds)

4/30/2009 10:07:14 PM

Quote :

"This isn't surprising in the least."

4/30/2009 10:07:41 PM

Quote :

"Could cover a lot of professions there. With waterboarding is the person being subjected to it in real physical danger? I dont think so. Its not like they are cutting off fingers or limbs. I gave my opinion, it differs from yours so clearly Im a moron/racist/insert insult... got it fellas. From the party of free speech and tolerance. All in a thread trying to illustrate hypocrisy... gotta LOVE irony. But carry on with your endless debates on how we treated 3 people. THREE "

waterboarding is torture. You support torture. Why is that so hard to admit? Would you think twice to condemn the Chinese for doing the same thing? Do you think the executions we committed post WWII for waterboarding were wrong?

Considering our country already engages in morally questionable practices, the real question you should ask yourself is why do you see torture as one of those things we should accept?

4/30/2009 10:07:41 PM

Fail boat, im not being coy about it at all. Im just keeping it in perspective. No I dont care to experience it. Make that number 2 million and 2 of unpleasant things I dont ever want to experience. However, if you all insist on being relative, then Id rather be waterboarded than have my fingers cut off, sodomized, lose a million dollars, watch womens basketball, etc.

again moron, I have my opinion. Simply stating it over and over again doesnt make it factual. And neither does lying about executions by the way. Get that from the huffington post?


Actually, Id like to hear whatever evidence you have moron.
[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:12 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ..]

4/30/2009 10:09:48 PM

Lemme guess, your only reasoning for being in support of it is the alleged cracking it did of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the information we supposedly got from it? I find it a bit odd that he held up 183 times and finally cracked. And he is the only person we've managed to get good info out of, assuming the lies the Bush admin told us are in fact true.

4/30/2009 10:15:33 PM

In my "opinion" smashing somebody with a hammer isn't assault. Prove me wrong, libs. *smug*

4/30/2009 10:16:46 PM

eyedr - what's your response to this:

Quote :

"Article 1. 1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions. 2. This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application. Article 2. ... 2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture. ... [- signed: Ronald Reagan]"

was Reagan just simply wrong for signing it?
should he have not signed it?
Even though he did sign it, should the US not abide by it now?
What's the justification for not abiding by it?

4/30/2009 10:19:13 PM

We did it on 3 people. THREE

You dont like it? Fine, Im OK with that.

The truth is this doesnt affect ANY of us. Except those people in LA that it may have saved... but lets not count them.

I understand what it does to our "image" but its not like we are grabbing every asshole off the street and waterboarding him.. Lets gain some perspective.


Agent, still didnt answer my question.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:20 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 10:19:43 PM

Quote :

" again moron, I have my opinion"

Your opinion is wrong though. You support torture.

What WOULDN'T you support us doing in an interrogation?

4/30/2009 10:20:21 PM

Quote :

"Repeatedly nearly drowning someone is just 'unpleasant'."

-- eyedrb

4/30/2009 10:23:46 PM

I wonder what percentage of people who go to mosques are in favor of blowing up non-Muslims

just a friendly query

4/30/2009 10:25:24 PM

that's a legitimate question, and i am sure the answer will be very appalling, but it has nothing to do with the cia torturing suspected terrorists.

4/30/2009 10:27:18 PM

Waterboarding? Pffffft! Weak sauce... Hell is the epitomy and quintessence of eternal soul torture.

Did they interview a bunch of Southern Baptists? Gary the brickyard preacher?

4/30/2009 10:29:14 PM

^^^ probably similar to the christians who support blowing up non-christians.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:30 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 10:29:55 PM

^^^indeed it doesnt, but it can show that overzealous people of all religions and cultures can be detrimental, whereas the language of the thread title seems to be more of a jab at Christians specifically

^I highly doubt that

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:31 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 10:30:38 PM

^ based on what?

also, the thread is worded the way it is, because Christianity is the predominant religion in America. It holds a special place in our collective heart.

Or are Christians not suppose to hold themselves to a higher standard than non-Christians?

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:39 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 10:37:32 PM

Quote :

"based on what? "

A different ass than the one you pulled out your statement from.

I dont remember seeing christians flying planes into buildings or suicide bombers.. so maybe it might have a point. But carry on fellas. Good talk russ.

Wait I had to ask one more question. So you libs are against putting someone through pain/torture/simulating drowning right... So how do you justify cutting up infants that can survive outside the womb? It seems your moral compasses are all over the place.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:44 PM. Reason : .]

4/30/2009 10:39:59 PM

Quote :

"probably similar to the christians who support blowing up non-christians."

Quote :

"I highly doubt that"

Quote :

"based on what"

based on the empirical evidence that there are a lot more documented cases of muslims blowing up non muslims (and muslims at the same time, great strategy guys), than christians blowing up non-christians

you can point to the oklahoma city bombing or whatever you want (even though that was allegedly anti government, not anti non-christan) but if you even slightly keep up with world news in the middle east, you obviously know that plenty of muslim radicals have partaken in blowing shit up


[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason : cleaned up]

4/30/2009 10:43:12 PM

Quote :

"President Barack Obama said Wednesday night that waterboarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects could have been obtained by other means."

Really? What other means? Perhaps Obama's personal charm renders the terrorist unable to resist?

4/30/2009 10:44:06 PM

Explain to me, libertarian, why the government should be able to torture somebody?

4/30/2009 10:44:44 PM

those terrorists better be glad they aren't fetuses, then we'd teach 'em

4/30/2009 10:45:21 PM

^^^^, ^^^^^

Your questions said "support" those things, not commit those things.

Unless i'm mistaken, Christians by and large don't care too much about the hundred thousand or so innocent muslim deaths in Iraq. That is support.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 10:46:00 PM

Ok forgive my misspeaking moron, I wonder what percentage of people who go to mosques support blow up Non-Muslims as opposed to how many christians who go to church support blow up Non-Christians

4/30/2009 10:47:44 PM

Quote :

"I dont remember seeing christians flying planes into buildings or suicide bombers.. so maybe it might have a point. But carry on fellas. Good talk russ. Wait I had to ask one more question. So you libs are against putting someone through pain/torture/simulating drowning right... So how do you justify cutting up infants that can survive outside the womb? It seems your moral compasses are all over the place. "

So you admit that torture is just like slicing up an infant, but you still support torture?

sick

^ the number for both of those is well south of 1% i would venture.

[Edited on April 30, 2009 at 10:49 PM. Reason : ]

4/30/2009 10:48:18 PM

imma set up this stupid thread

4/30/2009 10:49:23 PM